How We Used To Vote 517
Mr. Slippery writes "Think hanging chads, illegal purges of the voter rolls, and insecure voting machines are bad? The New Yorker looks back at how we used to vote back in the good old days: 'A man carrying a musket rushed at him. Another threw a brick, knocking him off his feet. George Kyle picked himself up and ran. He never did cast his vote. Nor did his brother, who died of his wounds. The Democratic candidate for Congress, William Harrison, lost to the American Party's Henry Winter Davis. Three months later, when the House of Representatives convened hearings into the election, whose result Harrison contested, Davis's victory was upheld on the ground that any "man of ordinary courage" could have made his way to the polls.' Now I feel like a wuss for complaining about the lack of a voter-verified paper trail." The article notes the American penchant for trying to fix voting problems with technology — starting just after the Revolution. This country didn't use secret ballots, an idea imported from Australia, until quite late in the 19th century.
no excuses (Score:5, Interesting)
Think hanging chads, illegal purges of the voter rolls, and insecure voting machines are bad?
Yes.
Re:I voted in this manner... (Score:5, Interesting)
This doesn't make any sense. No one thought to call the state police, FBI or the media?
More importantly, these statements don't add up:
There were no republicans running in our little township
They also explained how important it was to vote democrat
If no republicans are running, then why go to all the effort?
Something smells in your story.
Re:Voter registration (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Voter registration (Score:2, Interesting)
It's pretty much the same in Canada. After I turned eighteen I just got voting cards in the mail for Federal, Provincial, and Municipal elections.
You must register to vote in Canada. But, many years ago, they made it very easy: there is a tick-off box on your federal income tax form to register to vote. The federal elections agency also shares information with provincial elections agencies, who get updates from medicare cards & driver's licenses changes.
More importantly, since being a convicted murderer doesn't deprive you of your vote, you don't get the wholesale purges that occur in the USA. These purges are prone to error and manipulation.
There are only a few reasons to deny a voter in Canada:
1. They aren't a Canadian citizen.
2. They haven't reached the voting age.
3. They don't live where they are trying to vote.
Re:Congress (Score:1, Interesting)
The same way they buy them now: they wine and dine the pol, and make them think that X Corp are swell guys. Just like managers choosing IT products over a golf game.
Give the politicians a little credit. Most of them aren't corrupt, just ignorant as bricks.
Re:Congress (Score:5, Interesting)
You'd be surprised how honest people can be when their job doesn't rely on what the average dimwit thinks.
Punchscan (Score:3, Interesting)
There are about four groups of people working to rectify this problem. The one I've been following is Punchscan [punchscan.org] which looks like they have everything covered except fraudulent registration. Slashdot covered Punchscan here [slashdot.org].
Re:We have the reliable scan cards (Score:2, Interesting)
Acutally, the Norwegian system is even more foolproof. A voting venue consist of a single box and multiple booths. Inside the voting booth, you find several stacks of paper, one for each voting alternative. You pick up a pice of paper from the correct stack, fold it, walk outside, and hand it to the person standing next to the box. He ensures that you are only casting a single vote, and drops it into the box for you.
Re:Voter registration (Score:1, Interesting)
Everyone above 18 is registered by default. I assume this is similar in most of Western Europe.
Not everywhere in Western Europe though, here in Belgium everybody over 18 is required to vote. I get a letter telling me where I need to go vote and if I don't show up I can get fined 500 euros or theoretically can even get sent to jail.
I would prefer the American system over ours, even if I would go vote anyway.
Re:Voter registration (Score:2, Interesting)
From my experience, as an adult having lived in South Dakota, Oregon and Colorado, its fine to just move around the country.
It is your responsibility to have your mail forwarded to your new address, the Government doesn't know where you are unless you tell them and for general things (mail/taxes/bills) there is no checking up on if your address is accurate.
Re:Congress (Score:3, Interesting)
The UK has a situation where it sort of has both extremes and, imo, when you do that the unaccountable ones will always win out in the end because the Lords are human too and have the same needs as the rest of us. Having the threat looming over that they could lose that position probably helps but relying on people within power that are 100% accountable to the public through election would end up in some sort of pro Daily Mail government that bases its laws on Littlejohn, the immigrant, with anti immigrant rubbish rants and other laws based on rubbish the common masses read from the guy who sits comfortably in Florida.
It's unfortunate but most people aren't capable of voting in their best interests. In an ideal world Reagan's trickle-down economics were correct if you'd rework them to make them less extreme. It's a fine balance that needs constant adjustment to ensure no one gets too much power.
That's where the problem lies. To get things right requires constant thought and evaluation. People don't want that. They want to press a button and then it's sorted but that won't happen ever. Constant fluctuation to keep people on their toes and thinking is uncool and will never win. The house of common / house of lords setup, as it's currently working, is probably the best people will get.
Re:no excuses (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Founding fathers (Score:1, Interesting)
How about elaborating on your proposed constitutional amendment and how there's "clearly no legitimate reason for it to still be around."
While I don't think that we need to vote for "electors", I do see real value in the original federalist principle of state-based government instead of a straight popular vote.
