White House Refuses To Comment On Petition To Investigate Chris Dodd 765
malraid writes "The White House has issued a statement in which they refuse to comment on the petition to investigate Chris Dodd for bribery from the MPAA to pass legislation. The reason given: 'because it requests a specific law enforcement action.'"
Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Good to know that greed and corruption still rule. I was worried that we may be entering some weird, "by and for the people" period in American history.
Seriously though, what's it gonna take? How bad does it have to get before Joe Sixpack wakes up and takes notice? How much more before we finally have that revolution?
I've been fighting with my votes, my dollar, and by educating everyone who will listen. I'm ready to lock and load to get MY America back.
Alright (Score:5, Insightful)
So lets go ask specific law enforcement agencies.
Executive branch (Score:3, Insightful)
Who could say this was unexpected? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:3, Insightful)
What? (Score:4, Insightful)
You can't petition to have someone arrested/investigated/incarcerated. Can you?
If there's a suspicion of illegality, the law enforcement agency is the place to go, not the president. pffft
So let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
We can petiition the White House to answer, on the record, any question as long as it is neither too specific NOR leads to a law enforcement action?
And the point of this 'service' is what, exactly? To provoke the administration to opine about non-specific social issues?
Re:Executive branch (Score:5, Insightful)
The Executive Branch delegates that to the Attorney General/US DOJ. Also, I see the lack of comment as a good thing, because if they didn't take this matter seriously, they'd have simply stated it had been dismissed out of hand. In this case though, it seems they do take it seriously.
Keep in mind that no Police Investigation aside from those run by the Keystone Cops starts with a public announcement saying they will investigate.
They say they are investigating *after* news outlets like CNN and FOX have reported that a bunch of FBI Agents raided offices and took away records and computers from those offices. Why give Dodd any more opportunity to hide, destroy evidence?
Re:So let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
And the point of this 'service' is what, exactly? To provoke the administration to opine about non-specific social issues?
Apparently the point of the service is to make it look like the White House is listening to the people. Look like. Not actually are.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly as I predicted when everybody here on Slashdot was insisting the would HAVE TO act.
This is Obama, he need only make the promise. He doesn't have to DO anything.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Voting (Score:3, Insightful)
THIS is what is exploited to get certain people into power, scaring people and making it so they don't actually vote, scaring them into not voting so that corporate interests and greed can take over.
It's people like you that have effectively sat back and let the MAFIAA take over our nation.
Re:Declining to vote for Obama. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm ready to lock and load to get MY America back.
So as someone from outside (I'm Canadian), I've come to the conclusion that the US will only solve it's issues that way. I'm truly saddened by it, and I hope it's quick and mostly bloodless, but I doubt it will be.
I know it's not a popular idea, but you have to admit: the level of vitriol in the USA has hit unbelievable levels. It makes my head hurt - for both of the major parties. You don't have political options any more - the only one that is an ACTUAL choice away from more of the same is Ron Paul. Too bad he's so far out to lunch. You're headed towards civil war. And right now all the religions folks have all the guns. Oh the irony.
I wish you the best of luck. Please, keep your military out of it, and protect your nukes while you sort this shiat out.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
So why don't we do ask this again - and better people then me should phrase it - but this time asking if they think "that type of corruption has is occuring" and "if Chriss Dodd 's actions are aligned with the morals of the administration"? Is this "a cockroach you see", among the thousands we don't? What is the white house's stance on money in politics, and have they investigated others, during the this administration? Who is analyzing finances and trends to spot inconsistencies? Are there any active investigations of this at present?
it's wrong to just not answer, when they could have made a statement, avoiding the issue of guilt. That's a cop out, and i expect more.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's how it works. (Score:5, Insightful)
Obama is the President. Obama HAS been the President for several years.
That's how it works.
Blame Bush all you want for taxes or the economy or high gas prices or even pimples on your ass if it makes you feel better.
Obama is the current President and his administration is in charge. He should be held accountable for NOT holding people account for things that happen on his watch.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's interesting that outsiders can see the inevitability of civil war isn't it?
