Cities View Red Light Cameras As Profit Centers 740
Houston 2600 writes "Chicago could rake in 'at least $200 million' a year — and wipe out the entire projected deficit for 2009 — by using its vast network of redlight and surveillance cameras to hunt down uninsured motorists, aldermen were told today. The system pitched to the City Council's Transportation Committee by Michigan-based InsureNet would work only if insurance companies were somehow compelled to report the names and license plates of insured motorists. That's already happening daily in 13 states, but not here."
This is a Tax (Score:5, Interesting)
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So who is hotter? Ali or Ali's Sister?
countdown (Score:2, Interesting)
I still argue that installing walk/don't walk signs with a countdown that turns yellow on zero does more to discourage red light running than the cameras do. Sometimes you just don't know how long the yellow will last or how long the hand is going to blink. Using the countdown I have a decent idea from about 50 ft away and can act accordingly. I feel safer as a result and I think most people would agree.
Cities don't want this, however, because they don't like to think that something they've spent so much money on to catch "evil red light runners" doesn't serve it's purpose as well as a simple countdown.
Not so bad... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm generally opposed to this sort of stuff, but this particular application doesn't seem so bad. Uninsured motorists are a problem for everyone. If you're going to drive a car, you should have a license and your car should be registered, insured, and inspected according to state laws. Yes, this makes money for repair shops, insurance companies, state government, and the police. However, all of this is important for having safe roads and keeping down the cost of insurance.
Re:Stupid Idea as many uninsured motorists are bro (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's just go one step further and outlaw poverty by making it a crime to be poor. Oh wait, done and done.
Re:Side effect (Score:5, Interesting)
Houston, TX installed "red light cameras."
Then the greedy-ass city council wanted more revenue, so they shortened the yellow-light timing. They now have yellow-light times that are around 2 seconds on most of the camera-watched intersections. Other cities have done the same thing [motorists.org].
The problem is, the shorter a yellow-light timing, the more accidents. Study after study has shown this. Shortening the yellow light timing (to trap motorists "still in the intersection") to get more ticket revenue also makes for more accidents.
It's literally blood money, coming at the expense of people injured or killed in those accidents, but the city councils don't care because it's "their" blood money.
Pimp your teacher (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Side effect (Score:3, Interesting)
Worse yet:
- You try to stop for the light.
- You don't make it.
- Some asshat rear-ends you, pushing you into the intersection
- Some OTHER asshat floors the pedal and t-bones your already rear-ended car.
Now the intersection's REALLY clogged.
I watched this happen a couple years back. Shortened yellow light, guy with bad brakes... so he tries to stop, and he's halfway into the intersection. Next thing he knows, one of the two drag racing motherfuckers coming through the intersection from the other side slams into him (this was one of the "freeway underpass" sections with plenty of room to get moving before an eastbound car would hit a northbound car, and some genius apparently tried to "synchronize" the lights so that the eastbound green lit up while northbound still had a yellow). With a longer yellow light, he'd have had the time to realize he wasn't making it and instead hit the gas, but he decided to stop where he was instead. I have to think the fact that it was a redlight-camera intersection had something to do with that.
The intersection in question, in case you are interested or want to claim I'm 'lying' about this, is I-45 at Almeda-Genoa in Houston TX.
Re:Stupid Idea as many uninsured motorists are bro (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, life is tough my friend. And in the US, equal opportunity, does NOT mean equal results [culture11.com]. Things (like owning and driving a car) cost money, and you have to work to earn it. Some have to work a little harder for do to luck of the draw at birth (genetics, parental skills of parents, etc)....if you are poor and want a car, then work that extra time to educate yourself. If you blew it the first time around it was offered to you, well yes, it will take more effort when you're older, but other people have done it, and so can you.
If you cannot afford to follow the rules for a private car, they you should not have one.
Re:False positives? (Score:3, Interesting)
Use false positives to get rid of the system.
Simply find out what car the Mayor or city council members drive, including their lisence plates. Rent the same car, or something that looks very similar. Print out real looking lisence plates, put them over the real ones and drive through as many red lights as possible.
Once they get the tickets in the mail, you better believe the law will change quickly.
Re:Driving as right vs. privilage (Score:4, Interesting)
While you're at it with your socialist rant, please add "everything I need to live well" to your wishlist, because in reality, that's what you're really requesting by that.
Cheating on taxes is unethical, but way more ethical than skimping on car insurance. Because you're hurting The State financially, but your the impact is so low that society as a whole can probably cope with if only some people doing this.
