North Korean Dictator Kim Jong Il Dead at 70 518
As reported by numerous sources, Kim Jong Il has died at the age of 70 (69 by some tallies), after 17 years as the brutal head of North Korea. While the cause of death is uncertain, Bloomberg News says "Kim probably had a stroke in August 2008 and may have also contracted pancreatic cancer, according to South Korean news reports."
It's a big deal (Score:5, Informative)
Re:And now the danger begins (Score:5, Informative)
I agree completely that this isn't welcome, but don't underestimate the degree to which Kim Jong Un has been integrated into the power structure. Although from April 2009, there's an excellent article on Foreign Policy [foreignpolicy.com] about the efforts to get him and his allies into key posts.
Having lived in Korea for almost six years (but since moved away) this news is disturbing and unsettling. While I don't predict anything drastic like a war, Kim Jong Un is going to have to prove himself to the people. If that means sinking another ship like the Cheonan, or shelling another island, or worse... then everyone on the peninsula should be prepared.
Re:Meh (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe dining on lobsters and imported cognac while up to 3.5 million [wikipedia.org] of his citizens died of starvation. If that doesn't count, then I'm not sure what does.
The famine occurred only just after he took power, so I guess you can argue that the blame is on Kim Il Sung and years of juche ideology. But make no mistake, Kim Jong Il was not a naive little boy trapped by circumstance. He was an egocentric sociopath who lived a life of luxury as his country struggled in abject poverty.
Re:North Korean State television Says... (Score:5, Informative)
The true report is even funnier, that he died from mental and physical exhaustion from his dedication to improving the country. Can't make that stuff up.
Re:Meh (Score:5, Informative)
He played lots of mind games with US, South Korea and rest of the world because he had to.
Or he could have made peace, like South Korea tried with the Sunshine Policy [wikipedia.org].
Re:It's a big deal (Score:3, Informative)
Wow, this is the must uniformed comment that I have seen in a while. Pyongyang was an amazingly advanced city for him and his cronies. For everyone else though... not so much. North Korea has one of the worst starvation rates in the world (so bad that many areas have resorted to cannibalism at different points over the last 20 years). And meanwhile, South Korea has been desperately trying to send food to them through the Sunshine Policy of asking for nothing in return for the aid. They had to end the sunshine policy, though, because Our Dear Leader kept blowing things up, like South Korean submarines, or launching ICBMs for no clear reason. When you add in the constant kidnappings, such as those of Japanese women that he turned into sex slaves and refused to return, you have a pretty messed up place.
In fact I cannot even imagine the kind of person who would want to defend North Korea or the lunacy of Kim Jung Il. At least with the nasty military junta of Burma, it is easy to understand the motivations of the government. But, for heaven's sakes, Kim Jung Il claimed to be decedent from a god and he invented the hamburger! Ignorance is one thing, but if it is not that then it just makes me kind of sick.
Re:It's a big deal (Score:1, Informative)
Hint: Africa isn't a fucking Country
Updates on the current situation insid North Korea (Score:5, Informative)
North Korea has announced that it has entered a period of formal mourning following the death of Kim Jong Il lasting from the 17th, the day of his passing, until the 29th.
The news was released in a brief communiqué in the name of the ‘State Funeral Committee’.
Chosun Central News Agency announced the news, stating, “The body of National Defense Commission Chairman Kim will lie in state at Kumsusan Memorial Palace during the period of mourning from the 17th to the 29th. Visitors will be received between the 20th and 27th. The ceremony for his parting will be performed on the 28th in Pyongyang.”
“Central memorial meetings to honor Chairman Kim will open on the 29th,” it went on. “At that time in Pyongyang and sites in every province there will be an artillery salute and 3 minutes silence, and all official vehicles and vessels will sound their horns.”
Second update: NK Borders Ordered Closed Before Death Announcement http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01700&num=8549 [dailynk.com]
North Korean border guard units received orders at 1AM on the night of the 18th to close the border with China with immediate effect.
An inside military source told Daily NK this morning, “At 1AM on the night of the 18th a ‘Special Guard’ order was handed down to the unit. All officers who had finished work were recalled to the base and have been on emergency duty ever since.”
“At the time even commanding officers did not know about the contents of the order, and as per the order to completely close the border, normal patrols in groups of two were stepped up to groups of four. We only learned that the General had died from special broadcasts,” the source added.
Thus, it is clear that the North Korean authorities took steps to avert civilian unrest and potential mass defection attempts by shutting down the border and reinforcing patrols prior to announcing Kim’s death.