The level of hate, spite, vitriol and absolute us/them divide is obvious for all to see.
Tiny issues, of no importance, or consequence, are raised to absolute exreme/hate issues. Devicive language, militarized police, extreme violence, ethnic hatred, extreme paranoia, social chaos, endless multiple wars, extremes in poverty/wealth and perverse legal and ethical injustice. There is no middle ground, its all one side or the other.
It has ticked every single box for catastrophic upheaval.
Frankly, I will be glad. The USA as an idea has failed its people and I'm tired of the US's enforced exported culture. It is vile.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, nothing is better than whatever the Repub's do.
Your comment is the typical Democrat response. Here we have a story about a Democrat who is refusing to investigate another Democrat. Your response? You bad mouth Republicans. Of course, like Obama and all other Democrats, you are incapable of criticizing them, no matter how wrong they are.
If Dodd were a Republican, the investigation would have been complete long ago, no petitions needed, and you would get first post saying that this is proof positive that Republicans are corrupt.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Revolution is our birthright as American citizens. Bloodless if possible, bloody if necessary. It is obvious that our government has been twisted against the people it is supposed to be representative of.
I don't want to hurt anyone, but I will not be a victim. This isn't Iraq, and we're not terrified villagers living in stone age conditions. The people have been asleep for a long time, lulled into a false sense of security by greed and manipulation, but they're finally beginning to wake up, and it's about fucking time...
It seems clear to me now that the last shred of what made this country great died on 9/11. The terrorists attacked us, but we finished the job all on our own.
the plutocracy sucks (Score:4, Insightful)
the bloodshed you endorse is far, far worse
little boys like you who have never known real revolution are historically illiterate fools. we will not have a revolution in this country until we are pushed much, much further. and that is a good thing
you don't have the slightest fucking clue of the misery of what a real revolution really is like. i hate the very concept of intellectual property and i hate the plutocracy infecting the country i love. but i am no friend of yours, and the likes of you disgust me far more than chris dodd ever will. at least chris dodd won't lock and load and embrace borderline schizophrenic hollywood addled visions of "glorious" revolutionary bloodshed
fuck you, you gunhappy tool. if we are ever to actually have real fascism in this country, people who think like you, all to ready and happy to grab a gun, will be at the vanguard of this country's collapse into it, guided by demagogues who know all too well how to pull the strings in your ignorant bloodlust drunk mind
revolution means failure you asshole. you are supposed to fix the system, not start shooting people you
have i made my disgust of your ignorant bloodlust clear? then grow the fuck up
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, it's craptastic that Dodd isn't getting investigated [at least, not publicly].
But it's not like the republican's fall all over themselves to investigate fellow republican's when they are in charge. Both sides are similarly corrupt, only perhaps in slightly different ways.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
The system is composed of individuals. If you can drag the corruption of individuals out into the public and hold them responsible, you can make others think twice (or more) about their own actions. If reform is to come, it must come one step at a time. It is simply wishful thinking to believe the entire system can be fixed all at once. The starting point is to take individuals to task for their actions. Once that starts happening, you can think about working on the system as a whole. You drag out enough of the corrupt individuals, you will already have a good start on fixing the system.
If you only work on fixing the system, the still-corrupt individuals will find ways around, somehow. They always do (they always have).
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
So, people saying what you don't like needs to put people on secret lists so they can be abused by the government while going about their legal business. Gotcha. I think I can see why you're not OK with the original idea.
How about this: you don't deserve the freedom to post what you just did, and I think you need to be put on a list for conspiring to commit treason (by advocating violation of the constitution). If you can start deciding what is allowed, so can I. See how it works? Grow a brain.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
You think the Iraqis were "terrified villagers living in stone age conditions" prior to our showing up? How fucking clueless can you be?
You're being melodramatic and angsty because it's fun to imagine yourself as a freedom fighter up against some great evil. Let's introduce some perspective. We're talking about some asshole senator who was bribed to help a few companies make more money off of us. Do you have any idea how often that has happened throughout our history? Can you name a single fucking decade in which that has not happened?
