A Single Re-Tweet Lands Chinese Woman in Labor Camp 273
lee1 writes "A woman in China has been sentenced to a year of 're-education' in a labor camp for the crime of 'disrupting social order' after retweeting a joke on Twitter (which is entirely banned in China, but popular nonetheless). Cheng Jianping had repeated a Twitter comment suggesting that nationalist protesters smash Japan's pavilion at the Shanghai Expo, adding the words 'Charge, angry youth.' At the time, China and Japan were feuding over a group of uninhabited islands in the East China Sea, and groups of young Chinese had been demonstrating against Japan, smashing Japanese products; the tweet amounted to gentle chiding of the protesters. Ms. Cheng may also have been targeted because she is a human rights activist: she had signed petitions calling for the release of China's jailed Nobel Peace Prize winner Liu Xiaobo. She has been detained in the past for several other 'crimes,' including criticizing China's Communist Party."
Public service annoucement (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are a political activist in any country (not just China), don't post things publicly that are unrelated to your cause. Don't post things electronically that are or could be considered illegal, or be used as blackmail material. Remember that you are not representing yourself anymore, you are representing your cause. Everything you say and do will be put under a microscope, and the internet never forgets and never forgives mistakes.
Now that that's out of the way: China, you suck.
awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
you know, the snide comments "well, its almost just as bad/ the same/ worse in the usa/ uk/ western nation"
no
it actually isn't
when you confuse hyperbole and reality, you are no longer commenting intelligently, you are merely broadcasting your ignorance
{Yawn} (Score:5, Insightful)
Who cares about the human cost as long as we can continue to get cheap electronics, right?
anonymize. sheesh. (Score:1, Insightful)
Anonymity exists for a reason. Not using it if you want to post messages not liked by a repressive government is idiotic.
Re:Athletes get fined for things like this (Score:3, Insightful)
Or the UK, where you get arrested for suggesting you might blow up an airport on Twitter.
Re:hate speech is NOT protected anywhere. (Score:3, Insightful)
No, the KKK were arrested for ACTING upon incitement toward violence.
The KKK are allowed to march and yell in public, openly, as is any group like that, so long as they obtain
a parade permit, WHICH THEY CAN, in the US.
But if you break the law, like, oh, I dunno, KILL PEOPLE, commit arson, violate labor laws, intimidate employers...
such as what got the Klansmen in question in the parent post put in prison...
in China, you'd be the government. In the US, you're arrested.
Re:Athletes get fined for things like this (Score:3, Insightful)
Really. Well I guess its not like in the U.S. where a sports athlete will be fined at least 20 grand for posting nothing out of the ordinary. AKA Terrel Owens, Randy Moss
The fact of the matter is - if you have money in a bank account, and some spare change, you are better off than the majority of China, and most of the rest of the world.
China is the abusive boyfriend of the G8+5. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:We in the West are so much more... oh wait (Score:5, Insightful)
Its one thing to post a joke bomb threat and have the cops show up. Possibly give you some misdemeanor.
Its another thing to post a joke and have the cops pick you up and put you in a labour camp.
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:2, Insightful)
The Chinese are just one upping the west and I can see the west about to catch up. Have you ever heard of court ordered sensitivity training?
Where the hell else would I broadcast my ignorance than Slashdot. Now get off my lawn.
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Except, I don't think most of the people making such statements are *really* idiots who don't get the obvious differences. I think (well, hope at least!) it's a matter of trying to caution/wake up people that nations like the United States are headed down a path that leads there, ultimately, if we don't stop and look at where we're going!
Just this morning, I heard a couple of radio DJs doing their show, and despite their repeated insistence on taking a "libertarian outlook on things" in the past? These guys were obviously defending the full body scanners and pat-down searches at our airports! Their opinion, basically, was one of, "Come on! Someone having a grainy picture of your genitals is no big deal! I'd rather they see that than someone getting a bomb on my airline flight!", coupled with, "Like the TSA says... If you don't like it, just don't fly!"
That mentality is EXACTLY what gets us ever closer to Chinese style government and censorship, people!
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Sir (or ma'am), I truly wish I had mod points.
In America, you can say whatever the hell you want about the government -- even if it is slanderous, false, crazy, whatever -- and unless you are directly threatening to kill somebody, you can get away with it. That is NOTHING like a totalitarian government. If the Obama administration was really like China, Fox News would have been squashed a long time ago, and media types like Beck and Limbaugh would be quickly losing weight in a rock quarry somewhere.
Re:hate speech is NOT protected anywhere. (Score:5, Insightful)
Possibly because it didn't happen? Klan members were arrested and imprisoned for crimes they commited (murder among them), but they still exist today and hold public rallies and events without being imprisoned for speaking.
