Need a Receipt On Taxes? The Federal Tax Receipt 642
ndogg writes "The White House has opened up a tool that lets you see where your tax dollars are being spent. I put my numbers in and it showed that a little over a quarter goes towards defense and military spending (I'm not sure I'm getting my money's worth on that one), and a little under a quarter for health care." I'm sure readers (and think tanks of various stripes) will have some alternative narratives, too. For readers elsewhere; it's tax season here in the US.
4.8% on education, 1.2% science, 30% on military (Score:5, Informative)
If we cut 90%, we'd be the world's second-highest spender.
If we cut back 95%, we'd be 10th.
Re:Not getting money's worth on defense spending? (Score:4, Informative)
That's insane. Out of Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the US constitution
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
You do realize that Defence isn't any more special than general welfare, right?
Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean that it's not in the constitution. Considering that the constitution specifically authorizes the Federal Government to tax to pay for the general Welfare of the United States, I think it's pretty clear that the constitution grants the power.
US taxes are designed to punish the responsible (Score:3, Informative)
I don't like paying taxes, because I don't like paying for everyone else's unearned security. Out of my own pocket, I have saved a six months emergency fund in the bank that could sustain my family for six months should I lose my job. But apparently I'm the only one left who actually saves for a rainy day, because all my medicare taxes go to medicare, and then on top of that an additional 24.3% of my general taxes go to healthcare (again, much of that amount medicare and medicaid), another 21.9% goes to job and family security (unemployment, housing, foodstamps, unearned income credit, etc), and another 5% goes to education and job training. So 100% of my medicare taxes, plus 46.2% of my general taxes go to pay for people who won't provide for themselves and won't save for their own security and/or made poor decisions.
And don't even get me started on social security... I pay through the nose for a system that won't be there when I retire (because it is a ponzi scheme) because a bunch of entitled baby boomers didn't bother to save anything for retirement and are going to bankrupt the whole thing. I actually save for my own retirement (imagine that), but it's pretty hard to get a lot together for that when the government takes almost 13% of my income by force to pay for the retirement of those who didn't bother to prepare for it.
And the worst part of it all? The government has no legal right to fund anything on the list I just mentioned, as none of those things are in the constitution. The military spending is one of the only things on that tax receipt that is actually constitutional (not saying it can't be cut, because it probably should be, but I think we should start with the unconstitutional programs that reward irresponsibility and punish the responsible).
Re:I like paying taxes (Score:2, Informative)
I also pay taxes; with them I buy lobbyists and fear-mongers civilization.
And you're not getting health care (Score:5, Informative)
In other countries, a quarter of their taxes goes to health care, but then they actually get health care for that! It's very sad that in the US, you can pay just as much, yet that only covers old people and poor people and politicians.
I've lived in 3 countries -- UK, Canada, and USA -- and the health care in UK and Canada is a billion times better than in the US. The doctors here in the US spend about half their energy finding funding for whatever care they want to provide, and people here routinely walk around sick and with untreated wounds and diseases. Even people who "have insurance." And people who live on the Canadian or Mexican border cross the border to get health care or buy pharmaceuticals routinely. It's just amazingly sad.
Re:Not getting money's worth on defense spending? (Score:3, Informative)
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." -- James Madison, letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
(Hint: there is a lot of sarcasm in this quote): "If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress. ⦠Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." -- James Madison, speech to Congress, 6 Feb. 1792
"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." -- Thomas Jefferson [emphasis mine]
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -- James Madison
"... the government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." -- James Madison
I could go on. But I think my point is made.
Re:Not getting money's worth on defense spending? (Score:5, Informative)
Think for yourself. Research the original sources; don't just grab sound bites off fringe libertarian blogs or wherever you pasted that from t is 1:30 AM, so I am not going to teach you too much history, but be assured that the Hamiltonian view of the general welfare clause was pretty much operative from the beginning, from Washington's administration on. The Jefferson and Madison administrations don't change that.
Re:US taxes are designed to punish the responsible (Score:2, Informative)
You do realize that the people collecting the "unearned income" actually paid into it too, right?
Additionally, the pensions of government employees was paid for in part by paying them less while they were actually working. If you were to remove the benefits, most government employees are paid pretty poorly and would likely have trouble hiring.
Education and job training tend to return more than they cost. That is, the cost of educational grants and loans is dwarfed by the increased tax revenue from the more highly educated individual.