But no, rather than accept that the country will always be messy and that we should do the best we can, you want to burn it all down. You want to kill because Hollywood has taught you that violence can solve all your problems. The scrappy rebels always win and ride off into the sunset.
Grow up.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
If Dodd were a Republican, the investigation would have been complete long ago...
I was with you till this point. It would have been more likely, but only very slightly. Nobody wants to start chucking the corruption grenade around. It might bounce back and bite them.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you seriously suggesting there should be a criminal investigation against anyone where 25,000 people call for it?
This has nothing to do with Obama. it has everything to do with Federal prosecutors. Write a letter to both the FBI and the US Attorney's Office stating that you believe a crime has been committed that is within their jurisdiction and requesting they investigate. 25,000 letters like that might achieve something.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
I hate the "let me fix that for ya" phrase, but this really stands out:
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's what Thomas Jefferson said to do.
what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html [loc.gov]
Re:the plutocracy sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
no we have assholes who have no clue what real fascism is and water down the real horror of the term by applying it to every minor quibble they have with the idea of authority. see: teenagers calling their parents fascists. see also how the term terrorism is abused and watered down by ignorants and demagogues
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
Obama is a fucking Republican you retard. What the fuck does the mainstream Democratic party call someone who is pro-war, pro-surveillance, pro-dronebombing, pro-due-process-free-detention, pro-due-process-free-execution, pro-goldman-sachs, pro-protecting-torturers, pro-persecuting-whistleblowers, pro-PATRIOT-Act ... if Obama is the lesser evil, then lets just get it done with now by getting the greater evil in -- that we can have a revolution sooner and get back to being America. Obama's brand of lesser evil is so fucking evil it makes me want to spit.
Re:And that's kinda the whole point of democracy.. (Score:3, Insightful)
yes, and even with the plutocratic infection we are still far from revolution
but we WILL get to revolution eventually if we do not clear the money infection that is turning "we the people" into "we the rich people and corporations"
we need to cure our government
the morons ready to reach for guns already are just pathetic useless fools
the same sort of ignorant tool who were happy and excited to suit up and get into world war i and the american civil war, and died very quickly with a surprised expression on their face
that's the sort of fucking useless cannon fodderwho are happy to talk about real armed revolution, because of... the RIAA?!
jesus christ what useless stupid people there are in this world
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Who do you think is in charge of the FBI and the US Attorney's Office? That's right, the President. Stop being an apologist.
You're being silly (Score:3, Insightful)
You want to do something that works? Don't have children (Ok,
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
This "bullet box" rhetoric needs to end. The people who mod it up should be ashamed of themselves, and the people who post it ought to be on government watch lists.
As a Canadian, it saddens me that there are Americans who don't even understand why the second amendment is enshrined in the constitution.
Re:Executive branch (Score:4, Insightful)
More informed, really?
There's a reason teachers don't teach details. It's because very few people can understand all the details of every field. Teachers and textbooks present simplified overviews of a field, so that interested students have a basic level of understanding to move on to further education later.
This applies at every level. An elementary school teacher says "Congress makes laws". A High school teacher says "the committees of the House and Senate make bills, which are passes to become laws". A college professor says "The committees are influenced by lobbyists representing industries and activists who have interest in the bill" and in the real world, a politician finds that the committees are influenced by lobbyists, activists, legal precedent, and international treaties (which are themselves subject to a complicated procedure), and myriad other sources.
This applies to every field. As more casual observers choose not to continue their education in a particular field, the study gets into more complex subjects. Knowing everything about everything is simply not possible today. There are too many fields with too much to know.
Then, there's the Internet, with its vast availability of information. Surely, this will allow everyone to fully understand the complexities and nuances of every field, right? Absolutely not. There are few resources on the Web where one can go to study in adequate depth, and those arcane details are incomprehensible without the prior years of study to understand how all the details work together. Very few people want to devote that much time to studying online, so they'll abandon learning the complexity, and will simply follow the advice of some person or website they trust.
