Canada's Conservatives Misled Voters With Massive Robocall Operation 401
choongiri writes "Elections Canada has just traced thousands of illegal phone calls made during the 2011 federal election to a company that worked for the Conservative Party across the country. The automated VOIP 'robocalls' appeared to be designed to stop non-Conservative voters from casting ballots in key ridings by falsely telling voters that the location of their polling stations had changed, causing them to go to the wrong location on election day. This news casts serious doubt on the legitimacy of Canada's Government. The Conservatives narrowly won their 'majority' by 6,201 votes in 14 ridings, with only 39% of the popular vote." For those as unfamiliar with the term "riding" in this context as I was, here's Wikipedia's explanation.
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
wtf?
surely some jailtime is in order? shouldn't be _that_ hard to figure out where the calls originated from(someone paid for them in some form.. even if they were done with skype-out or whatever).
sincerely some guy.
Perish the thought. (Score:5, Insightful)
They also made significant changes to the election system and advertised it poorly, several years ago. You Americans in the audience might be familiar with this sort of tactic: requiring forms of identification that younger and poorer voters were less likely to have, in the name of combating electoral fraud. I worked the polls that year and it was a real goddamn treat explaining to people from all walks of life that they couldn't vote because they didn't bring the right ID. Some came back later. Some didn't. The whole thing was an awful bottleneck.
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:3, Insightful)
Some calls apparently were from people claiming to be with the Liberal party, acting rude, calling at very late/early hours
Interesting, it seems like more and more of the world population is wanting more libertarian, open minded, moderate type leaders - rather than the old guard, which to me seem to be in the exact same place as the likes of the **AA in the music world - grasping and clutching at grains of sand as they trickle through their fingers. As they get more and more desperate, their methods and tactics get more and more dirty, desperate and despickable.
Serious, but the governement is legit either way (Score:2, Insightful)
It is a stretch to say that this "casts serious doubt on the legitimacy of Canada's Government'. It is disturbing and not inside baseball.
However, the government needs 154 seats to form a majority in the 308 seat lower house and it has 165, an 11 seat margin. Even if they lost all 14 of these narrowly contested ridings, they would still have had a minority government.
How many were fooled by these calls? Certainly some were, even hundreds might have been. But enough to flip more than one or two seats the other way? I doubt it.
Re:Even more disturbingly (Score:5, Insightful)
Canadians don't elect governments. They elect representatives. If more Canadians figured that out, we'd have much better governments.
Re:Serious, but the governement is legit either wa (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a big difference between a minority and a majority government. And who's to say what the effect was? There was large scale elections fraud by the party that won the election, thus, their right to govern is in question. Even if no ridings were swayed, whoever was involved violated the elections act and, if they were elected, are in office illegally.
Re:Legitimacy? (Score:5, Insightful)
No real Canadian actually thinks they are legitimate.
So what percentage of the Canadian population are "real", and what percentage are fake?
I suppose I'm neither, since I'm not a Canadian. I was born about 50 miles south of the border. But, as the saying goes, some of my best friends are Canadian. I'd like to know how to figure out if they're real or fake.
Re:Serious, but the governement is legit either wa (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone who is willing to break the law to try to fix the vote isn't likely going to care about any other law. Properly, the law should be written so that if any malfeasance like this is proven, the election results are vacated and a new election run.
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps Crimeminister Harper can be the first guest in the new superjails.
Tough on crime. Remember that phrase, Cons.
This is why religion should not be in govt. (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunately we, in the states (and many other countries?) have also seen this sort of thing.
The Ohio elections were tainted by claims of electronic voting irregularities (don't know what became of that) and I believe several republican operatives have been convicted of similar phone hacking activities. I could go on about the hypocrisy of republican claims of voter fraud (despite ANY actual verified proof) which their solutions have the well documented effect of disenfranchising the poor and minorities. (Notice how many times those who warn you not to trust anyone are, themselves, the ones you shouldn't trust?).
