Patriot Act Clouds Picture For Tech

Harperdog writes "Politico has a piece on how the Patriot Act is interfering with U.S. firms trying to do business overseas in the area of cloud computing. Here's a quote: 'The Sept. 11-era law was supposed to help the intelligence community gather data on suspected terrorists. But competitors overseas are using it as a way to discourage foreign countries from signing on with U.S. cloud computing providers like Google and Microsoft: Put your data on a U.S.-based cloud, they warn, and you may just put it in the hands of the U.S. government.'"

Probably, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

...you put it anywhere on the "cloud", and it's one mis-step away from being everywhere.

Yep

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't matter if you comply with EU data protection rules, we still don't trust you.

A new way?

[TheRaven64]

No, this isn't new, it's an argument that's been used since the USAPATRIOT Act passed. Well, maybe they're saying 'cloud' instead of 'costing' or 'colocation'. The other good argument is 'the USA has no data protection laws so if you do business in the EU and host your data in the USA then you're opening yourself up to potential liability'.

Well why not?

[Pastor Jake]

Friends,

I don't understand these companies' hesitance when deciding to do business with US-based companies. Sure, the data may need to be seen by the government, but we aren't China; the data will be kept safe while our researchers are doing God's work by looking for pedophiles, rapists, and terrorists. Perhaps they could even insert biblical references into the cloud, in order to spread the Word to those who would not otherwise hear it.

Your Friend,
Jake

Goes both ways

[Pozican]

American companies are scared their data might land in china and copied. This is only news in that the US is turning into the same crazy police state that we've thought was limited to china and north korea.

'Warn' ?

[unity100]

do they even need to 'warn' ? previous incidents and documents that are in the open shows that u.s. govt, police, secret service, departments etc can wantonly request data from these services and get it. many of these, we discussed here.

Who can blame them?

[Calibax]

Four thoughts:

They may well be right in thinking their data will be more accessible to the US government.

If I were an overseas competitor, I'd certainly use this as a reason to not to use a US provider. In a heartbeat.

The law of unintended consequences bites the US yet again.

This wouldn't be an issue if the US government hadn't acted the way it has over the last 10 years. The US government has so little trust overseas that people have no trouble thinking the worst of it. Karma is a bitch.

As a European

[Anonymous Coward]

But competitors overseas are using it as a way to discourage foreign countries from signing on with U.S. cloud computing providers like Google and Microsoft

It's not just competitors highlighting that important fact! As a European, I personally don't want my data to fall into the wrong hands, and the hands of the US corporation-state are most definitely wrong.

We're MUCH safer then the other guy... TRUST us...

[zarmanto]

Salesman: "That's right, since we don't operate within the borders of those capitalist pig Americans, we're way more trustworthy then them... We absolutely promise that we'll never give away your data to the US government, no matter how many times they ask us.
Customer: That's great... but what about your own government? Do you ever give data up to them?
Salesman: Huh? Well, of course not! At least, not without a court order, anyway... or a law which says we have to for some reason.
Customer: Ah... So how is that different from the US based companies again?
Salesman: Ummm... but... capitalist pigs... ummm...
Customer: I see. Well, this has been very illuminating indeed. I'll get back to you on my decision real soon.
Salesman: ............... Wait... what just happened?

Re:what's the problem?

[forkfail]

You don't mind me having a look around your house, do you? Oh, don't bother letting your wife know that we're going to be in - wouldn't want to bother her or anything. What? You don't want strangers poking around? What are you hiding?

Re:what's the problem?

[Aryden]

Because my data, that I do not willingly give to you, should not be accessed by you. It's really that simple. I put things out there so that I can access them easier while I am out and about, not for you, your government, my government, hackers or advertisers to access it. This goes the same with any business in the world. There may be cheap, reliable cloud systems for storing data that will benefit the business, but hinder or harm it if it gets out into the wild. The government should not be able to access the records of foreign business and or foreign citizens without the correct due process that is afforded not only by our constitution, but also by the laws of the business' / citizen's country of residence.

Re:Yep

[GrumpySteen]

Would you kindly step up the enforcement, then? We all know that the US government isn't going to listen to it's citizens, but it's just as obvious that they listen to corporations. Maybe if Amazon, Google and a few other major cloud storage providers take a huge hit, they'll tell the government to fix the situation.

No kidding

[Sycraft-fu]

This seems like trying to spin a general fact of life in terms of "the cloud" (a term I dislike) in to an anti-US thing.

Your data is subject to being looked at by whoever controls it. Doesn't matter if they are supposed to, they can. The idea that the US government is the only one that looks in on data in their country is quite silly.

Also to expand on your bribery note, this could well be done by the government too in any country, but not as direct bribery: Find an employee who is patriotic to your country at the service, recruit them, and use them to get access to data you want. Could be quite easy since even a very moral person might agree. The government sells them on the idea that they need this access for legit work and it is just much quicker and cheaper to do it back channel rather than via the courts.

Basically if you give up your data to someone else, you have to understand that means others can have access. That is going to include their government. Don't think this is unique to the US. Other countries participate in the intelligence game just as much. Look up some information on the British Security Service or Secret Intelligence Service, or the French DGSE.

Re:what's the problem?

[bmo]

The fascists rely on the Just World fallacy to back up their arguments.

The world is just. Shit happens to you because you did something wrong.

It's a load of horse-shit.

--
BMO

Re:Who can blame them?

[Synerg1y]

Obama's done right and wrong and isn't a saint by a long shot, however it's going to take time to undo the damage bush caused, him leaving office does not immediately end wars and fix global depressions.

Re:Well why not?

[Grishnakh]

It's not anti-theist, it's anti USA-theism. Europe has plenty of Christians, after all, as do many other parts of the world, but Christianity as it's practiced in the USA is a very weird and disturbing mix of fundamentalist religion and politics. After all, you can go into any typical American "evangelical Christian" (aka fundamentalist) church and they'll preach about how the USA needs to wage wars in various countries, how you (the congregation) needs to vote for these particular politicians, how we need to worship The Invisible Hand, how rich people are better people than the rest of us because God has blessed them with so much money and "success", etc. Now obviously, not all Christians in America believe this crap, but the numbers of fundies has actually outgrown the number of "mainstream" Protestants in the USA, and they are a very strong political force (esp. since they are so politically involved, unlike most other religions). This of course is completely different from the types of Christianity practiced in Europe for example, where fundamentalism is almost non-existent.