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Iran Moves To End "Facebook Revolution" 838

We've had a few readers send in updates on the chaotic post-election situation in Iran. Twitter is providing better coverage than CNN at the moment. There are both tech and humanitarian angles to the story, as the two samples below illustrate. First, Hugh Pickens writes with a report from The Times (UK) that "the Iranian government is mounting a campaign to disrupt independent media organizations and Web sites that air doubts about the validity of the re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as the nation's president. Reports from Tehran say that social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter were taken down after Mr Ahmadinejad claimed victory. SMS text messaging, a preferred medium of communication for young Iranians, has also been disabled. 'The blocking of access to foreign news media has been stepped up, according to Reporters Without Borders. 'The Internet is now very slow, like the mobile phone network. YouTube and Facebook are hard to access and pro-reform sites... are completely inaccessible.'" And reader momen abdullah sends in one of the more disturbing Ask Slashdots you are likely to see. "People, we need your urgent help in Iran. We are under attack by the government. They stole the election. And now are arresting everybody. They also filtered every sensitive Web page. But our problem is that they also block the SMS network and are scrambling satellite TVs. Please, can you help us to set up some sort of network using our home wireless access points? Can anybody show us a link on how to install small TV/radio stations? Any suggestion for setting up a network? Please tell us what to do or we are going to die in the a nuclear war between Iran and US." Update: 06/14 18:32 GMT by KD : Jim Cowie contributes a blog post from Renesys taking a closer look at the state of Iranian Internet transit, as seen in the aggregated global routing tables, and concluding that the story may not be as clear-cut as has been reported.
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Iran Moves To End "Facebook Revolution"

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  • Iran (Score:3, Interesting)

    by religious freak ( 1005821 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @02:24PM (#28327805)
    That's right Mr. theocratic dictator. Go ahead and keep pushing down the relatively minor calls for reform and watch in horror as the demands for freedom and civil discourse grow more and more demanding, and more and more "extreme". This is how true democracies begin.

    We got rid of our idiot leadership, now Iran looks to be doing the same.

    (Bush was terrible by just about any measure - I'm an independent voter and have voted for Dems and Repubs)
  • Re:HAM Radio (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Nethead ( 1563 ) <joe@nethead.com> on Sunday June 14, 2009 @02:39PM (#28327919) Homepage Journal

    WTF is "after the age of HAM"?

    The ham UHF digital voice repeater that is sitting next to me connected to a Linux gateway begs to differ with you.

    73, w7com

  • Re:Iran (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14, 2009 @02:40PM (#28327929)
    Please check your history. The American Revolution was over *who* controlled the tea trade, not how much tea cost. Imported tea from Britain was cheaper than the tea the colonial financiers could provide. These people bank-rolled the revolution because they had a financial interest in stopping the subsidised British tea import businesses. Nothing to do with freedom, all to do with finance. Not much changes.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14, 2009 @02:44PM (#28327967)
    But unless anyone is expecting Ahmadinejad to admit that he cheated, no solid official evidence is going to show up.

    Especially since he had help from his pal Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. The man disregarded the post-election buffer (three days, IIRC) used to look for any discrepancies in the presidential election, and declared Mahmoud president immediately after the vote counts were announced. Unfortunately for the peoples of Iran, the supervisory group that holds any sway over the Ayatollah was neutered to begin with, so yeah - those folks are fucked.
  • Use Ham/CB/FM Radio (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TheRagingTowel ( 724266 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @02:46PM (#28327989) Homepage
    I think that what momen abdullah is asking can be achieved using ham radio. Look for PSK31 for low-bandwith digital communications. Maybe "truckers" in Iran are using CB radio? You can use that as well, maybe hack it a bit. Anyway, building a simple 80-100MHz FM band transmitter is very easy to build, just hook it into a power amplifier for better coverage.
    Look at the first search result on google for "fm transmitter", this [zen.co.uk] is what i found. seems easy enough to build with easily attainable components.
  • by artor3 ( 1344997 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @02:46PM (#28327991)

    This election would have had little impact on foreign policy, but the Iranian president does have a lot of leeway on domestic matters. Under Ahmadinejad, inflation and unemployment have skyrocketted. Rather than try to take action to fix it, he just lies about the figures (easy to do, when you control the media). That was really a key issue in the "election".

    Of course, not having a Holocaust denier as president would probably help foreign relations a bit as well.

    (Yes I know he never comes out and denies it. He just "questions" it. A lot.)

  • by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @02:57PM (#28328067) Homepage

    I thought the idea of kicking out a dictatorship and allowing a democracy to flourish was a good idea.