Still, it's evident that the root cause is their religious self-righteousness these people feel that allows them to justify blatantly illegal acts (to only themselves fortunately, we aren't Indonesia yet!). If you honestly believed that you, or your party is doing the work of God (unlike say Obama who Rick Sanctorum says follows a "false theology"), you'd also do ANYTHING to guide you, your family and your country into the arms of God. I suspect some of their moral "leaders" don't really believe this and are just using these issues for personal gain just like they hypocritically advocate economic policies which they know will hurt the average republican voter (but pays off handsomely for them; isn't that right Rush Limbaugh?)
Maybe that's why the founding fathers put such a clear line between Church and State (please read Jefferson's exact, specific, detailed words on the subject before claiming otherwise).
Of course what's really scary are the number of evangelicals who are HOPING that the end times are here and are willing, again, to do anything to bring it about. My American Jewish friend thinks that is the only explanation for the fact that the fate of Israel completely controls American foreign policy (in the last republican debate, all the candidates indicated defending it was of the highest national priority). He cannot imagine that the Jewish lobby, significant as it is, could possibly generate that level of support.
Our only hope, if we get another Republican into office, is that they are one of the hypocritical ones and they understand that blowing up the world won't automatically send them (and their families!) to Heaven. Fortunately, all these religious "leaders" all over the world seem to understand this; notice any high ranking Ayatollahs volunteering for suicide belt duty?
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
hahahahaha.
Like what happened in the states, like in Florida, where dead people just happen pop out of the grave and vote, or where primarily Democrat-voting districts just happen to get robocalled with the wrong date, time and/or location to vote [or that you need a passport and multiple other forms of picture ID to vote].
As long as the entire voting process, as well as the government in general, is under the direct control of the political parties that are permitted to run, every so-called 'investigation' will continue to result in...nothing happening.
Re:This is why religion should not be in govt. (Score:1, Insightful)
Yep, the Republicans, who ended slavery and had to fight the DNC for 30 years to get the civil rights act passed are the ones opressing miniorities. Looking up it appears that specifically Robery Byrd (D-WV) filibustered the Civil Rights act himself and remained a star member of the DNC for the remainder of his life.
ACORN was CONVICTED of 15 counts of voter fraud in 2010, yet you are making the claim that Republicans (who you don't list specifics) are the ones responsible for all US voter fraud.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/23/the-voter-fraud-hall-of-shame-milwaukee-voter-fraud-conviction-makes-acorn%E2%80%99s-2010-total-at-least-15/
So to summarize, you lied about which party has historically oppressed minorities. You also lied about who is convicted of voter fraud consistantly in the US. How's it feel to be so completely biased and obsessed that you actually support people who fund voter fraud and support those who did their best to opporess miniorites throughout the last century? If we didn't have jackasses like you supporting such corruption and opporession we might be able to make progress ending it, but sadly you will continue to fight tooth and nail to keep it in place.
Re:This is why religion should not be in govt. (Score:1, Insightful)
This is why religion should not be in govt.
What...the fuck? How the hell did you come to this conclusion?
Still, it's evident that the root cause is their religious self-righteousness
No it isn't evident from this article in the least. This article has absolute shitall to do with religion.
I can't even fathom the leap of logic you went from "Conservatives in Canada misled voters" to "Religion is ruining government." I won't say that religion is or is not ruining government, I just have to say that IN THE CONTEXT AT HAND, you are blowing out your ass to spout off anti-religion rhetoric.
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Legitimacy? (Score:1, Insightful)
Low vote rates actually.
The only province that did not vote Conservative was Quebec because we saw through his lies (and frankly, between the canadian DMCA, his worthless "Quebec is a nation only if it's in Canada" motion and his anti-democratic statement of:"as long as we are in power, Quebec will never seperate from Canada" (never mind that a provincial referendum is... well... provincial mater).
Oh and bonus (here comes the rant):
Since he gained his majority, Harper did the following:Pissing on French(Nominating an unilingual juge), Pissing on French(Nominating a english/italian communication head for his office), Pissing on French(Nominating an unilingual General Auditor... note: General Auditor of Canada has for MANDATORY requirement: Must speak english AND french), Pissing on Quebec(Replacing the painting from a Quebec artist with the Queen's Face), Pissing on Quebec(Royal navy, Royal Infantry, Royal pain in the ass), Pissing on Quebec(Forcing us to pay the cost of the Queen's birthday), Pissing on democracy(Lawful Access), Pissing on democracy(Using his powers to limit the discussion on every laws he pass... said power are supposed to be used only in extreme circumstance), Pissing on everybody(greenpeace is a terrorist organisation according to him), Pissing on democracy(if your against Keystone XL then your a traitor). There's others (like pissing on common sense: Making an omnibus law on crime(that looks like something you would find in Texas) that pushes 100% of the cost to the provinces and calling it "Though on Crime".