Today, it appears that such trusted websites are predominantly social networks, where people hear the opinions of their peers, read a one-page summary of an issue, and instantly believe themselves qualified to debate it. This is why candidates with simple plans to fix everything get so much support from Internet-based grassroots movements, but can never gather support from the big corporations (who employ economic and political specialists who understand the complex consequences of the simple plans).
People hear that the Federal Reserve Bank loaned out $16 trillion dollars without any special announcement, and they start rallying against the Fed for this policy of handing out money to banks. They flock to Ron Paul's banner, calling to eliminate the Federal Reserve Bank. The real story is that the $16 trillion figure was the cumulative total of one-day loans, meaning that a $100 loan for one month would be recorded as $3000, even though only $100 was loaned out, and $100 was paid back.
The people in charge now understand the complexities of their fields, and the people in charge in the future will continue to understand the complexities of their fields. Hopefully, they will continue to ignore the uninformed masses, and take their short-sighted quick-fix plans with significant doses of salt.
This is not to say that the Internet is useless. There is great potential for legitimate change to be effected via websites like the EFF's, where organizations with particular (and publicly-stated) goals can state their view on an issue, and the masses can donate their voice (by way of a petition signature and/or a monetary donation) to support the experts of the organization, who do understand the complexities involved.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
We wont survive. (Score:4, Insightful)
People armed with guns can't retake our country. This is a long cry from the civil war where all you had to do was pick up a musket and you'd be on relatively equal terms with the foe you're facing. They have military and strategic dominance on every level, not to mention they can do all sorts of underhanded things to make everyone involved disappear. I do believe such soldiers may turn sides, but it's highly unlikely. They country in and of itself has become too powerful to take back by a common citizen with a rifle. Such a imbalance of power would lead to an extremely bloody conflict with the people without it getting slaughtered in droves attempting to take it back from people with it. The american zeitgeist isn't ready for such a conflict either. We have too many differing opinions to split things down the middle and we easily get bored of things when it doesn't involve everyone dying around us.
This is completely putting aside how it will turn the country upside down and leaves us open to people who would never dream of trying to take america going and doing it. You shouldn't think in such short sighted terms. Picking up a weapon and starting to shoot people without any forethought is a bad decision.
You have to change things from the inside, bit by bit, piece by piece. Witch hunts need to be performed and we need something similar to the inquisition that will willingly investigate every part of the system (not the people) and burn the heretics retroactively. It needs to be done peacefully so when the side that gets power hungry and decides to use an iron fist they can be branded as such. So there is a right and wrong, so that the people can understand that one side is fighting for something better then power...
When and IF this happens it will start to signify a new golden age for America, one that is founded on the future rather then making more money then the other person. We need to help each other rather then trying to drive each other in the dirt. Just because the country was founded with capitalism in mind, doesn't mean we need to stay that way. We are much better then that. It's the direction most first world countries are taking and it's the right one.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but have you ever hear the little song behind the word "jingoism"?
We don't want to go to war but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
That's how you're coming across. "I don't want to kill people to get my way, but..."
Things in this country aren't bad enough to warrant the sort of massive, decades long bloodshed you're talking about. Not even close. We can turn things around through peaceful means. You're looking at one tiny slice of history and declaring that this is the worst things have ever been. It's not. Not even close.
Not long ago, a huge portion of the country was treated as subhuman while our leaders were playing with the idea of wiping out human civilization. We got through that, and we can sure as hell get through this. The only thing we need is the will to try. If all the people who have given up on politics were to get off their asses and vote in the general election AND THE PRIMARIES then we could fix this all in short order. But instead they figure that their one vote won't make a difference and so they don't bother. And then when their non-vote doesn't elicit change, they decide that the whole system is FUBAR'ed and start talking about mass murder to solve their problems. Can you really not see how stupid and self-defeating that is?
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
As so they did to Rome. As an idea it worked. But only for those it worked for. The rest were slaves, conquered and crucified.
Cruelty and injustice were exported. Wars were endless.