    Yeah... that rarely works. You can't forceably make a democracy from the outside. A country has a dictatorship for a reason: when fear is the only path to stability. This is understandable in places where there are major social problems such as ethnic or religious strife combined with low standards of living. A dictatorship achieves stability at the cost of freedom.
    A better idea might be to work with the dictator to improve the standard of living. Bring in education and technology in exchange for diminishing the brainwashing. Once the society rises to a standard of living where they are enlightened enough to live in peace, under the rule of law instead of the rule of the fear, then democracy can begin.
    Ironically, the idea of invading other countries for humanitarian reasons is a very leftist concept. And one that George Bush denied during his bid for the presidential election. He said something like "If we'd just leave people alone, they might not hate us so much. We should stay out of their business." But the warhawks flipped his opinion 180 degrees, and the "conservatives" followed them. To this day, I am amazed when I hear American Republicans support the war. It is the exact opposite of their platform, but they blindly follow it even against their own philosophy.

    If the people of Iran want to get rid of their government, they can do it themselves.

    If they want help, I could understand the UN deciding to assist them. That is similar to what happened in Afghanistan - the UN forces assisted the Northern Alliance against the Taliban. But that is different from ousting the dictator without having been asked to assist.

  • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:20PM (#28328283) Journal
    It isn't that simple. A good portion of the country of Iran like their conservative government, and it is not impossible that Ahmadinejad won fairly. If there were a revolution based on this election, it would probably be the city dwellers in Tehran against the rural religious folk in most of the rest of the country. A violent revolution isn't realistic (although there are people who are trying).

    Gandhi wasn't absolutely against violence. He considered violence a tool of the weak. He said that if you don't have the courage, strength of heart, stamina and ahimsa (which roughly translates to love or charity), then you might do better with violence. Nonviolence is not easy, but in this case violence would probably not work.

    Besides, look at the bright side: Ahmadinejad will be easier to deal with from US perspective because he acts crazy. From the perspective of international politics, Moussavi is essentially the same as Ahmadinejad, except it will be harder for Ahmadinejad to garner the support of the world with some of the things he said (he managed to do so against Bush, but that's only because Bush matched him in the crazy department).
  • by cdrguru ( 88047 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:28PM (#28328331) Homepage

    As for nuclear war, I wouldn't worry too much about that. The US isn't going to strike first, and Iran lacks the technology to deliver nuclear payloads to the US. Also, as a practical matter while Iranian leadership seems to be oppressive and such, they aren't insane. I'm sure they full and well understand what the US response to a nuclear attack would be, and nobody wants to be the ruler of a glass parking lot.

    All it will take to deliver a nuclear weapon to the US is a ship. Maybe even just a container on a ship, routed through some other port. They certainly have that delivery capability.

    As for being the ruler of a glass parking lot, maybe not. But the rulers there care nothing for their civilian population, so whatever happens to them is a big "so?"

    What I would say is a more likely scenario is for them to set off a nuclear weapon on Israeli soil. Israel loses a city. The big question is, would the US step in to help, or would the US be more likely to say that this issue must be resolved by negotiation? Today, my guess is that either we would stand off and do nothing or try to talk Israel out of wiping Iran off the face of the Earth. Which Israel would likely want to do.

    And I am not clear what the US response would be to an attack here. If we lost something big and symbolic, say Washington DC when Mr. Obama wasn't home he might not have too many options. But I think he could write off Miami rather than being accused of starting a nuclear war, which some would do. Regardless of the fact of a first strike by another.

    I don't see Israel starting a nuclear war, but certainly they would finish one to the best of their ability.

  • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:28PM (#28328333) Journal

    The polls showed a dead heat between Ahmedinajad and his primary opponent just one day before the election.

    Really? All the news reports I read suggested that there are no reliable polls in Iran. The idea that it was a dead heat came from both sides suggesting that it would be a close election. Unless you know of a poll I was unaware of, I'm going to suggest you've been tricked by an overgeneralization of the media.

  • Re:Hmm, tough choice (Score:3, Interesting)

    by compro01 ( 777531 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:30PM (#28328353)

    I tend to use "interesting" for that.

  • by NightFears ( 869799 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:31PM (#28328361)

    Please, can you help us to set up some sort of network using our home wireless access points?