If you're skipping car insurance and hurt someone, you're against ONE single selected individual and you can bankrupt them for decades or the rest of their lives.
So choose if you're hurting our anonymous society a small bit or destroy one individual with name and face for the rest of their lives.
I would rather start a revolution than to ruin an innocent family, I tell you.
Re:Side effect (Score:5, Interesting)
There's a simple way to fix it...
Sue the city that shortens the light, showing accident rates, long waits at the lights causing wasted fuel, out of sync lights, causing wasted fuel.
Make it too expensive to operate the lights in question, and they will disappear.
Better yet, take your own video of the intersection, then send it to the local news to show how the lights are *too short* but only at the camera intersections. Site safety issues and government corruption... They won't stay in office for long.
Re:Side effect (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing wrong with that, even if it is a profit center for the city.
Law enforcement should never be a profit center for anyone. That's begging for abuse. Collected fines should simply be destroyed, increasing the value of the money supply for everyone.
Re:This is a Tax (Score:3, Interesting)
I love revenue sources that depend on negative behavior. If people stopped smoking and drinking most state govs would really be broke.
Re:Stupid Idea as many uninsured motorists are bro (Score:4, Interesting)
The city of Philadelphia does this.
If you are caught driving without insurance in the city of Philadelphia, your vehicle is confiscated ON THE SPOT, and you will walk home (or ride SEPTA, but walking may be faster/easier).
Re:Side effect (Score:4, Interesting)
Just because state law tells a municipality they can't do something, doesn't mean they won't do it anyway. Laws are for us little people, not those in power.
Re:Side effect (Score:3, Interesting)
That's the problem with law enforcement in Houston. Police there only earn so much, and it's hard to pay the bills. Officers often take side jobs guarding private properties (stores, private parking lots, etc) and work those side jobs WHILE IN UNIFORM.
Once you've crossed that line as a cop taking money on the side to watch a store, you're a mercenary, not a soldier. I expect anyone in uniform to be serving the public good, impartially. Unfortunately, Houston has a culture that places off-duty cops on private payrolls, while still in uniform impersonating actual public servants. It's a total racket: payola to off-duty cops who show up in uniform to guard your store, or risk higher crime due to lack of legitimate police presence.
Re:Can we ticket cars that stop on the crosswalk? (Score:1, Interesting)
You must be from Seattle, where it's more important that a pedestrian not walk 3 feet out of your way, than a car pull up to see safely around a blind corner. Who cares if 8 people and 10's of thousand of dollars in damage ensue, so long as some sensitive pedestrian douche doesn't have to walk in an unstraight line.
I had a guy bang on the hood of my rental car for this. Of course he was wearing sandals and a messanger bag. When I got back to Chicago it turns out someone was beaten to death for doing exactly that. I hope that hippie fuck saw the Chicago news that night.
Re:Denver uninstalled their cameras (Score:3, Interesting)
no. They returned the yellow light time to the correct interval, and offenses dropped. Shocking~.
The cameras can't pay for them selves without lowering the yellow light time to a time that isn't safe.
Cameras do very little to nothing for safety. People run red lights becasue they aren't paying attention. Only when something unusual happens do they pay attention. But only until it becomes normal.
Re:Side effect (Score:3, Interesting)
In Melbourne, peak hour, cars backed up at intersection, cars waiting to turn right (from center lane, etc, they drive "on the wrong side of the road"). Along comes an ambulance, stuck behind this car, lights are all red due to ambulance being able to control signals. Car driver does the intelligent thing - since it is safe to do so, because there's no other traffic, he executes his right turn, and immediately pulls to the side of the road to let the ambulance by. Cue police car watching on other side of intersection, that immediately flips on its lights, shoots across and tickets driver for running a red light. Driver, asks out of curiosity, what his options were. "Should I have just sat there? Would you then have booked me for obstructing an emergency vehicle?" Officer shrugs. Amidst general uproar, the police decide to keep the ticket. The driver goes to court. Due to the statutes, the judge is not empowered to quash the offense, but rips into the police prosecutor and officer involved. Nonetheless, the man is fined, plus court costs. On the flip side, the ambulance service donates half the money for the man's costs, and the family of the person who the ambulance was en route to do the same.
What a fun world it is.
Re:Denver uninstalled their cameras (Score:3, Interesting)
The cameras can tell if you're turning right or not.
If you are past the right lane, and most of the way through the intersection and you're still heading straight through the intersection, you weren't turning right.
Seriously, did you think that in all the places that have deployed these things, nobody ever stopped and thought "hey, what about right turns" before?