I'm not sure where you get the 13% social security tax rate. In 2011, the maximum rate is 4.2% with a cap at 4485.60 (so averages somewhat less) Even if you were adding the employer's part, that's a maximum of 10.4% Since it caps at 11107 the actual average rate tends to be a bit lower.
Congrats on saving 6 months expenses. With average unemployment being 37 weeks right now, you'd only be completely broke for about 11 weeks before finding a job. Never let reality get in the way of a good rant.
Re:I like paying taxes (Score:5, Informative)
Re:US taxes are designed to punish the responsible (Score:4, Informative)
Some of those social programs are actually designed to avoid extreme misery to fellow human beings, because you know, after all we are all humans. You might feel mighty and strong now, but I would like to see that you speak with that same tone when you are old, become disabled or sick somehow. Individuality is good but you should change that mentality of not wanting to give anything to help others. It's part of helping your nation helping those who cannot help themselves.
Re:All defense and health care (Score:5, Informative)
What seems incredible to me is you're paying more tax for healthcare than me, yet in my country I get healthcare that is free at the point of use and don't need health insurance at all.
I think I rather like my (pejoratively termed by right wingers in the US) "socialist health care system". It's certainly way cheaper on my tax take and neither I nor my employer don't have to pay for insurance on top of that.
I therefore have to agree 100%: your health care system sounds as if it needs reform.
Re:Not getting money's worth on defense spending? (Score:5, Informative)
I've never seen such pig ignorance.
The Supreme Court affirmed Hamilton's point of view both in Helvering vs Davis and Steward Machine Company vs Davis. The Supreme Court's view is that Congress is entitled to an expansive definition of "general welfare," and may seek to promote it through many means, including its prodigious taxing and spending power.
My pathetic, deluded friend, you should have learned this in middle school. What is going on in your screwed up country that so few understand their own laws and government? Granted, I did well in American history, but I still expect AMERICANS to know SOMETHING about it.
Re:You are welcome to pay more. Here's how (Score:3, Informative)
Please, enlighten the world, what in your estimation constitutes a 'reasonable amount'? Please.
Should it be percentage of their total wealth?
Should it be percentage of their earnings?
Is, say, 49% good enough?
Is it supposed to be 79%?
Is it 99%?
Do you know how much you pay today if you earn more than 500Kin Connecticut today? With 35% federal, 6.5% state (and the governor wants to push it up by a few points), FICA is really irrelevant then, because it's capped at first 100K, but 2.9% Medicare tax is applied on the ENTIRE amount. This is only the income taxes, can you do the addition?
Add to this the existing gas and other consumption taxes, levies and excise taxes, import and property taxes, you get to over 50%. The serfs of the past paid 25% to their lords. Why are people today being treated worse than serfs? Why do people today have to have their taxes cut in half at least to get to the level of serfs?
What is fair? Why should anybody pay any taxes based on income rather than on consumption? After all, money that is earned but not spent is reinvested, shouldn't investment be rewarded rather than consumption? Of-course it should, but not in an economy based on government subsidized spending through borrowed and printed money, gov't doesn't want savings - it wants spending, thus it subsidizes spending in various asset classes and creates bubbles in them, all this while printing money so that it doesn't have to pay its debts back in real money but in printed funny money (and this adds an additional inflation tax on your entire US dollar denominated holdings).
Real question is: who in their right mind is still paying taxes in USA and why should they do that at all? I think everybody should stop paying income taxes yesterday.
Re:You are welcome to pay more. Here's how (Score:5, Informative)
Do you know how much you pay today if you earn more than 500Kin Connecticut today? With 35% federal, 6.5% state (and the governor wants to push it up by a few points), FICA is really irrelevant then, because it's capped at first 100K, but 2.9% Medicare tax is applied on the ENTIRE amount. This is only the income taxes, can you do the addition?
The problem is it's not entirely additive. That 35% number you quote for federal is only for the amount above $380k (when the 35% bracket kicks in). People often quote the highest rate as if that's the total tax for the entire amount. This often comes up when people talk about taxes 50 years ago at 90% tax rates. The problem with this is that taxes are progressive so quoting the highest rate is misleading.
If you want to talk about taxes due, you should be calculating the effective tax rate, not the top tax rate. On $500k it's about 29% with no deductions (which everyone gets). Start there and your point would have more weight.