    I actually found this line very intriguing. Is it really possible to set up an autonomous network using any sort of commodity wireless routers? It might be a not bad idea at all in a densely populated metropolis. Probably none come with the firmware allowing to do that, but there might be open firmware alternatives. So, 3 questions:
    1. Is it technically possible to connect two wireless routers together to form a network?
    2. Is there readily-available software needed to set up a centralized/hierarchical network in this way?
    3. P2P?

  • by kusanagi374 ( 776658 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:35PM (#28328395)

    Except with the fact that the Iranians did actually overthrow the brutal despot that the US helped establish, and replaced him with what we see today?

    AFAIK, the Iranians already had their chance to end tyranny and establish a democracy... but instead, they chose tyranny by different hands.

  • by value_added ( 719364 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:40PM (#28328441)

    Also, as a practical matter while Iranian leadership seems to be oppressive and such, they aren't insane. I'm sure they full and well understand what the US response to a nuclear attack would be, and nobody wants to be the ruler of a glass parking lot.

    As a practical matter, if there's a confrontation over Iran possessing nuclear capabilities (of any sort), it'll probably be the Israelis who will feel compelled to act. The rest of us will get to sit back and feign a lack of responsibility until, of course we have to deal with the mess.

    As a side note, I'd suggest quoting Thomas Jefferson in a post about Iran is somewhere between inappropriate and offensive. Recall that we had the CIA overthrow their democratically elected government. Their take on those words would be that it is we who are the tyrant, and they're still fighting for liberty from us, and by extension, patriotism requires not only resistance against us, but resistance against a nuclear armed Israel.

  • Re:Ways to help (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:40PM (#28328449)

    I am Momen Abdullah
      Please give me more info or links about Ad-Hoc WiFi Mesh.

  • no (Score:5, Interesting)

    by unity100 ( 970058 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:44PM (#28328485) Homepage Journal

    they are saying election is stolen, because in azerbaijani parts of iran, ahmedinajad got 55%+ vote. never in iran's history ANYone other than an ethnic azerbaijani got that kind of vote there.

    let me put it in american context - ahmedinajad getting 55% vote in azerbaijani parts of iran means barack obama getting 55%+ vote in any part of redneck midwest with little black population.

  • by OzPeter ( 195038 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:48PM (#28328519)
    The Vietnam war has been over for 30+ years, this has given the Vietnamese time to move on.

    The US installed one brutal despot who beast the shit out of the populace. The only respite they had was in the Mosques, which guaranteed that any movement against the government was going to be theocratic and violent with a large amount of anit-west thrown in for good measure. And Iran has had to suffer that ignominy continually for the last 50 years.

    The West cleared the land, tilled the fields and planted the seeds of a theocratic and violent society. To then claim that the Iranians are responsible for their predicament today is plain out disingenuous.

  • Re:Iran (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ahabswhale ( 1189519 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:49PM (#28328533)
    Really? Show me the writings of the founding fathers that say this. I hear this bullshit all the time but I read all these things written by the founding fathers and I find it hard to imagine that based on those writings that their inspiration could be based so simply over finance. Your conclusion is simply illogical from the mountain mostly inspirational prose that they have written.
  • Re:HAM Radio (Score:5, Interesting)

    by vlm ( 69642 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:50PM (#28328537)

    WTF is "after the age of HAM"?

    Was completely and totally outlawed after the 79 revolution.

    The original poster does not realize that they started licensing again, and mere decade ago went from a whopping 3 licensees to 15 licensees in the entire country. I have no more recent figures. Perhaps the slashdot understatement of the week to say they are not quite up to Japanese levels of licensing (licenses as a percentage of the general population)

    http://www.qsl.net/oh2mcn/ep.htm [qsl.net]

    73 de n9nfb

  • by reallocate ( 142797 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:52PM (#28328557)

    >> n the absence of an external interfering force (e. g., the army of the Soviet Union), the fate of a nation is determined by its people.

    Wrong. An internal interfering force is even more able to determine a nation's fate. That's the nature of totalitarianism. It is naive in the extreme, and ethically deficient, to blithely assume that unarmed civilians can bring down a regime willing to slaughter its citizens to retain power.

  • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:55PM (#28328573)

    I think you are mistaking them for crazy, which they don't seem to be. So assuming the are rational:

    1) They know that no matter what they do, they can't deliver enough nuclear power to do more than token damage to the US. Any scenario you can dream up, all it does is scar the US, there's no taking it out.

    2) The US's response to such a thing is unquestioned: They will annihilate your country. The US will respond to weapons of mass destruction in kind.

    3) The leaders are very likely to die in such an attack, EVERYONE is very likely to die in such an attack. Survival would be the exception, not the rule.

