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Politics

Whitehouse Emails Were Lost Due to "Upgrade" 482

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "We now know how the Whitehouse managed to lose about five million emails. It seems that they 'upgraded' their Lotus Notes system, which had an automatic retention and backup system, for Microsoft Exchange, which did not support the automatic system. So they changed it to a manual process, where aides would manually sort emails one by one into individual PST files, which they call a 'journaling' archive system. They're still building a replacement for the retention system. Right when they had one finished, the White House CIO complained that it made Microsoft Exchange too slow, so they hired yet another contractor to build another one, causing a senior IT official to quit in protest. So they still haven't completed the project after almost eight years, and rely on humans to sort millions of emails."
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Whitehouse Emails Were Lost Due to "Upgrade"

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  • by FuzzyDaddy ( 584528 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @10:50AM (#23250710) Journal
    "Strategic Incompetence"
  • These days... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by neokushan ( 932374 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @10:52AM (#23250740)
    It's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between subterfuge and sheer incompetence.
  • by utnapistim ( 931738 ) <.dan.barbus. .at. .gmail.com.> on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @10:53AM (#23250760) Homepage

    What was that quote about never ascribing to malice?

    It's a well put-together story (plausible enough) but I'm still skeptic though.

    Maybe we've just seen too many lies :)

  • Re:yes it is. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SatanicPuppy ( 611928 ) * <SatanicpuppyNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @10:55AM (#23250802) Journal
    Not to defend microsoft, but COME ON! Who do they have doing their tech support? Is Bush doing it himself?

    I find this frankly impossible to believe, and insulting on top of that.
  • Re:These days? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Shinmizu ( 725298 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:00AM (#23250864)
    And any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
  • Re:These days... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:02AM (#23250908)

    It's getting harder and harder to tell the difference between subterfuge and sheer incompetence.
    Because the bullshit is so deep?
  • by Reality Master 201 ( 578873 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:02AM (#23250914) Journal
    Seriously, this is the least bullshit excuse the could come up with? If ANY corporation in the US tried this kind of thing, the wrath of SARBOX would rain down on them like you wouldn't believe.

    Even given the staggering incompetence of the Bush administration in nearly all aspects, this just doesn't pass the laugh test.
  • by metoc ( 224422 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:03AM (#23250926)
    1) To bad the Whitehouse isn't using an e-mail system like millions of other people. Wait they are. Like it or not MS Exchange is everywhere.
    2) To bad the requirement for e-mail archiving and retention is unique to government. Wait, most publicly traded companies have legal and compliance requirements to do so.
    3) To bad there is no market for software to archive and retain e-mail on one of the most common e-mail platforms. Wait, there is, and its huge.
    4) To bad nobody has nobody has developed technology for this market. Wait, there are dozens of solutions.

    To bad no one is getting fired, imprisoned or impeached over this one.
  • by Woundweavr ( 37873 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:04AM (#23250930)

    why throw out what works?

    Because "works" in this case is a means by which they can get caught?

    If I was going to be as corrupt/incompetent as this administration, I'd try to limit how much that criminality/idiocy could be directly documented for criminal proceedings/historical study.
  • by L4t3r4lu5 ( 1216702 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:07AM (#23250980)
    Are the people involved in this process, from conception to the current state, being held liable for criminal negligence?

    They're being heavily fined and potentially imprisoned for a blatant disregard for government policy?

    Is there anybody in a position to make in-depth enquiries regarding the processes involved in this fiasco, who has the wherewithal and political clout to actually do something about it?

    I didn't think so. Now bend over and get ready for another "Oops, we did it again!" situation.
  • Re:Six P's (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:09AM (#23251000) Homepage
    This shouldn't be taken as a Micr$oft bash as much as an example of poor planning.


    Or perhaps an example of really good planning. If I was planning to make sure a few million potentially incriminating emails never found their way into the public eye, that is how I might do it. Certainly if I had spent a number of meetings discussing how and when Americans should torture people [washingtonpost.com] I would be motivated to do so.

  • Re:These days? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Danse ( 1026 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:14AM (#23251086)
    Once you get to a certain level of incompetence, it's really indistinguishable from malice. In this case, the incentives are all there for them to want to keep this "problem" in place. It lets them conveniently lose any incriminating email and blame it on "them dang computers". Everyone's lost some files at one time or another, right? Ok, so maybe you didn't have your own IT department in charge of running the communications for the most powerful government in the world...
  • bloody hell. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by apodyopsis ( 1048476 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:14AM (#23251092)
    utter bollocks. just unbe-fucking-lievable.

    *every* backup system should result in a set a of data offsite or in a storage area never to be touched again.

    even if you use incremental backup every nth backup should be a complete archival read only copy re the previous sentence.

    the *very* worst case should be the last major backup is in a format that is not readable with the current system and some red faced admins need help to read read the data.

    5 million emails? jesus wept.

    add the conspiracy theory factor into the mix and you have something that, on the face of it, sounds unbelievable.

    as one of our politicians in the UK said to another a short while ago "you cannot have it both ways, you were either ignorant or incompetent - and neither is acceptable".

  • by ArcherB ( 796902 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:17AM (#23251130) Journal

    ridiculous!
    Evidently, you have never used Lotus Notes!
  • Re:yes it is. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:19AM (#23251172)

    An excellent line, I have to give him that.
    Now let's see how many times this asshat has his sockpuppets agree with himself.