If there's ONE danger on canada's oh so sacred unity it's him, Hell even Piere Elliot Trudeau's son(PET was the guy that brought to Canada the stupid notion of Multi-culturalism, he was also the guy that pissed on Democracy and on Quebec by declaring marshal law and getting illegitimate data on the PQ back in the 70s) said that he might actually support seperating Quebec from Canada if Harper transform Canada in a cross-breed between China, USA and Orwell's Ociania...
PS: sorry for the rant... I really need to make a vlog for that thing :p
Torqued Headline? (Score:3, Insightful)
The headline is seriously torqued, bordering on libel.
The Conservative Party of Canada hasn't be proven to have committed any crime.
The robocaller company (RackNine), is "Conservative" connected by virtue of having Conservative Party of Canada as a customer and I guess being based in the west.
The facts haven't come out yet, so we shouldn't throw stones.
It is plausible that the robo calls were done by one or two people. Canada is a bilingual country, no voice actor is required.
It seems highly unlikely that this was funded and organized by the Conservative party of Canada as an official part of their strategy.
Re:Canadian political system is broken... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd have agreed before, but not now. If you can't see the difference between Harper and any Liberal, you have to be blind.
Re:Blame Canada (Score:4, Insightful)
American mainstream news generally doesn't give a shit about international events unless it involves celebrities, celebrities dying, normal people dying en masse, or distant places that the government claims to be warring with or policing. Canadian politics simply aren't worth column inches, unless it directly affects the States or the media's ability to follow a story.
You are very correct. And you know why that is? It's because mainstream America generally doesn't give a shit about international events unless it involves your list of exceptions (whether we should or shouldn't give a shit is another debate). The media is simply giving their customers what they want. Believe me, the day Canadian politics becomes interesting to average Americans will be the day you can't swing a dead cat in Ottawa without hitting a Fox News truck.
So Racknine is a push version of 4chan? (Score:2, Insightful)
This company seems incredibly stupid. Who gives some stranger with a credit card access to a giant phone bank that can call millions of people and deliver an arbitrary voice message uploaded by cell phone?
Insanity. They're just asking to be used as part of a giant DoS attack. Suppose the listed numbers were for hospitals, airports, or government offices?
Re:Legitimacy? (Score:4, Insightful)
"No True Scotsman," etc.
40% of us think the Conservative Party is legitimate. You don't have to like them, but it's a huge mistake to pretend their supporters aren't "Canadian" enough.
Re:Perish the thought. (Score:5, Insightful)
Electoral fraud is electoral fraud, no matter who perpetrates it. In a democratic nation, it should be a major crime against society as a whole, next only to treason.
Re:This is why religion should not be in govt. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, the Republicans, who ended slavery and had to fight the DNC for 30 years to get the civil rights act passed are the ones opressing miniorities.
Yes, because there's absolutely no difference between Republicans of 150 years ago, those of 60 years ago, and those of today. None whatsoever. After all, they're called the same, and they still have their elephant, so clearly it's exactly the same people thinking exactly the same way!
Re:The posting title could be libellous (Score:5, Insightful)
In all likelihood, this is either the work of a rogue agent or even a well-intentioned mistake.
This is possible, but not "all likelihood. The Harper government has already shown a deep disrespect for democracy in several ways, and through several actions. Harper himself was caught cheating at a public debate, so cheating at an election... it is very much a question of moral character.
Re:A great example of biast in the media (Score:5, Insightful)
Engage your brain for a minute. We're not talking about 2 or 3 ridings. The National Post (!) is currently reporting at least 14 ridings were robo-called, and the reality is that if you're going to use an illegal tactic and risk the shitstorm that is currently brewing, you don't fuck around with one or two ridings, you do the dirty in every race that's close enough for the tactic to make the difference. That's the problem. The larger, philosophical problem (that transcends politics) is this: how can you trust a government that would cheat on a massive scale to get elected, whatever colour their lawn sign?