    4) Even if they did survive, they'd now just be wanted men, living in a ruined country. They'd have no power, no privilege, and have to live in hiding, lest they be killed.

    As such, I can't see them doing anything nuclear. It just doesn't serve any rational interest.

    The reason why North Korea is a concern, is that Kim Jon Il seems increasingly crazy. He seems to not have a good grasp on reality. THAT is a situation where he might use a nuclear weapon, even though there are nothing but downsides to doing so, because he's too crazy to understand that.

    However that doesn't seem to be the case in Iran. Assholes, yes, crazy, no. So even though they don't care about their people, they case about having power over that people. They care about being the big privileged tough guy. Nuking the US would destroy that.

  • by tukang ( 1209392 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @03:56PM (#28328603)
    They did end tyranny by replacing the shah and they did establish a democracy when they voted for Mossadegh - only when that didn't work (i.e. the CIA undid all that and restored the shah) did they resort to more radical means.
  • by rtfa-troll ( 1340807 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @04:28PM (#28328891)

    I am stunned. How are people suggesting that Iranians who have obviously not prepared themselves for resistance begin resisting either through violence or setting up amateur radio transmitters etc..?

    In Poland; after the war; on of the tactics of the communists was to set up fake opposition groups. The aim was to get people to come out and show their hand. And then kill them, torture them or at least imprison them. This was one reason why the CIA operations, for a long time, were total disasters. In fact; your post here really really deserves to be modded up. This can be incredibly dangerous without planning. Even more; the person who lost here is a former prime minister. In other words; he belongs to the theological establishment. This is probably not the strong break which it is worth fighting and dying for in Iran.

    If you are going to start looking at helping the Iranians technically then think about your solutions for a completely different world. My analysis of the internet routing changes in Iran are that they probably have filtering or monitoring units in one ISP and are forcing traffic through that particular place to be able to identify trouble makers. Any solution you provide should be safe for use in a much more hostile environment than you are used to building systems for.

  • by CmdrSammo ( 1086973 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @04:30PM (#28328903) Homepage
    most people on here seem to knock twitter but as has been mentioned it is pretty much the only source for news right now. Follow updates on the #IranElection hashtag here: http://hashtags.org/tag/iranelection/messages [hashtags.org] For what it's worth I don't even use twitter, but it's times like this that I realise it kicks the ass of TV news for real-time coverage.
  • by Trerro ( 711448 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @04:43PM (#28329017)

    What about NNTP? Wasn't Usenet explicitly designed to run on limited hardware, an ad hoc network, and with any client simply needing to hit a server - ANY server - to have access to the whole network? Furthermore, because of the way articles propagate, you can use as much or as little coordination as necessary.- as long as everyone can hit a server, and that server can in turn hit another, and so on, your message reaches the whole network. For discussion, use normal groups, for files, use binary groups.

    The lack of any central server also seems to be a major plus here - this is a situation where a server admin may very well get suddenly arrested, and since all articles will have already propogated, the destruction of one node leaves the overall network completely in tact - often with multiple routing paths, so nothing short of a door to door scouring of the network can destroy it... and even then, someone likely has everything saved to a USB stick and can smuggle it out and rebuild the network.

    This also eliminates any need to constantly pass files and posts around - your server software will handle this automatically.

    The main downsides to NNTP are:
    1. It's not as user friendly as say... a modern forum system. While it's not all that difficult to use, some people ARE going to need a quick lesson, and that involves a bit of coordination. (It sounds like you're going to be going door to door to build your physical network anyway though, so this shouldn't be a huge issue. It IS going to increase the time involved though.)
    2. You're probably going to need a dedicated client - web-based ones generally don't let you access groups that aren't on the main Usenet hierarchies of groups (and your groups won't be.) This means getting software distributed to basically everyone. If most people still have 'net access, and its just restricted, this is trivial. Just point everyone to a Gravity or XNews (or whatever) download, with a few mirror servers in case they filter out the official download. If that fails though, you may literally be down to running door to door with a USB stick to install the software. Again though, as you're probably going building to building to set up hardware anyway, this shouldn't add TOO much of an issue - but again, it's more time.
    3. Propogation lag - simply put, messages have to be copied from server to server to server... to client, and when there isn't a good feed, that can take a while - hours sometimes. While that's fine for long term resistance planning, coordination, and generally just staying in touch, you can't count on it in a more urgent situation - you may very well be sending a message off that no one will read until you're already arrested!

    It may not be the best or most elegant solution, but given the circumstances I think it's one of the better options.