Frankly, if you want to disagree with the Founders, at least attempt to reason at a similar strength as they did. The i-pod in your pocket doesn't give your ideas any extra merit.
Re:I voted in this manner... (Score:1, Interesting)
There's also no township [st-clair.il.us] called French Village. There's a place, but it's not a township.
It's a rather important distinction politically, and yet another reason this story smells. Back when I was living in a suburban hellhole, I knew damn well which townships were in the area. It determines school districts, taxes, etc.
Re:Congress (Score:2, Interesting)
All judges get elected or put into their positions through some political process be it vocal or non-vocal. Ascension to such a job still will pass through other human beings with opinions of their own. It's an undeniable fact of life.
The correct question you should be asking is this. "How and by whom should judges be put into power?
I agree. The point really is, I suppose, that once a judge is appointed, he/she doesn't have to worry about being re-appointed. Doesn't have to worry what the average dimwit thinks about an issue, for fear of not being re-elected.
The law is the law, and shouldn't be controlled by current community opinions.
Re:I voted in this manner... (Score:3, Interesting)
I had to register as a Democrat so that I could vote in the primaries because if I waited till the general election to get involved I'd already have all of my choices made for me.
Re:Voter registration (Score:4, Interesting)
The U.S. does not have any (official) national citizen database (despite attempts to change that), and the various U.S. states do not have them either. As a result, to be able to vote, voter registration is required.
Two words. Selective Service.
Unless you are a woman, then you don't have to register for selective service. So, the government only has half of the population over 18 in that database.
Even that statement is a bit weak. Women are forbidden from registering with the SS (even if they want to for whatever odd reason). Yes, they can fill out the form but unless they lie about their gender, the SSA simply discards their registration.
Re:Congress (Score:5, Interesting)
The law is the law, and shouldn't be controlled by current community opinions.
How is that not counter to "by the people, for the people"?
If enough fucktards want to change the law, move elsewhere and watch them get their just deserts.
Informed decisions based on public debate that includes experts on subject matter will probably lead to better decisions than the will of the average mob. But the law is the people's, not the elite's.
It's easy us to look down on people. But consider this: there may be smarter people than us who govern us. Would we want to be cut out of the loop because we weren't elite enough?
Re:Oh, its us evil Republicans! (Score:2, Interesting)
I was actually serious in my post. Republicans -don't- believe that everyone should have the right to vote. I mean, imagine how much less entitlements there would be on the budget if you had to a certain net worth to vote?
Re:Congress (Score:1, Interesting)
The problem with public financing is it would put the government in charge of who gets the money. Otherwise you would have to fund every party, no matter how crazy. Would you support the public financing of a pary dedicated to making the life of the Slashdot user amRadioHed miserable?
Re:I voted in this manner... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Voter registration (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Congress (Score:3, Interesting)
How is that not counter to "by the people, for the people"
Maybe it is, but who cares? This country isn't built on the idea that anything that 51% of the people can agree on should happen.
Ever notice the Bill of Rights? That sort of thing would be pointless, indeed obstructionist, if the intent was to let the populace do whatever they felt like.
True, direct, 100% democracy does not work. Democracy is two lions and a lamb voting on dinner. The US is not set up as a direct democracy and this is a feature, not a bug.
Re:Congress (Score:3, Interesting)
In essence, by having the people write the law and making its application as rigorous, uniform, and automatic as possible, we uphold the rule of "the people" with as little as possible of mob rule. In specific instances, with emotions running high one way or the other, "the people" are fantastically unreliable(generally aided, these days, by the shrieking emotion peddlers of the press). The best compromise we can strike between some sort of nonrepresentative rule and mob rule is a mechanism where the people write the laws first, to address society in the abstract, and then the laws are executed without regard for the emotions of the mob in any particular instance.
etc (Score:4, Interesting)
Your head is either in the clouds, or in the sand. If you think Bush pushed an Iraq invasion for any purpose but the acquisition of their oil resources, you're doing a great job of ignoring nearly one hundred years of history. This is the fifth time the US and/or Britain have invaded Iraq since oil became the most necessary component of the modern military. You may think it's a coincidence, but I urge you to read something besides opinion pieces.
The Bush White House may be saving him face for the moment, but I haven't seen any compelling argument against the dozen or so books that provide good evidence that he not only ordered the manufacture of the famed letter about Nigerian yellowcake, but went out of his way to have the CIA discredit all evidence - and there was a lot - to the contrary. Defending the president because he's the president is the sincerest imitation of soviet era politics, but so is destroying human rights for the sake of security.
James Kirchick is the former Ralph Nader supporter who couldn't land any writing jobs until he unabashedly began parroting neoconservative talking points, right? Who graduated Yale barely two years ago? What are you, part of the McCain campaign?
And your other source, Norman Podhoretz, is a member of the PNAC. The bias is so deep and obvious I can't even come up with a witty analogy for these two. Bravo.
ripped from Wikipedia (Score:3, Interesting)
"Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. ... Kill the sons of bitches." -G Gordon Liddy, 1994, on his radio show
"It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." -McCain, 2007, on Gordon's radio show
Oh, hypocrisy! Does your comedy know no bounds?