Tyranny or empire might look just, even effective, but it eventually gets on everyone's goat. If you are within the system and benefiting, one cannot see the problems until viewed from the outside.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Obama is a Republican circa 1990. Modern Republicans add pro-corporate-personhood, anti-Medicare, anti-Social-Security, anti-taxes-of-any-kind (except sales taxes since they target the working class), anti-regulation, anti-intellectual, pro-occupation (very different from the Libya war), and so on to the list.
The entire country has moved to the right. Democrats are where the Republicans used to be, and Republicans are out in Crazy Town (pop. Way Too Many).
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's interesting that outsiders can see the inevitability of civil war isn't it?
Maybe they're young.
Or they have short memories.
But what we have today is nothing, nothing compared to the 60s and 70s.
Re:You're being silly (Score:3, Insightful)
There will be no civil war. A modern military can put down it's populace in no time. You don't have the weapons, tactics or manpower to take on a police force, let alone the US army. Plus our ruling class own the media. Look how far Occupy Wall Street got.
It just takes a critical mass. A mass that goes from "a bunch of bored kids" to "friends and family". Are you telling me that the US Army is going to follow through with orders to shoot their fellow countrymen? Sure. A few will. (Stanford Prison Experiment). But if you get enough people that are upset with the way things are no army is going to stand in their way.
And the way everyone has been acting (Police shooting a Marine in the head with a flashbag) I wouldn't be surprised if the Military turned on the Police before the Citizens.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
If a 270 year old dead guy told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
Stop prostrating yourself at the feet of the founding fathers. They were men, not gods. They did a pretty decent job, all things considered, but they don't have all the answers. And if you find you must follow the teachings of some old dead guy instead of analyzing situations for yourself, then why Jefferson? Why not Gandhi, or Jesus? They might tell you to do something very different.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure he also envisioned a bunch of intellectuals debating theory, but who did he propose would lead this said 'revolt'?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not too late at all. We still have free elections. We can protest without the tanks rolling in. If you pay attention, then you saw what happened when the Iranians tried to have an election, and when they tried to protest. They are past the point of no return. We're not. But we will be if you get your civil war.
You could go out and get involved in activism. Find candidates who you trust, and push for them in primaries. They'll need to wear the brandname of one of the two political parties, but that's just a label. You can make a difference. It's just hard as hell.
Hollywood has conditioned us to want fast answers, typically through violence. No problem takes more than a few hours to resolve, and most can be resolved by shooting someone. That's not how real life works. It will take many years to climb out of the hole dug over the past few decades. But a civil war will take even longer, and be far less pleasant. You need to wrap your head around that. You've never lived though the sort of violent social upheaval you're describing, so maybe it's hard for you to imagine it. But look around the world. Take a good hard look at other countries that have undergone civil war in the past twenty years or so. Ask yourself if life in America is really worse than life in Iran or Iraq or Somalia or the Congo or Moldova or Sri Lanka.
Re:You're being silly (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing about civil wars is that the dividing line goes as much across the military as it does across other parts of society.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
While not being from the US but close by I can understand why people would refrence the American Founding Fathers in a time where the same issues they face are being encountered today.
No loaves, no wine, no song, just politics.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
I was listening up to "teabagger". Anyone that would smear an entire group of people with a crude sexual slur just because they disagree with them can't be too bright.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
...[people who vote] are brainwashed [into thinking] the government will make everything better despite them always making it worse right in front of them
Caution; answering "no" to any of the following questions may reveal that it's you who has been brainwashed into denying what is right in front of you...
Do you really think a public sewerage system is worse than emptying your bedpan on the street?
Do you really think chlorinated water is worse than cholera and dysentery?
Do you really think crossing a public bridge is worse than travelling 200miles out of your way to ford a river?
Disclaimer: I have been homeless but I've never been so mindless as to take government mandated 'luxuries' for granted.