  • Re:no (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Loualbano2 ( 98133 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @04:52PM (#28329097)

    Northern Wisconsin is about as redneck and white as it gets. What you described is exactly what happened.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/president/33703659.html [jsonline.com]

    http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/states/president/wisconsin.html [nytimes.com]

  • by Parthian ( 1535117 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @05:11PM (#28329279)
    Iran WAS a modern secular state. IRAN could compete with many European nations back then! We had a strong industry, we have great education system. The national currency was stable for 15 years, inspiring French economist André Piettre to call Iran a country of âoegrowth without inflation.". Our military was the 5th strongest and our airforce was the 3rd strongest. Iran was an awesome nation!. Mossadegh was not a "democracy lover". He wanted to close the parliament, he printed bills with his own face on it thus breaking the Iranian currency, he forced women to wear hijab again (this was during February) and he left the Iranian treasury empty forcing the Shah to build Iran again from beginning! You didn't back the Shah in any way (PS: I can later go into how awesome your nation is, maybe we should go into all the torture you do yourself and then attack the Shah for). Operation Ajax did not happen. And guess what, the Shah of Iran said that he is not going to RENEW the British oil contract in 1979 - and see what happened - "revolution" (If you don't get it, British and Americans overthrew him for making Iran independent). Either way, the Shah even refused to renew oil contracts in 1973 and 1976, pissing your nation off. So please, next time you write - don't go on wikipedia where a bunch of uneducated americans hang out together writing stuff to make them feel like journalists. Regards
  • by BlackSabbath ( 118110 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @05:17PM (#28329313)
    The following is reproduced from the Stratfor website (http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20090613_iran_text_mousavi_letter).
    ----------

    Editor's Note: The text that follows is a translation of a letter by Iranian presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi on June 13, reported by TehranBureau.com. STRATFOR cannot confirm the authenticity of the letter.

    "The reported results of the 10th Iranian presidential election are appalling. The people who witnessed the mixture of votes in long lineups know who they have voted for and observe the wizardry of I.R.I.B. (state-run TV and radio) and election officials. Now more than ever before they want to know how and by which officials this game plan has been designed. I object fully to the current procedures and obvious and abundant deviations from law on the day of election and alert people to not surrender to this dangerous plot. Dishonesty and corruption of officials as we have seen will only result in weakening the pillars of the Islamic Republic of Iran and empowers lies and dictatorships.

    "I am obliged, due to my religious and national duties, to expose this dangerous plot and to explain its devastating effects on the future of Iran. I am concerned that the continuation of the current situation will transform all key members of this regime into fabulists in confrontation with the nation and seriously jeopardize them in this world and the next.

    "I advise all officials to halt this agenda at once before it is too late, return to the rule of law and protect the nation's vote and know that deviation from law renders them illegitimate. They are aware better than anyone else that this country has been through a grand Islamic revolution and the least message of this revolution is that our nation is alert and will oppose anyone who aims to seize the power against the law.

    "I use this chance to honor the emotions of the nation of Iran and remind them that Iran, this sacred being, belongs to them and not to the fraudulent. It is you who should stay alert. The traitors to the nation's vote have no fear if this house of Persians burns in flames. We will continue with our green wave of rationality that is inspired by our religious learnings and our love for prophet Mohammad and will confront the rampage of lies that has appeared and marked the image of our nation. However we will not allow our movement to become blind one.

    "I thank every citizen who took part in spreading this green message by becoming a campaigner and all official and self organized campaigns, I insist that their presence is essential until we achieve results deserving of our country."
  • Re:Ways to help (Score:3, Interesting)

    by petsounds ( 593538 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @05:31PM (#28329419)
    I just saw an Iranian reporter tweet "I am accessing twitter from 148.233.239.24 Port:80 in tehran. you can avoid gov filters from here.pls RT" Don't know if that will help anyone in the area, but thought I'd spread the word.
  • Tea Merchants (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Teancum ( 67324 ) <robert_horning AT netzero DOT net> on Sunday June 14, 2009 @05:34PM (#28329441) Homepage Journal

    I will say that the British government in the 18th Century did seemingly piss off some of the worst kinds of people (from a public relations viewpoint): Taverns, Tea Houses, and Newspaper Publishers. When referring to tea houses, think of your local Starbucks and you get a kind of idea of how common they were in the 18th Century American Colonies of Brittan.

    Still, I'd have to agree with you on calling the above AC poster on his B.S. There certainly was much more involved than a few tea merchants... and the involvement fiscally (and militarily) by the French certainly had a much stronger impact than anything the tea merchants of Venice may have had on American society.