Third update: NK Shuts Down on News of Death http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk01500&num=8552 [dailynk.com]
Following the official announcement of Kim Jong Il's death today, North Korea has imposed rigid social controls, including the complete closure of markets.
An inside source told Daily NK this lunchtime, "The jangmadang is closed and people are not allowed to go outside. Local Party secretaries are issuing special commands through local Union of Democratic Women unit chairwomen, and the chairwomen have been gathered at district offices for emergency meetings."
According to the source, National Security Agency and People’s Safety Ministry agents have been deployed in streets and alleyways to control civilian movements. There have not been any signs of public unrest to date.
Kim Jong Il's sudden death has apparently caught people off-guard, the source revealed, commenting, "Nobody had the slightest idea about the General’s death even right before they saw the broadcast. You can hear the sound of wailing outside."
That news agency gets the majority of their info by cell phone conversation with North Koreans who live along the Chinese/Russian border, which is how we're able to get updates from the inside.
Re:69, 70, by some.... (Score:5, Informative)
When talking to a Korean, I've found it more efficient to just ask what year they were born. Avoids a ton of confusion.
Re:Respectfully (Score:2, Informative)
Re:And now the danger begins (Score:4, Informative)
Un is going to have to prove himself to the people.
And the northern suburbs of Seoul are well within reach of artillery. Lets hope Kim Jong Un isn't that stupid.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
Look, don't be an idiot and make fun of Asians and their general problems speaking proper English. I'm pretty sure you'd sound like an idiot when trying to speak an Asian language.
Besides - it's just razy lacism.
Erm, its a joke from Team America, you know, that comedy movie.
As a person who speaks Thai, yes I know there are a lot of sounds that are very difficult to get, not to mention getting your head and tongue around the tonal part of the language, mai is a common word, it has five meanings depending on if it's said in high, low, mid, rising or falling tones. Compared to Thai, Korean is a very simple language so dont preach to me sunshine.
Oh and please stop being such a humourless git.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
That's what the papers said, we all know in truth he died from rownriness.
You know the joke is that Koreans can say the 'L' sound, it is the Japanese who don't use it in their own language. Like a lot of that film is was supposed to show up the general ignorance of Americans about the world, but I suppose it was a bit too subtle and the joke whooshed over people's heads. Don't feel too bad though, most British people didn't get it either.
For the record, I got the original joke.
Now, in fact, Japanese doesn't use the same sounds as English "l" (lateral alveolar approximant) or "r" (alveolar approximant), but rather something reasonably different from both: a retroflex tap. However, as Japanese uses this to transliterate or approximate the pronunciation of both sounds in English, we tend to hear a discrepancy between both, and usually interpret this as the sound corresponding to an allophone for the other. So, English speakers tend to hear a Japanese person saying "r" instead of what we expect "l", but equally tend to hear a Japanese person saying "l" instead of what we expect "r".
Getting to Korean, they actually only have one phoneme for "l" and "r" as well, but it works differently from how it does in Japanese, in that the two sounds are distinct, but they are just allophones of each other. Thus while a Korean can typically pronounce "lice" just fine, they cannot typically properly pronounce "kilo-", instead using a flap instead of a lateral approximant. Meanwhile they will typically pronounce "rice" as "lice", and "aria" as a flap instead of an approximant.
Finally, Chinese has two phonemes that are interpreted as "l" and "r". The lateral approximant ("l") being typical, but the "r" phoneme corresponding with a voiced retroflex sibilant. English speakers typically interpret the latter as an "r"-ish sound, because it is retroflex, but in Russian, the phoneme is considered a "zh" noise similar to the "s" in "pleasure". This could cause Chinese speakers to approximate the "r" sound with an "l", rather than their voiced retroflex sibilant which orthographically appears closer, but actually shares little in common.
So this "Asians can't pronounce 'l's" has some basis in ... well, I'll call it pseudo-fact. In reality, all the languages disagree a lot about "l"s and "r"s proper, so much so that English's IPA transcription usually renders the alveolar approximant as an alveolar trill; a completely different form of articulation, that neither American English nor British English actually use! There are actually about 11 different forms of articulations (according to the IPA) that correspond to "r"s and "l"s in various languages, and none of the languages precisely agree about how to divide them up properly, because a language usually only ever interprets two phonemes out of all of them, but some as low as one (Japanese and Korean), or some even up to three (Spanish). So, once you start adding up the possible combinations of "what is r?" and "what is l?" you get into pretty murky waters quite quickly.
Call me crazy (Score:4, Informative)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding "120" and "millions"
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_die_from_starvation_each_year_in_America [answers.com]
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's a big deal (Score:2, Informative)