North Korean Dictator Kim Jong Il Dead at 70 518
As reported by numerous sources, Kim Jong Il has died at the age of 70 (69 by some tallies), after 17 years as the brutal head of North Korea. While the cause of death is uncertain, Bloomberg News says "Kim probably had a stroke in August 2008 and may have also contracted pancreatic cancer, according to South Korean news reports."
And now the danger begins (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:And now the danger begins (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's a big deal (Score:2, Interesting)
Bonus (Score:5, Interesting)
2011 was a good year to dictators... what else can be said?
Stability seems overrated (Score:4, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Meh (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's a big deal (Score:4, Interesting)
Liberalization sounds easy, but it is a painfully hard thing to do in real life. Sun Yat-sen tried to do it in China, but his ideals meant that he was pushed out of power before he could actually do much, and the replacement government was quite the disaster. The man who did bring democracy successfully to the Republic of China was Chiang Ching-kuo, whose reign was known as the "white terror".
Point is, governing well is HARD, and good intentions are not always the same results.
Re:It's a big deal (Score:2, Interesting)
That's only because you're from the Western world and think so. You have to remember that Asians have a totally different culture. I just wish US people would understand that, and also understand that maybe everyone in the world don't want them to get involved in everything and try to force rest of the world act like them.
Don't group all Asians in one pot. Japan and South Korea have free speech and their citizens are much more prosperous on average than the Chinese and North Koreans.
You talk like a privileged twit with ties to some oppressive government regime, trying to justify injustices by saying "but it's our culture, our people love being lied to and are willing to sacrifice their freedoms for the good of the whole".
Sorry for posting as an AC, I just don't feel like creating an account.
Re:Good Riddance (Score:5, Interesting)
Bye, Kim, we won't miss you at all.
Lets wait and see to who steps in to fill his shoes... you may find you miss him more than you'd think.
Re:It's a big deal (Score:4, Interesting)
Since China is a democratic country
This earned a "(Score:5, Insightful)" on slashdot? Really? Wow.
You have to remember that most Chinese actually positively agree about limiting free speech.
Which is why they constantly speak of magical creatures like the River Crab, the Grass Mud Horse, and the Small Elegant Butterfly.
Just try yelling fire in a crowded theater.
I'm not aware of any US laws that prohibit the reporting of theater fires. Justice Holmes' actual words were "falsely shouting fire in a theater".
Re:Updates on the current situation insid North Ko (Score:4, Interesting)
You can hear the sound of wailing outside.
You know, that's pretty fucking depressing. Not Kim's death, that's a reason to celebrate; but much like when Stalin died, it's really fucked to see the people actually, honestly mourning... Makes you wonder about a few things, doesn't it?
Western Capitalism v State Communism (Score:3, Interesting)
Under State Communism, the elite declare that they own as much as possible so the population are turned into desperate slaves. There are a dwindling few in the middle who insist that life is dandy under State Communism because they were intelligent, unscrupulous and obeisant enough to get ahead, and that "at least it's not like Western Capitalism" where people are left to wither. Man exploits man.
Under Western Capitalism, the elite declare that they own as much as possible so the population are turned into desperate slaves. There are a dwindling few in the middle who insist that life is dandy under Western Capitalism because they were intelligent, unscrupulous and obeisant enough to get ahead, and that "at least it's not like State Communism" where people are forced to work. Man exploits man.
At least when we see news reports about how great our country is/isn't we can go around and check to see how much the media is lying. We have to be very unchoosy in where we visit in order to get a full picture, and few of us are willing to do that - it takes time and is sometimes quite dangerous - but at least we can obtain some approximation. None of us know much about NK at all beyond obvious Western propaganda and occasional isolated reports. Yet we are much quicker to assume and to condemn than to campaign for more information. Isn't it so easy to say, "Guy X in Arabia/Asia is evil because I have a tweet saying so - let me retweet that and feel part of the neoliberation movement" ? Isn't it easy to assume that what occupies that power vacuum will be better - Mission has been Accomplished so many times over the past decade, hasn't it?
Not so great (Score:3, Interesting)
The saddest thing is that probably each and every citizen -- be them old, young, children, ill, healthy -- will have (as in obliged) to pay his or her visit to the funeral in order to say a last good bye, in a country with a terrible winter and where artificial heating is a luxury only available to the great members of the party. Perhaps even a little sadder is knowing that absolutely nothing will change, for his son has been trained since his early years to take on daddy's position and keep up with the realm of terror, not to mention that the old military leaders who were by KJI's side the whole time still remain.
The positive thing about his death to the citizens of North Korea is to show them that despite of what their government have been saying, their leaders are not deities nor special in any way, and are prone to die just like any other human. I wonder how his death is being explained to citizens -- perhaps they are being taught that the dearest leader ascended to the skies after fulfilling his role as a guide to humanity.
