Possible Manipulation of OOXML Process In Poland 94
michuk writes "IBM's representative for KT182 (the committee empowered to vote on OOXML in Poland) accused the committee's chair of intentionally manipulating the process. A letter from the president of the body overseeing KT182, sent a month ago to the committee chair for distribution to all committee members, was never distributed. The letter recommended that, if consensus were not achieved on the OOXML vote, then Poland should abstain. This follows up my recent report on the OOXML process in Poland (also covered by Groklaw), it looks like things are going bad this time, at least as bad as in October." The EU is already investigating the Polish process based on complaints last fall. Is anyone tracking all of the allegations and investigations surrounding OOXML?
Same in Germany (Score:5, Interesting)
Heise reports that the vote process in Germany was manipulated, too, although on a more obvious level:
link [heise.de] (German only, sorry)
The members of the German institute for norms (DIN) were basically unable to vote "no", only "yes" and "abstain" were allowed.
The UK appears to be voting 'yes' (Score:5, Interesting)
I sent the following yesterday to:
Mike Low <mike.low@bsi-global.com>
Jean Stride <Jean.stride@bsigroup.com
Adrian Stokes <Adrian.Stokes@cat-ltd.demon.co.uk>
I have not received a reply.
UKUUG is seeking a member who will represent them on the tech advisory committee as our current rep no longer has the time.
**** email sent ****
I am writing is my capacity as Chairman of the UKUUG [ukuug.org] (UK's Unix & Open Systems User Group).
I was appalled to hear it rumoured that the BSI is intending to approve the fast tracking of the
Microsoft sponsored OOXML format (DIS29500) while there are still so many outstanding questions
about the draft standard. In this letter I make no comment about the long term suitability
of OOXML as an ISO standard, my main issue today is that fast tracking it is wrong.
An ISO standard should be well defined and capable of multiple independent implementations.
The whole point is to allow users of the standard to have products from different vendors
work together just as well as a product from a single vendor. If an ISO standard is
insufficiently precise to allow this then the reputation of ISO as a standards setting
body will suffer severely; with a consequential effect on International trade.
With this in mind, if BSI approves the fast tracking of OOXML it will do severe damage
users' confidence in standards in general and to the reputations of those organisations
who have approved this broken standard: BSI and ISO.
Technical people will regard standards less highly leading to a long term
erosion of use of standards. Do you personally want to be responsible for this ?
I thought that BSI meetings were open, but now find that they are secret. I find this
astounding, it makes me wonder what really happens in those meetings. Will you publish
unedited minutes and allow independent observers in the future ?
The last time that this was aired in public, I remember a BSI member commenting that the number
of comments about this was unprecedented. This shows that there is a great public interest
in this issue and that fast tracking would not meet public approval; people will wonder
who you represent and whose interests you serve.
On the standard itself: I am aware that some of the problems have been addressed, but that
there are large numbers of other ones that are still contentious. There are many parts
that are not properly defined. For these reasons OOXML is not fit for purpose as it stands.
It is possible that these problems may be fixed by the standard being fully discussed,
IE the fast tracking is not appropriate for OOXML.
I call on BSI to act in the interests of the UK public and say 'No to fast tracking of OOXML'.
If I can be of any assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards
Poland? Just the regular chaos (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, come on. Don't take them seriously. The person responsible for distributing the e-mails will be sacked (just in a few months).
grrrr. (Score:5, Interesting)
in the meantime it risks destroying the credibilty of a mahor standard body (to further the commercial aims of one company).
and, of course, it reduces the possible impact of a simpler, superior standard (to further the commercial aims of one company).
the more I read about this the madder I become.
there is an old saying if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck. the simplest explanation in all cases points beck to some seriously disturbing manipulation by one particular company - and the brazen bare faced manor in which it is done is simply breathtaking. sure there is nothing *illegal* in padding up membership of committees to get the votes that you want - but by any measure it is underhanded and a dirty tactic.
Microsoft == big $ == corruption ? (Score:2, Interesting)
I did not read the OOXML proposal, I understand that there has been numerous remarks on the technical ground only. Those comments have been partly addressed by Microsoft and therefore another round of discussion on this proposal is in order.
What astounds me is that there is so much shadowness, hidden agendas, personal interests, overt corruption and manipulation in the process! I mean, what do these people evil people think will happen if OOXML becomes an ISO standard? Do they have vested interests in Microsoft Corp.? Do they have shares in software companies making OOXML editors? Do they think that Microsoft will send them big crates of dollars (the greenback being so low, I don't know what people outside U.S. would do with that) if they 'win'?
What will happen if OOXML becomes a standard? Won't there be any more choice for individual governments to choose their own computer format for exchanging documents? ISO will only have one more reference in its catalog, and everybody will move on?
The only thing I am very looking forward is for prosecutors to investigate the interests I was talking about earlier, find who is behind it, and go berserk on his/her/their ass(es).
FIPS-151 (Score:4, Interesting)
Bad implementations of standards prevent the adoption of real standards.
Ironically this bit them later on, so they ended up buying a company (Softway Systems) that had extended the POSIX subsystem and removed the restrictions because they actually found they needed a working POSIX environment themselves. This totally bailed them out after they had twice failed to convert Hotmail from FreeBSD to Windows NT.