Re:More Republican Poutrage (Score:5, Insightful)
Chris Dodd is hardly the only politician who has done such a thing, and there is currently no law against it unless there is an actual promised payment (even Delay/Gingrich have been smart enough to avoid that). Some might argue that there should be laws against such 'retirement plans' for politicians, but it would be hard to enforce, and likely unconstitutional. There are however laws against money laundering and using foreign bank accounts for tax evasion, perhaps Mitt has been completely honest, perhaps not. As 'we' all know, online polls are easy to game, it wouldn't be hard to ask them to investigate using a couple of thousand email addresses.
Whenever the GOP is in power they seem to spend more time grandstanding for political advantage than doing the work of the people (for example, 'where's that jobs bill?').
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, you know, he could just be choosing a quote that matches his personal views because it happens to put them over well, and of course suggests that famous and generally respected people share his ideas.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:3, Insightful)
You may have fought for something, all right, but it wasn't for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
At least not for you and me.
Well I can tell you it definitely wasn't for YOU! The government's reasons for doing things frequently don't align with the individual's. I was a Marine in GHWB's Gulf War. From a government perspective it was definitely about oil. To me, those would have been unlawful orders, except that I saw what Hussein did to the people of Kuwait. THAT is why I served, sir. Our family friend that we wave to daily as he strolls by in his wheelchair didn't lose his legs in the current Iraq venture because of GWB's daddy complex, he did it because he believed he was trying to help the Iraqi people, because he believed (however misguided it may be) that he was helping to keep our liberties safe. He paid for it with loss of use of half of his body, at the hands of the very people he was trying to help. And to have some cumstain POS like you denigrate the sacrifice that he made makes my blood boil! And then the following poster takes yet one more crap on Vietnam Vets, an even more egregious act given the fact that those guys didn't even volunteer, they were drafted.
Listen, I know what you are trying to say. I am a LIBERAL (one of the few who refuse to accept that the term rooted in liberty has somehow become pejorative). I did not support Jr's excursion into Iraq at all, I protested against it. But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the people who fought (and continue to fight in Afghanistan), even the ones who committed some awful acts, did it out of a love for their country, for their fellow citizens, and for the principles that they represent (regardless of how far we may come from actually attaining them). They did it for you and me and the Iraqi/Afghan people.
It's real easy to take a stand against something from the cozy confines of the internet, but you best drag your ass out there and do it in the real world before you decide to slander several million Americans who put their countrymen before themselves.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
The entire country has moved to the right. Democrats are where the Republicans used to be, and Republicans are out in Crazy Town (pop. Way Too Many).
Actually, there's a massive disconnect between the politicians and the people of the United States. If the country were majority rule, which it isn't, marijuana would be legalized, gay marriage would be legal in more places, we would be completely out of Afghanistan and Iraq (not the "we're out, but there are drones and 15,000 soldiers / mercenaries to ... uh ... protect our embassy" version), many congresspersons would be indicted for bribery, many many banking executives (as well as some other corporate executives) would be indicted for multi-billion dollar fraud, the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau would be operating with full force, thousands of foreclosures would be ruled invalid and the people's homes restored, Bradley Manning and Julian Assange would be free, and there'd quite possibly be a massive public works program to keep people employed.
And that's why both the Tea Party and the Occupiers exist - the system is failing to respond to what the people want.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
And THAT my friends is another example of a fallacy. In this case the false dichotomy.
The poster is attempting to imply that to reject the fallacy of call-to-authority one must reject anything learned from another person, implying that all knowledge is either brand new or a call to authority.
That is of course, a false dichotomy as those are NOT the only types of knowledge that exists. There is also knowledge backed up by empirical evidence. There are arguments founded on solid logical principles and valid conclusions - and that's just two other kinds.
The point of the call to authority fallacy is to teach us, when evaluating an idea that:
It's not about who said it, it's about whether what was said is a good argument.
To judge the merit of the claim not the merit of the speaker. Why ? Because wise people still say stupid shit sometimes.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:2, Insightful)
The Founding fathers were universally, Rich, Owned land and property, and slaves ...