  • by AaxelB ( 1034884 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @05:51PM (#28329521)

    They won't be successful on their own, unless they have outside support or there is some tremendous economic calamity that motivates people. At best we'll have a Tianeman square event and in a few years after that everyone will keep buying from the dictators..

    True, they won't be successful on their own, but they might not need a full invasion to swing things in their favor, maybe just some international support and visibility would be enough (I don't know how helpful that really is, but I'm just saying maybe).

    I suspect this will be more consequential than the Tiananmen square protests, since it seems like the anger is widespread and possibly shared by a very large portion of the country (since the polls had the other guy winning by a large margin). Also, Iran's government doesn't seem to have quite the strangehold on information and "public opinion" that China's had/has, though they're trying for it.

    For the most part, the historical record is pretty clear, once you have a dictatorship, you aren't going to "undictatorship". Just the natural order of things. From a stability of government perspective, democracy is better because it imposes rules about how regime change within the country should take place, but, there's never been a democracy that's been historically stable. The Atheniens cratered themselves. The Romans cratered themselves, and probably we'll crater ourselves. Meanwhile some asian style despot monarchy could have governments that last for a thousand years.

    However, the past few centuries have really been unprecedented in the sheer number and success of revolutions, especially ones which result in some form of democracy. There are certainly exceptions and I'm not saying we'll stay that way for thousands of years, but it wouldn't be incredibly surprising if one more country leans in a democratic direction.

  • Re:Destabilizing (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WED Fan ( 911325 ) <akahige@tras[ ]il.net ['hma' in gap]> on Sunday June 14, 2009 @08:15PM (#28330375) Homepage Journal

    Calling all black-hats and grey-hats. Think you're top shit? Let's see you unblock internet access in Iran. It's all routers and servers, it's all gotta be internet connected. Let's see if any of you have what it takes. The reward? Only boasting rights for playing a key part in bringing down a fucking government .

    Careful there, Sparky, you are not as anonymous as you think you are, and as a private citizen, assisting and acting to bring down a government can be considered a criminal act. In most countries, US, Canada, UK, etc, a private citizen cannot be involved in acts of hostility towards another government, even if its an enemy government.

  • Japan isn't a first world country?

    Japan is violent? Really??

    Hmmm... now I have to figure what incredibly peaceful and safe country I was living in between 2001 and 2006. Or, maybe I can just assume that you've never been there and have NO idea what you are talking about, and are probably basing your impressions of a country on the content of its cartoons.

    :-/

  • two things (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mistahkurtz ( 1047838 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @08:49PM (#28330579)
    first, i'm very disappointed, angry, saddened, and frustrated by what has happened and what is now happening. i'd very much like to help, but besides setting up rogue dns servers, or distributing pre-filled hosts.txt files (both of which could easily be stopped, if they're not already), i have no clue what sort of advice to offer besides don't trust anyone, encrypt everything, and speak in whispers (online and off) until you're ready to pay for what you have to say.

    second, should we really be offering advice in such a public place? if an iranian national can get to slashdot, so can iranian intelligence, or whoever it is that's actually imposing this oppression. there's not even any way to verify this person's identity, it could be some young iranian, supportive of the police state, trying to do his part to silence the dissenters.

    no, i'm sorry, i think i'd have to say that we shouldn't be saying anything of any real value, besides "i'm sorry". i hope you are able to figure this out on your own. my only advice is to move slowly, quietly, and deliberately. and good luck.
  • Freedom of Speech (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14, 2009 @08:51PM (#28330585)

    Blame is irrelevant. Oppressed people are asking for help.

    Tools and Information on fighting censorship:
    http://www.internetfreedom.org/
    http://www.pgp.com/
    http://www.dl4all.com/internet/22383-5-best-tools-to-fight-internet-censorship.html
    Also explore alternative means of communication.

    They are not asking for tanks and missiles, only the means to express themselves. We know what the right thing to do is, the only question is whether we're up to it.

    I am not in any sense a technical expert nor a master of cyber securty. Please, if anyone can offer further service, you know how much this can mean.

  • by Max Littlemore ( 1001285 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @09:56PM (#28330973)

    They have been referred to as part of the "axis of evil" by that insane cowboy the US used to call president. The US has a lot of nukes and the ability to deliver them and while the current president seems peaceful enough, they know that the US system is inherently unstable and another hawkish nutjob could be in the white house in 4 to 8 years.

    They also are on bad terms with Isreal, along with every other country in the region. Isreal has more than enough nukes to wipe them out. There is no nuclear power in the region on their side and they feel threatened. Understandably too.