You seem to be confusing hate-speech with hate-crimes. Going up on a stage and saying that "group X is a bunch of subhuman degenerates" is certainly hateful, but you have the right to do it. Going on stage and saying "group X is a bunch of subhuman degenerates" while beating a member of group-X with a club is a hate crime, and will carry different penalties than just beating someone with a club would normally.
Re:{Yawn} (Score:2, Insightful)
So what type of device are you posting on, and where do you think it and/or the majority of its components are made?
Re:Athletes get fined for things like this (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a difference in degree, not kind; not a fundamental difference, but surely much less unpleasant to undergo.
Remember to put "Twitter" in every headline (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
EXACTLY!!! How is that American citizens can be treated with less regard than a captured member of the Taliban? How is it that a sexual assault is now necessary and endorsed in order to board a plane? And just try boarding a plane without the sexual assault and you're likely to be shot at, imprisoned, put on a no-fly list, and your life will be essentially ruined by the government, forever, all because you're trying to retain your rights and dignity.
And people want to talk about how bad China is because it makes them feel superior and that they somehow have it better here. Well, in many cases you do not. Elsewhere, you're likely to recieve better healthcare, you're likely to recieve a better education and you're likely to live in country with more equal footing between you and your boss.
And the country won't be entirely run by corporations focused only on greed. Please, tell me how much better off you are here in the Paranoid USA.
Re:Public service annoucement (Score:2, Insightful)
So you feel that political activism and a personal online life are mutually exclusive?
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at the Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prisoner_population_rate_UN_HDR_2007_2008.PNG [wikipedia.org]
The U.S. just has a different spin on "freedom". Did you catch the video of the TSA assaulting the 3-year-old and the father standing helplessly while it happened for fear of being arrested? Do you suppose in China they watch videos of Americans being waterboarded, or stories about U.K. police gunning innocent people down in the subway?
There's no shortage of ugly propaganda on both sides. Don't think China is so bad, and don't think the U.S. is so good. It's all somewhere in the middle, on both sides.
Re:asdf (Score:4, Insightful)
Soon America will be like this, if we don't start electing politicians who remove, rather than add laws.
Are you advocating something or just whining? (Score:4, Insightful)
I get a little tired of the bitching about China's human rights problems not because they aren't problems, but because people seem to just like to bitch rather than suggest what might be done. See the US can't just make China play nice and respect human rights that movie about Team America: World Police was a comedy/satire, not a documentary, if the puppets didn't give that away. The US can't just police China.
Now, the US could of course do things like refuse to trade or embargo China. Ok, ignoring any consequences to the US itself, what makes you think that would work? What evidence is there that wold do any good? It has been tried time and time again and never seems to improve conditions in countries, only make them worse. That isn't to say it cannot be a useful tool for security related issues, but it doesn't seem to do anything good human rights related.
In fact a rather strong argument can be made that the only way China will get better at human rights is if their own citizens demand it. They will have to force the change internally. Like with most things in human nature, people have to want to change before you can help them change. You can then also argue the best thing that the US can do for that is to keep as much free and open trade as possible. With free trade comes free information. though the Central Committee might not like it, they can't just cut off the flow of information, it would hurt business.
Free trade with China is producing dramatic increases in the standard of living for many people, and has actually improved the human rights situation from what it was. It is far, FAR from good but it is a hell of a lot better than when the great leap "forward" happened.
There's a strong argument that the best thing we can do is just to trade freely and make all our information and culture available. If you've a different suggestion then let's hear it as well as the defense for it, but please less with the hand-wringing.
Re:Wow, let's do this in the USA! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Public service annoucement (Score:3, Insightful)
So you feel that political activism and a personal online life are mutually exclusive?
Yes, actually.
Re:hate speech is NOT protected anywhere. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Public service annoucement (Score:3, Insightful)
Which just goes back to basic politics: The strongest win.
Re:Public service annoucement (Score:5, Insightful)
In a dictatorship, anything can be illegal at the whims of those who rule.
Re:Athletes get fined for things like this (Score:2, Insightful)
Are you fucking serious? That bitch was slapped with contempt of court because she was both nasty enough to decide the defendant she'd sworn to judge impartially was guilty before the defence had even been made, and stupid enough to post that on facebook. That wasn't about expressing an opinion, it was about openly declaring her intention to put someone in jail unjustly. Being on a jury is incredibly serious business.
Re:asdf (Score:5, Insightful)
Every time you elect a lawyer to elective office you are guaranteed that you will get a flood of redundant, contradictory, unenforceable & expensive laws, thereby ensuring the perpetual employment of their colleagues who are paid handsomely to unravel, defend against & prosecute this utterly pointless bullshit!