Re:69, 70, by some.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, while that's true about Korean birthdays, in this case people actually aren't sure. Older reports said he was born in 1941, but his official biography says 1942. The general assumption is that he was born in 1941, and 1942 was made up for propaganda. His father, Kim Il-sung would have been 30 in 1942, meaning that, by altering the date, they can celebrate 10 year anniversaries together (so next year they can have a big celebration for Kim Il-sung's 100th birthday and Kim Jong-il's 70th). Since part of how Kim Jong-il held onto power was by trying to absorb some of his father's reflected glory, that made sense as a propaganda move. So he's probably 70, but might be 69 if his "official" birthday is actually accurate.
Also, with regard to age complexity, don't forget that most Koreans literally don't know how to say "forty years old" or older because the numbering system used for ages is only for sequential counting (there's a different numbering system for things which are not always sequential). When necessary, they'll use the other (Chinese-derived) numbering system for ages above 39, but generally will simply avoid talking about it.
Re:It's a big deal (Score:3, Interesting)
Like monotheistic religion, it is an essential part of US culture and thinking that their way is the only correct way. Any viewpoint that differs significantly from what the US collectively - or its government - considers to be correct or normal is therefore wrong. Now, I know they are not alone in thinking this way, probably everyone does to one degree or another but in the US it seems to be particularly virulent, and they are a major economic, cultural and military force at the moment so their view is dominating.
You have to understand that God himself came down and gave the US their constitution, and it is perfect. The problem with this of course is that very intelligent, but otherwise ordinary men drafted the document, it is subject to revision - and has been revised - and its something that they need to keep refining and protecting from introduced errors. However for many US citizens the Constitution seems to be a near holy object treated with undo reverence.
A lot of Americans also seem to think that if you are a citizen of the US you are inherently superior to anyone else in the world. As in more deserving, more intelligent, a better person, superior to foreigners, more deserving of everything. Conversely, non-US citizens are inferior human beings with less rights, less intelligence, less value etc.
Re:It's a big deal (Score:5, Interesting)
"Perestroika didn't work, because Gorbachev, whatever his other qualities, was still a communist at heart, and never pushed the reforms far enough. Glasnost was however quite successful, and, IMHO, was a direct contributor to the fall of communism in Eastern Europe, and to the subsequent disollution of the USSR."
Disclaimer: I'm from Eastern Europe, so I know a little bit what you talk about. Also I'm socialist by nature, but I don't believe in forced change, nor change forced upon someone, so I'm kinda torn always about this :)
What I really don't like that we mix up terms, especially when talking about regimes. Russians like to mix Fascism with Nazism (which is very ironic taking into account that their country now is definitely Fascist by definition - look up for definition to understand what I'm talking about) when they talk about World War II and their struggle against Hitler.
Also in my opinion what was in USSR after 1925 wasn't communism (before that there was just bloody chaos with both sides killing people like there's no tomorrow). It was totalitarianism with Bolshevist rule - and some socialist juice (like free medicine, stable work or social guarantees) thrown in. If fact all real old Marxists (still people with lot of blood on their hands, but they aimed to open Communist party and allow discussions and criticism) died in 1937 purges by hand of Stalin. After that it was mix of Russian nationalism (as "nation-unifier"), totalitarianism and elitism of one party elite.
If we take bigger picture, most of killings weren't any way connected to Communism or people killed poised any threat to regime. For example big purges usually involved barbaric competition (who will kill most people to show it's dedication to leader) or getting rid of unpleasant people using atmosphere of mistrust and lies.
(I suggest to read what actually community rule meant in Russia in 1905 - 1917, Stalinism era and other stuff. Wikipedia has good start material for this.)
In nutshell - Gorbachev wasn't communist (I'm ready to bet that there were very few key people who actually believed it was possible to achieve in Communist party at that time already) as he was just a part of the this system, which tried to protect itself. However Perestroika didn't work due of other problems - actually reforms were too successful. They opened USSR too much and harsh reality of economics started to kick in. People were tired of promises and compromises between freedom and life quality and talking about changes (but with no any possibility trying them) was too much. Regime couldn't deliver what they wanted also because they had wasted all their money in arm competition with the West - and (ohh irony) in Afghanistan. Also only counteractions like famous unsuccessful August coup (or January OMON attacks) pushed people to support nationalists in their soviet republics to claim independence and separation because they understood quite good what would come.
Re:North Korean State television Says... (Score:4, Interesting)
The true report is even funnier, that he died from mental and physical exhaustion from his dedication to improving the country. Can't make that stuff up.
And North Koreans believe it. There's a book anyone concerned with North Korea should read: The Cleanest Race: How North Koreans See Themselves and Why It Matters [amazon.com].
We keep thinking that all people desire democracy and western style freedom. But that's not always the case. Decades of brainwashing works. Norks adored that guy, and his father before him, because the whole system in NK was designed to ensure that.