Re:Perish the thought. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:4, Insightful)
If this is true, we will certainly see some action following this revelation.
If we do not, they are not.
Re:This is currently an issue. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep, that's about it
Except for a few key points:
- The reform party never won an election. They were never even the official opposition
- The Canadian constitution designates natural resources under provincially jurisdiction, not Federal.
- The NEP was actually enacted between the years of 1980 and 1985. Canada never say "twenty-five cent a gallon gasoline", despite this fine program.
- The "oil sands" were a benefit, but did not substantially increase Canadian oil production. Oil production in Canada has been rising at a fairly steady rate for the past 50 years
- Even before the reform party was even a gleam in Harper's eye, Trudeau's party didn't hold a single seat west of Manitoba. i.e. half the country didn't really like this "fine of a PM as this country has ever known"
- It was in fact, Trudeau's party (actually another future PM of canada, Jean Chretien), who shut down the National Energy Program
With oil and gas being traded on the free market, the whole NEP idea was ridiculous. It was a blatant attempt by the Liberal party to buy votes.
But other than those key points, you got everything else pretty much wrong as well.....
Re:This is currently an issue. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not much would have changed had Quebec separated*, and the chance of this happening was about a small as being able to get to the moon from a catapult and Mulroney knew this; he just did it for the power and status. Of course he side with the Americans, and it's not like he wasn't caught in a huge bribery scandal. But I'm sure that time he got caught was the only time THAT ever happened . Harper's involvement in the subjugation of Canadian government into effectively a department of the American Federal government - but without the checks and balance THEY have makes him in my mind a worse actor on the political stage that Mulrony who was just, like Nixon, a crooked used car salesman of a man who got caught.
Of course maybe it's just a coincidence too that bad policy in the US shows up in Canada shortly after. The wars, the new prisons, mandatory minimum sentences, an energy policy outdone by India, Germany and who knows who else.
There was a hope in the 70s that now that WII was truly well and gone and Vietnam is over then perhaps we'd get more for our money and life would be better. But it got steadily worse and it's much worse now that it was during the Vietnam era. Why? Because the people we put in power that were supposed to be dong things for the country and it's people had to instead sell out to moneyed interests just to get elected to do what little good they could work out in compromises with borderline criminals who saw this all as a crop to be harvested one time.
*some things are universal constants: when a dictator takes power they say, in every case, it's for the stability of the country. Hell, this was even ICANN's rationalization for their assuming total control "for the stability of the net" - ha ha, jokes on you boys, they really meant "so intellectual property owners see no changes at all" - which they got away with for a decade. What's also true is whenever there's a separation of a state into smaller states predictions of doom and gloom abound, but no matter how old you are if you're reading this you can see examples in very recent history of new countries formed and life goes on. It's just FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) to keep entrenched regimes of power in place.
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
There wouldn't be any evidence. There seldom is if the perps are competent, and if the evidence trail pointed upwards some flunky would fall on his sword to protect the Big Boss. This has been done many times before, and will again.
Just saying.
Re:More disturbingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is currently an issue. (Score:3, Insightful)
And honestly, it really does point to Harper.
*EVERYTHING* the Conservative party does is directed by Harper. If you want to know why the Conservatives run elections so smoothly, while every other party starts tripping over themselves, that's why. Basically every candidate in the Conservative party is given a list of points they can talk about. Deviating from the list is verboten. This way, no candidate can go and say something stupid (though there have been occasional errors that caused mild controversy). "Muzzled" is probably the right term for it.
The other parties are free to speak about themselves and they trip up and make controversial comments.
That's why they run the slickest election campaigns. This continues into government as well - everyone pretty much knows that everything the government says comes from Harper - everything is sanitized. The opposition parties don't. Heck, even their election ads are driven from the top.
In fact, the election scandals they have have pointed to coming straight from the top.
And anyone that doesn't believe it - look at what happens when someone from the government opens their mouth. Like Vic Toews and his spy bill - "if you oppose it, you're supporting child pornographers". The number of screwups the government makes is far lower than any other party.
Something like this has to come from the top - it's too well organized not to. And no, your Conservative party member will not speak with you unless Harper has pre-approved it.