House Calls For Hearing On Stock Market "Glitch" 180
Posted
by
timothy
from the hands-on-the-tables-gentlemen dept.
from the hands-on-the-tables-gentlemen dept.
Lucas123 writes "The House Financial Services securities subcommittee plans to hold a hearing next Tuesday to examine what caused the US stock market to plunge almost 1,000 points in a half hour Thursday, and it called on the SEC to investigate possible problems with computer algorithms that may have exacerbated a human order-entry error and led to the precipitous drop. 'Reports have surfaced that much of this movement was potentially as a result of a computer glitch,' Committee Chairman Kanjorski said. 'We cannot allow a technological error to spook the markets and cause panic. This is unacceptable. In this day and age and with the use of such complex technology, we should be able to make sure that our financial markets are effectively monitored and investors are protected.'"
Its strange. (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean.. they *have* the logs, i hope. I mean they *have* some software anyway which does data-mining to analyze for unusual things....
Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
Protection... (Score:3, Insightful)
"This is unacceptable. In this day and age and with the use of such complex technology, we should be able to make sure that our financial markets are effectively monitored and investors are protected." ... because protectig investors is more important than protecting the economy.
cancelled orders more than 60% off (Score:5, Insightful)
Who decides that? And what happens to a smart invester that buys stock at $0.01 that usually trades at $40, to quickly later sell it at $30? Will the $0.01 buys be cancelled, but the $30 sells not be cancelled? But that would leave you with a short position, having to buy them back at $40. May be very expensive.
Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you suggesting we shouldn't have a hearing for it?
All hearings are these days is a convoluted way for politicos to take cheap shots at someone to boost their popularity at home.
Re:Its strange. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
I see two solutions:-
1) Go 100% computerised and just throw in the odd random factor to keep things moving. After all, it's all one big random gamble anyway, may as well just admit it.
2) Rip out all the computers and have the traders actually buy and sell real tangible things again.
Markets = buttoned up betting tables (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Jusy like supply and demand (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:cancelled orders more than 60% off (Score:1, Insightful)
You are exactly right. The later sale would potentially NOT be cancelled if deemed "fair" and you would be left short from a horrible position. They will not "roll-back" subsequent transactions.
If you are fishing for out-of-market orders like that and think that they might be broken by the exchange then simply do not cover your position until a ruling is made. If you are buying at $0.01 then your downside is VERY limited. :) The exchanges only breaking trades that are 60% away or more is pretty lenient when the market was only (only being relative here) ~10% down during the worst part. However, it was also noted that the exchanges had discretion to break other trades that they felt were sufficiently out-of-market.
The real people who got screwed are the retail guys who had stop orders out there an got stopped out of positions are awful prices, only to have the market come right back up.
Re:Protection... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah .... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's something for the politicians to do to continue painting a big red X on Wall Street so they can take it over and control it themselves. I'm beginning to think Congress' job is to take over things and run them in a constant state of deficient funds.
Re:force selling to catalyse volatility ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Precisely. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Lots of OTHER people had automatic buy orders kick in when the stocks dropped, and they _made_ money on the deal. Would you be crying for them if the drop turned out to be long-term instead of ephemeral? Volatility is one of the risks of being in the stock market. You bet that any severe drop would be long-term, and you lost. They bet it would be ephemeral, and they won. I bet neither way (I have stock which dropped and recovered on Thursday, but no automatic orders) and came out roughly even.
If you want to be invested in equity but want someone else to manage the day-to-day risk, there are plenty of companies which will do that for you. You will of course have to accept a lower expected rate of return in exchange for the reduced risk.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
And, on the unlikely event that it *is* true, its all the more reason to HAVE a hearing because anyone can legitimately crash the stock market by simply making a trade.
You seem to have a misconception as to what the market is. It is simply a room (either physical, electronic, or both) in which buyers and sellers make trades. That's all it is. So, saying its unreasonable for a single trade to crash the stock market is a bit like saying its unreasonable for a single command like "sudo rm -rf /" to crash your computer.
Re:Suggestion (Score:4, Insightful)
First of all, stop losses are not a "strategy", they are a tactic. My strategy is to invest in solid, widely traded, predominantly blue chip companies or in broad indices via ETFs. None of these types of investments should gyrate 10% in value in a matter of minutes because that means hundreds of billions or even trillions of dollars are vanishing and/or appearing. Of course, sometimes oil wells explode and big companies can take an instantaneous hit in their market cap (stop losses salvaged a year's gains on my BP stock just one week ago). Those types of events are fortunately rare, affect one or a small group of companies and are what stop losses are mostly for. Thursday was more like a magician's trick. One minute the trillion dollars is in his left hand. Then a blink later it's in his right. I suppose it doesn't matter to you that the "left hand" was largely small investors like me and the "right hand" was hedge funds, high frequency programmed traders and banks, but to me something smells rotten.
How exactly does micro-penny programmed trading accomplish this? Positions are bought and sold in microseconds skimming micropennies on each share transacted. The computer with the fastest network access wins. This, you assert, is efficient allocation of capital? This is good because it transfers capital from "panicky emotional investors" to people who will better allocate it? What is the real economic benefit of this activity, because one undeniable side affect of it is to distort and destabilize the market.
I very rarely find myself in favor of increased regulation, but in this case I think the rules do indeed need to be changed. If the majority of people lose faith in the market capital allocation will be severely and negatively impacted.
Re:cancelled orders more than 60% off (Score:3, Insightful)
Small guys are not making millisecond trades on the stock market. They might have a pension fund, they might invest long-term in a few companies. They're not sitting 16 hours a day at a super computer hooked right into the exchange, looking for things like this as a vulture watches for a wounded animal.
There's no 'punish' about it, if professional gamblers get their fingers burnt it's simply tough shit.
In this case, someone wanted to make an instant 300,000% profit by doing and creating nothing, just taking advantage of someone else's mistake.
Re:Do you want to make this multi-billion $ trade? (Score:3, Insightful)