    Oh, for the love of fucking god. I'm getting awfully tired of this public spat about twitter, his sock puppets, and the people who want us to know about them.

    Since most of us don't have a friggin clue what this is all about, make it go away. It really isn't better than the rest of the trolls and ACs spewing crap into Slashdot nowdays.

    And, for the record, I am not twitter, one of his sock puppets, or whatever. But this whole on-going thing is getting pretty tedious.

    Twitter, if you have nothing better to do than post under a few pseudonyms so you can get mod points and generally be an ass ... get a life. If other people have nothing better to do than point out this twitter conspiracy, the same applies.
  • by ashitaka ( 27544 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:23AM (#23251230) Homepage
    One of my first projects after moving to Vancouver was a couple of test installations of pre-release Exchange server back in 1996. Since then I've worked constantly with every version of Exchange in all kinds of backup situations. Early versions of Exchange were a bitch to restore but it's gotten better.

    However, there has *always* been a way to retain and archive emails automatically from Exchange and no shortage of migration utilities from notes to Exchange. The reasons stated in the article just don't wash. No one, not even the newest tech school grad could come up with a system like that currently in use.

    However, it may in fact not be intentional malice from the start but more likely an existing state of incompetence that was taken advantage of to hide traces or misdeeds or at least to make finding any evidence difficult.

    This still doesn't address the use of non-government email systems for official business by Rove and other Republican members. According to the laws of the United States this is all highly illegal. Don't you care at all about what your government is doing or do you think whatever you do won't make any difference?
  • by pclminion ( 145572 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @11:57AM (#23251684)
    How is incompetence an excuse for violating the Presidential Records Act?
  • by ardent99 ( 1087547 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @12:05PM (#23251792)
    I have hard time believing it is not intentional incompetence or malice. But at this point it doesn't matter. They have been committing crimes by not keeping a record of government email, and by using GOP computers to handle whitehouse email, and by not supplying the records to Congress after being subpoenaed, and by ordering the Justice Department not to enforce the subpoena. This is a massive cover up on a huge scale, and they have managed to block every attempt by Congress to investigate it. Whether they are covering up malice or negligence doesn't make the cover up legal.

    However, the reason it must be malice (aka intentional incompetence), is that for these purposes it doesn't matter whether the files were correctly converted from one format to another. They could have given over all the records to Congress in whatever disordered form it was in, and let Congress figure out how to sort through it. There are very easy ways to pull information out of a complete morass of files. For example, just text index the whole mess, and search for any text containing interesting phrases, and then follow the references in those text blocks to related text blocks. You could probably get 90% of the meaning of a collection of email in random formats just by doing things like that. But obviously the whole point is to block that from happening, not enable it.
  • by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @12:52PM (#23252480) Homepage
    You have to prove criminal intent. Incompetence is not a crime.
  • by cHiphead ( 17854 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @12:59PM (#23252582)
    You sir are on the mark.

    You can get a long line of IT admins from around the country to testify how big the lies coming from the Administration are, put the white house IT admins on the stand and rip them to shreds, then throw their asses in JAIL when they show gross incompetence in following the law, instead of coming right out with the truth of what happened and who encouraged it to happen. Plausible deniability only succeeds when noone has the balls and patience to search for the truth. This is not some chickenshit run of the mill SOX compliance failure, this is the most important single office in the country requiring the utmost diligence from people working there. (yeah, I guess that last point there really set the stage)

    There is no way such incompetence exists, unless they were hiring 18 year old MCSE's just out of high school with no real world IT experience to configure the fucking system. In that case, we have a lot more important people that get a free visit to jail.

    Cheers.
  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @01:19PM (#23252844) Homepage Journal
    And no amount of lying will change that basic fact, nor the fact that every mail server recipient host also has a copy of the intentional fraudulent emails from the White House.
  • Re:These days? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by clem ( 5683 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @02:30PM (#23253702) Homepage
    Though malice and incompetence are not mutually exclusive.
  • by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @02:33PM (#23253734) Homepage
    (Such amazing IQ swings we see. Genius! Moronic! Brilliant! Ape-like! Bing-bam-boom! Sometimes several flip-flops in one day! One would almost wonder if the problem lies in the observers, rather than the observed.)

    The problem lies in this ridiculous line of thinking where someone can only ever have one adjective applied, and that adjective must apply to everything they do.

    Here's the dope: The Bush White House is quite adept at playing politics -- genius when Rove was involved -- including yes the ability to make apparent incompetence into a strength. They are skilled at making the organizations they control work for them, producing the information they want to hear, and failing to find or losing the information they don't want anyone to hear, to support their political goals. When it comes to actually executing policies outside of Washington, they're terrible failures because in reality you can't get rid of facts you don't like and keep only the ones you do.

    What's so contradictory about that? I'm "brilliant" with computers, I'm "moronic" with cars. To think that one precludes the other is idiotic. But then again, so is the whole "flip-flop" figure of speech.
  • by eekygeeky ( 777557 ) on Wednesday April 30, 2008 @02:58PM (#23254008)
    say what now? where did you get the idea that Exchange uses decentralized storage?

    also Lotus--->Exchange is not exactly new frontiers. there's even built in tools to make it a snap.

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