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:3, Insightful)
It is just as bad, it's just not the same kind of bad. China is very public about their activities, whereas western nations prefer smear campaigns, false charges, and complex bureaucratic procedures to blunt the minds of their critics and dampen or perhaps entirely dissipate, protest of its policies. Just because China does in public what other countries do in private does not make the other countries worse.
The United States has the highest per capita imprisonment rate of any first world country, and a larger execution rate than China despite having a far lower population.
Re:asdf (Score:4, Insightful)
How is this modified as a troll? This is the writing on the wall and it will be too late to be disappointed once it has come to pass.
Re:Kudos for unbiased reporting (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Do those camps even work? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's sort of like how America's medieval-style prisons are called the "correctional system".
Re:Athletes get fined for things like this (Score:4, Insightful)
That has what to do with the U.S. government now?
It's stupid?
You are all missing the point (Score:2, Insightful)
Ms. Cheng is pretty hot.
Re:Why is crime in scare-quotes? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:2, Insightful)
assuming you are in the united states, i see that you are enjoying your constitutionally protected right to criticize the government. i am glad you are able to do so. i defend your right to criticize the usa, even though i disagree with your analysis
mainly because you seem to be forgetting that if you were in china, and you said these things about china on a continual basis, you would show up on the screens of the nice party folk who review and screen statements made on the internet for political content, and if you didn't learn to shut up, you would eventually get a pleasant knock on your door. this isn't hyperbole. this is truth and reality
even so, you might bluster that this is the same in the usa: that all email is collected and screened, etc. certainly for things like child pornography or genuine violent terrorist activities, but the proof that this doesn't really concern you is that you went ahead and wrote what you said on slashdot, certain that stating your negative beliefs about the usa would not harm you. and this is true: it won't, and your statements shouldn't harm you, and this is good and as it should be. because political speech is not the same subject matter as child pornography or genuinely talking of violent acts you intend to perform... right? i am certain you are someone intelligent enough to understand the difference
but i wonder if you would have the same level of character and backbone to say the things you say, about the chinese government instead, in china. when, if your feelings are real and true as written above, then your feelings would obviously be even more impassioned and inflamed since the rights violations there are obviously more severe. or maybe you would just clam up, and be a good little citizen? is it perhaps there is no real character in your remarks, only a lot of chicken hawk chest thumping, and no real understanding or sense of proportion? a lot of people in this world are able to cry out in high holy indignation quite vehemently, mainly to stroke their own egos, but without the slightest bit of genuine intent and integrity that they will actually fight for what they say is so important to them
all supposition aside, in the end, to me, you're just someone who is ignorant. who doesn't understand the difference between the two political and social environments of china and the usa. you only point to a cognitive failure on your part to really understand exactly what it is you are talking about. and the unfortunate truth of free speech is that you oftentimes find the loudest people in the room are also usually also the dumbest. but this is a small price to pay for true free speech
again, as i said, enjoy your right to criticize the usa. as an american, i welcome and i support your right to do whatever you want, say whatever you want, and criticize the usa and its government all you want, however hperbolic, hysterical and ignorant the basis for your remarks. because people like you bother me a lot less that people who slavishly follow the official party line. many in china do, because they are under real threat of serious punishment if they didn't
that you don't understand this is why you are no credit at all to the rights you think you are fighting for, and really you are only demonstrating you don't even understand those rights
Re:But (Score:2, Insightful)
What a load of crap.
The end does not justify the means. That mindset just builds a degrading loop of power hunger that corrupts more and more.
Re:Kudos for unbiased reporting (Score:3, Insightful)
He's a libertarian. You can't argue with them based on things like facts and evidence. They believe that governments are the cause of all evil, and that without governments keeping them in check corporations will be warm and fluffy.
See jcr? It works better when you use an ad hominem as well as a straw man.
Re:Public service annoucement (Score:2, Insightful)
You're aware that PRC imprisons and persecutes Nobel Prize winners and their families, among vast numbers of other state perceived crimes against its lesser citizens (I use the term loosely)?
Comparing illegalities like kiddie porn to the crimes of totalitarian regimes. Slick.
Re:awaiting the equivalency idiots (Score:1, Insightful)
Because in the communist regimes, typically if you make a security fuss somewhere important, you will be quietly removed form the crowd (perhaps drugged, as has been demonstrated on old Soviet video clips of people in hysterics being 'tended to' by a nurse who sneaks in behind them with a syringe) and, if it's at all convenient to do so... ...you simply cease to exist. Where's Waldo? *typing* "Central computers have no record of Waldo. You must be delusional. We recommend you go home and stop filing false reports before we jail you for it."
Re:asdf (Score:3, Insightful)