    Isreal currently massacres Palestinians, has started wars with it's neighbours and has no problem launching attacks across borders when ever they want, for example into Lebanon. Basically, Iran has a nuclear power in their region which has shown time and again it has little respect for international law or vborders of other countries, who is allied with a super power which thinks it is international law and immune from prosecution and has little respect for other countries soverignty. No wonder they are frightened and angry.

    So they figure that if they have nukes, they can hopefully make Isreal think twice before commit the next installment in the genocide and territory building they appear to be attempting. They can't take on the US, but they can put Isreal in check, or at least make themselves heard and taken seriously.

    They know full well that nukes are only useful as a deterent. They also seem to think that the Middle East needs a balance of power. I would actually have more concern about some right wing Isreali nutjob starting a nuclear war than Iran.

    This is an unpopular view among many in the west, I know, but attempting to understand their fears can lead to peace, which is what most of us want on both sides.

  • by ahabswhale ( 1189519 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @10:47PM (#28331227)
    ROFL...on our TV we can have all forms of violence that is outlawed or at least looked down upon in most other first world nations but god forbid you show a tit. But hey, Fuck cartoons and TV. We simply kill more and it's not just because we have guns. Look at Canada. They have just as a high a percentage of gun ownership as we do, yet we kill many many times more people than they do (17000 vs. 578). We invade countries that haven't even attacked us. I could go on and on. What kind of fucking evidence do you need? You'd have to be completely delusional to think we aren't the most violent.
  • Hacked (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 14, 2009 @11:03PM (#28331341)

    The 2000 and 2004 elections were hacked (although it wouldn't have mattered much who got in really). Slashdot is full of references to all of this and the blackbox voting stuff. Many threads on it. The US is in the same boat as Iran, we haven't had a legitimate election in who knows how long, but we have way too many order followers with guns and badges and authority who will shoot to kill anyone their superiors point them at, they don't give a shit. Not for one moment. They just don't care, just a job to them, mercenaries wrapped in flags shouting hoorah, getting all the urban insurrection warfare skills they need to come back home and do some more order following when the time is ripe.

        Historically, police and military are the LAST ones to give up on a dictatorship, or decide to follow their conscious and fight against it and really be "for the people", that's the only way dictatorships stay in power, willing, armed and violent order followers. Usually they are the last to even admit they are part of it. Cognizant dissonance is a major part of that. They don't want to believe they are doing wrong, so they fail to see it, even when it is way past obvious to everyone else, and by then, inertia sets in, they fall back on "us versus them" and will still fight against the people. Then their organizational structure collapses, and most of them go rogue and predatory, because that's what they know, using violence to achieve goals. Right or wrong. This is by far and away the most common historical timeline with past empires and with all peoples.

        Everyone knows this (who stops to think about it a little), that's why congress has been a paper tiger (they don't control any troops or weaponry, they have no real power anymore, we have executive orders and findings and directives and subagency bureaucratic edicts for the important things now) and we have an ongoing transition to a full bore big brother styled society that keeps getting solidified under the axis of the executive branch and wall street moneymen, who are the real power in the US today. They are using the "war on terror" bullshit to bring about "change", just like the last set of controlled puppets that brought us homeland security and the patriot act. Notice none of that has been repealed or scaled back. Notice the wars haven't ended. Notice it is the same amount of security theater as before..well, no, there's more of it now, not less. More cameras, more datamining, more all that stuff. Notice everyone is getting robbed blind to make wall street richer, we are now "in debt" to them for some reason. To the tune of trillions and counting.

    We are paying those people to rip us off, plus to build the US into one large prison camp. No need for specialized camps much once the entire population is cowed enough and they have enough armed order followers spread around to keep everyone nervous and "pacified".

        It certainly isn't the vote that is important, that is just political theater meant to keep up the illusion of some sort of representative democracy, along with that utterly phony left versus right political "party" charade. We have one political party, the globalist fascist party, the D and R constitute the two wings of that party. And the current tool is part of the controlled Chicago machine, crooks through and through, just with a good actor for their spokesman. Better than the last puppet actor in his TV soundbite skills, but still a tool and controlled. Who knows what they have on him for blackmail.

  • Re:Hmm, tough choice (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jhantin ( 252660 ) on Sunday June 14, 2009 @11:54PM (#28331675)
    Confusing "apocalypse" -- literally, revelation -- with the end of humanity is a common mistake, possibly because of the sheer volume of literature [wikipedia.org] discussing revelation in that context. I don't exactly find the fact that mass numbers of twits want to tell the world their about their day-to-day lives to be a worldview-shattering revelation, however.