Not accurate. Some owned slaves, others were devout abolitionists. Benjamin Franklin founded the first antislavery society in 1774. While I think they probably all owned land, not all were "rich", but they were leaders of their communities, and well to do. But then I've never heard of any country being founded, led, or taken over by any poor or indigent people, so that's entirely irrelevant.
Keep writing and signing petitions (Score:4, Insightful)
So what?
The cutoff point for a response to a petition is 25,000 signatures. The Chris Dodd petition was somewhere around 35,000 the last I checked. Would you really want Obama to take decisive actions based on the will of 25-35,000 people? We (the US) are a nation of over 300 million individuals! How much say should a mere 10s of thousands have?
However... 30 some thousand people bothered to sign it. Many probably had to go through the trouble to create accounts showing they cared more than just enough to click a link. Do you think this goes entirely unnoticed among the politicians? Please don't get me wrong, they are not going to suddenly become good. They are still getting all sorts of money and perks legal and otherwise from special interests including the movie and record industries. They can probably count on buying far more than 30,000 votes just by name recognition from the ads they can buy with lobbyist money. They aren't going to just throw that away. But they do know they can't be so bold about it. Elections are never more than 4 years away which means they will be considering both voters and campaign money. If we give up then the only voice they hear is the ones giving them the campaign money.
The world is not going to change because of our little petitions but they will make some small difference. Even if it is only a little subconscious influence on politicians minds as they make decisions in the future that is something.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
And if you find you must follow the teachings of some old dead guy instead of analyzing situations for yourself, then ... why not ... Jesus?
Because Jesus was an anti-capitalist, pro-tax, pro-immigration, commie bastard, who only hung out with job-quitters, hookers, and tax-collectors.
Re:Dying from lack of surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
You may have fought for something, all right, but it wasn't for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
At least not for you and me.
Well I can tell you it definitely wasn't for YOU! The government's reasons for doing things frequently don't align with the individual's. I was a Marine in GHWB's Gulf War. From a government perspective it was definitely about oil. To me, those would have been unlawful orders, except that I saw what Hussein did to the people of Kuwait. THAT is why I served, sir. Our family friend that we wave to daily as he strolls by in his wheelchair didn't lose his legs in the current Iraq venture because of GWB's daddy complex, he did it because he believed he was trying to help the Iraqi people, because he believed (however misguided it may be) that he was helping to keep our liberties safe. He paid for it with loss of use of half of his body, at the hands of the very people he was trying to help.
Hmmm... You do realize that the same Iraqis that put your neighbour in a wheelchair "did it because they believed they were trying to help the Iraqi people, because they believed (however misguided it may be) that they were helping to keep their liberties safe", right? You should also realize that, objectively, they had a better justification than you did, because they were fighting an invader on their homeland.
And to have some cumstain POS like you denigrate the sacrifice that he made makes my blood boil!
Outtascope's dictionary:
cumstain POS like you, n.: A person who disagrees with me, whose argument I cannot refute.
Your resorting to anger, name calling and srawman arguments are classical symptoms of cognitive dissonance. You should consider stopping throwing tantrums and starting addressing the issues.
For the record, the AC did not denigrate anything. He did state that whatever you (and by extension, your neighbour) were fighting for had absolutely no positive effect on "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" in your country (that little "At least not for you and me" part that you neglected to include in your quoting). Personally, I happen to agree with him.
But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the people who fought (and continue to fight in Afghanistan), even the ones who committed some awful acts, did it out of a love for their country, for their fellow citizens, and for the principles that they represent (regardless of how far we may come from actually attaining them).
I would very much like to know which principles exactly justified this [wikipedia.org].
They did it for you and me and the Iraqi/Afghan people.
No, they didn't. Some of them (maybe even most of them) believed that they were doing it for those stated reasons, while some of them used it as a convenient excuse.
It's real easy to take a stand against something from the cozy confines of the internet, but you best drag your ass out there and do it in the real world before you decide to slander several million Americans who put their countrymen before themselves.
The AC made a statement. Do you have anything (other than jingoistic fervour) to counter it?