Re:Big MS Victory Already (Score:5, Interesting)
I have already vowed to never use Vista (XP is the last MS OS for me). But this has pushed me over the edge. I have a few Windows programs that I really enjoy using that don't work in Wine, but I don't care any more. MS will not only never get another cent of my money but I am going to purge them completely from my life. Over the next few weeks I am going to remove XP from my computer (100% *nix now), never use the Office suite (Open Office and IMAP), and look for opportunities to inform others about their choice in OS and software.
I'm not alone either. As I've been tracking this I've been politely forwarding information to friends and family, several of which have started expressing interest in using *nix or other MS alternatives. My wife, who runs her own business, has now stated that as soon as professional Adobe products are ever available on *nix platforms then she will remove MS as well (she already chooses Thunderbird/Lightning) over Outlook. My children are more familiar with a *nix system than they are Windows system (my son loves the Tux suite of games as well as Gcompris).
My efforts are just a drop in the sea, but my immediate friends and family are now at least are aware of the choice they have. And I think that this realization of choice is what MS fears the most.
Re:Big MS Victory Already (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe that Microsoft has miscalculated. I am sure they developed their strategy a long time ago when they decided to embark upon this misadventure with OOXML. At that time, "standards" was a pretty obscure and esoteric topic that few people besides the experts ever considered. Of course they must have calculated that they may upset a few people in the regular course of things, but I am sure they never predicted the scrutiny by hundreds of thousands of non-experts the world over as they are receiving now. Who would have?
Corporations, even evil ones, are very conscious of public perception. Why else would they spend millions of dollars on public relations? Make no doubt about it - Microsoft must be very concerned right now about how this has turned out, in regards to the negative publicity and ill will it has garnered. It will be a hollow, Pyhrric victory for them if OOXML gains ISO status.
I have no doubt they may have even factored the cost of potential fines from the EU. What's another billion dollar fine when the stakes of the game for Microsoft are so much higher than that? However, I bet they never figured on the massive outrage that they have generated. That can not be so easily fixed by simply paying a fine and being done with it. On top of their misfortunes with Vista and a pending class action suite and the bad publicity that will bring, they must be very concerned. There is no telling where all this bad karma will lead them. Such uncertainties are very bad for business. Microsoft miscalculated when they embarked on the "Vista Ready" program, and they miscalculated when they embarked up the OOXML campaign. Their leadership is floundering. With threatening technological changes on the horizon like growing storm clouds, they are in navigating in troubled waters without a moral compass to guide them.
Time for a crazy theory (Score:1, Interesting)
OK, this is probably just nuts, and a result of posting in the morning before having any caffeine to boot my brain, but a weird theory just came to mind. I'll present it for the general amusement and ridicule of the Slashdot crowd.
A lot of complaints about OOXML are over things that it did the same as, or better than, ODF. For example, one of the complaints was that it did not fully specify how to do password hashing. But ODF is even less forthcoming in this regard. It just says that you should hash any password you store in the file. It doesn't say what hash you should use, or tell you how to record in the file what hash is used so others can figure out how to process the file. But because of these complaints about OOXML, it now specifies password hashing in enough detail that you can implement it from the spec and referenced documents.
A second example: calendars. OOXML was dinged for not giving a precise reference for each supported it calendar. It just had a list of calendars, and for each a short description. But ODF was even terser. It just, in one sentence, gives a list of the names of the supported calendars, with no reference at all. But because OOXML was dinged for inadequate calendar specs, OOXML now for each gives a precise reference. For example, all you'll find in ODF about the hijri calendar is that one word in that list (and I think there is one example document fragment where it has that word in it). In OOXML now, it says this about the hijri calendar:
There are a lot of things like this in there--things where OOXML is now specified much more precisely than ODF. Places where you can figure out from the spec itself what to do, whereas if you are implementing ODF, you have to fall back to looking at OpenOffice source code to see what they did and match it.
And this has had a very predictable effect. A lot of third party programs and sites are starting to support OOXML, whereas ODF doesn't seem to be growing much beyond OpenOffice and the other free office suites. Reading blog entries from people who have tried to implement OOXML and ODF, I see that the OOXML ones are having an easier time. The ODF ones are more likely to run into something that is underspecified or ambiguous (at least if they are sticking to the standard, rather than working from 1.2, which is not a standard yet)
The net result of OOXML being required to clear a much higher bar than any previous document standard is that OOXML has become the most useful document specification. And how did this happen?
The surprising answer: IBM. There has been a lot of technical criticism of OOXML, but also a lot of FUD. And when you look at the FUD, and trace it back, a heck of a lot of it ends up coming from IBM.
Why? The net result of this is to make OOXML better, and to ultimately harm ODF. But IBM wouldn't want to harm ODF...
Or would they? Sun effectively controls ODF. Sun and IBM are competitors, to a greater extent than IBM and Microsoft are competitors. Could IBM have decided that they are not comfortable with Sun's tight reins over ODF? So they started a FUD effort against OOXML, knowing that it would result in (1) OOXML becoming a better spec than ODF, and (2) prompting Microsoft to turn more control over to ECMA than Sun has turned over to OASIS?
To put it succinctly, is IBM trying, in a very roundabout way, to kill ODF?