    In any case, the real revelation for a lot of shortsighted developers is that you shouldn't use 32-bit sequence numbers [twitpocalypse.com] for something so voluminous as tweets!

  • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 ) on Monday June 15, 2009 @12:25AM (#28331825)

    There is only one thing to do at a point like this (where the election was so overtly stollen - as if Bush had one a 3rd term), and it does not (directly) involve SMS or re-establishing connections to popular communication/news sites.

    I mean, seriously. Your country was just taken over, and you're up in arms about communications? You should be, literally, up in arms. AKA, "Revolution". Given Ahmadinejad history with such things as revolution, it's only natural that he'd take steps to shut out the most readily available communication methods for orchestrating one.

    "Social networks" and SMS? Please. That is DANGEROUS. Using such things when the network si known to be dangerous - ie, in a "Krystal Knaght" type situation would likely occur after extended monitoring of said networks.

    You are now "behind enemy lines", the enemy being your own government. Your networks need to be small and personal - composed of people you know and trust, and who are equally frearful as you. You need to use encryption pads and other mechanisms for passing communication; nothing that stands out or or anything traceable to its source, such as a wifi mesh or packet radio.

    And most importantly, you need to take active action against your government. If public protests don't do the job, then consider a popular violent revolution, if there is support for such things. It either happens soon or it doesn't happen at all: the coup leaders will be quick to squash down on un-friendly sentiment and people will acclimate to the atmosphere of fear, becoming comfortable with their new malevolent dictatoriat.

    In short, what you need is guns, lots of guns. They should be in fairly ready supply on your southern border; your fellow countrymen have been deporting them to Iraq for some time, and maybe some Kurds or Iraqis would be benevolent to reciprocate (albiet, in a more kind manner).

  • by BlackSabbath ( 118110 ) on Monday June 15, 2009 @12:25AM (#28331827)
    Good question (and thanks for the thoughtful post).

    I think the best way to "deal" with Iran and future states that may be considering nuclear weapons (as opposed to nuclear power) is as follows:

    1. Get China to bring NK to heel. A transition from the cult-of-Kim to a dictatorship-by-committee (like in Myanmar) maybe just enough of a change to make the regime's external stance less volatile. How much leverage we have with China to force this is questionable. The alternative that China faces is surgical strikes on their neighbour, which they definitely do NOT want. This must happen before NK get delivery capability.

    2. At the same time, get the 1st world nuclear powers to establish a "civilian nuclear power" board (perhaps under IAEA aegis) to guarantee delivery of tech, advice, construction and low-interest loans for proliferation-resistant nuclear power plants. No country would be refused. This could even be linked to any global climate-change agreements.

    3. Get serious with nuclear disarmament. Western powers just cannot claim the moral high-ground while adding to their stockpiles.

    4. Raise the stakes with respect to sanctions for proliferation. Enable automatic sanctions if a country refuses 2 (above) and begins a weapons capable nuclear power cycle.

    All of these must be done together as part of a package - a kind of global, nuclear "new deal".
  • by johnsonav ( 1098915 ) on Monday June 15, 2009 @01:39AM (#28332171) Journal

    Given the right circumstances, ANY culture will do evil things.

    Sure they will. Every culture has a history that includes some evil acts. That's universal. That does not imply, however, that the "right circumstances" for every culture are identical, or that the evil things a culture would do would be identical--or even similar--to the evil acts of a different culture.

    If you take two different cultures, and expose them to identical interventionist actions, you'll get two different reactions. That's simply undeniable.

  • by mark_hill97 ( 897586 ) <{masterofshadows} {at} {gmail.com}> on Monday June 15, 2009 @07:08AM (#28333489)
    Exactly. Ghandi had the ideal conditions for his style of protest. He was not just a silly idealist, but rather a clear headed thinker. He looked for the method that would cause them to lose face at home. Iranians don't have such a situation. They are the voters who have been decieved. They are rising up and telling thier governement that they do not approve of being lied to.

    They arent just comitting random acts of violence as far as I can tell. I watched a youtube video earlier where the crowd attacked a riot cop who was on a motorbike swinging a baton at the crowd. They pulled him off the bike and torched the bike. Yet they spared him any attack beyond that. In a mob situation like that it is easy to lose your humanity. The crowd could have killed him, yet they didn't. That shows to me that they are genuinely angry yet still responsible about it. Even Ghandi would have approved of this.

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