couch_warrior writes with a BBC article about Japan's choice to restrain political speech in the 21st century. The nation of Japan bans the use of internet sites to solicit voters in its upper house elections. Based on election laws drawn up in the 50s, candidates are restricted in the ways they can reach their constituents. Candidates are even restrained from distributing leaflets that will reach more than 3% of the voters. What's more, people who are trying to change the laws are failing. Despite heavy internet usage and a strong installed base of high-speed connectivity, young people just don't feel involved in politics. "In Japan, 95% of people in their 20s surf the web, but only a third of them bother to vote. Some, though, do not seem keen on politicians using the web to try to win their support. 'I believe that internet resources are not very official,' says Kentaro Shimano, a student at Temple University in Tokyo. 'YouTube is more casual; you watch music videos or funny videos on it, but if the government or any politicians are on the web it doesn't feel right.' Haruka Konishi agrees. 'Japanese politics is something really serious,' she says. 'Young people shouldn't be involved, I guess because they're not serious enough or they don't have the education.' There cannot be many places in the world where students feel their views should not count. Perhaps it is really a reflection of the reality — that they do not."
In any democracy, all people who are affected by the laws should have a say in how those laws get made. Indeed, they have a responsibility and a duty to make their voices heard.
To paraphrase an old saw about reading, "the person who doesn't vote is no better off than the person who cannot vote!"
One thing that scares me is that Mickey Mouse can't tell children to vote, but the RIAA sells products to kids (and to everyone), and with that money they lobby congressmen into approving the laws they want.
Suddenly i remember that biblical prophecy about the number of the beast and that everyone must put it in their foreheads to get what they want. Why does it seem SO similar to me?:(
As long as the aforementioned hypothetical 18-year-old can't be asked by his/her country to serve, and die in its service, I guess I'm fine with that. As far as this much-older-than-18-year-old is concerned, though -- if you're old enough to be a soldier, a sailor, a member of the police force, or a firefighter, then you should be old enough to vote.
As long as the aforementioned hypothetical 18-year-old can't be asked by his/her country to serve, and die in its service, I guess I'm fine with that.
Then again, 18 year olds in the military aren't doing a lot of thinking for themselves, are they? They are there to be molded into weapons. I think that's why youth is preferred.
Actually no. The vast majority of non-officers have never been to college. Many barely finished high school. Another large percentage did ok in high school, but can't afford college and are in it for the GI bill. The number of recruits from the middle and upper class are vanishingly small.
agreed. i'm 27 soon and i've only just grown a brain in the last few years. before age 24, I just had no fucking clue, and worse yet i THOUGHT i did just like others my age.
i know there's probably plenty of people reading this aged 17 - 25, who'll hate this simple fact. Your too young to have experienced enough to have much of a world view.
granted i'm not old enough to look down my nose at you, but i have atleast the realisation i have lots to learn.
agreed. i'm 27 soon and i've only just grown a brain in the last few years. before age 24, I just had no fucking clue, and worse yet i THOUGHT i did just like others my age.
Have you maybe though that this is you and a fraction of the rest of the population? I am tired of someone's experience being expanded onto applying to everyone as a quasi-universal experience.
I know people over 50 that still act and think like teenagers. And I know teenagers that have it together without acting like they are the masters of the world.
That said, advocating passiveness of the original parent is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. For one, if I wanted to learn how to cook - do I stay back, observe for years, and wait to do anything? No, I absorb one thing at a time, and then try it myself. I might fail the first few times, but I will become infinitely better much sooner than somebody who becomes an armchair cook watching Rachael Ray all day.
Second, passiveness and complacency is precisely the problem with politics. Let the more experienced people take care of it. Well, we have let others take care of it. Look at our country today - two big sides of "experienced" adults mostly with rigid adherence to "their" political party despite all else, our nation with neck up in debt with several looming financial disasters in the future our politicians believe they can either borrow their way out of or don't care since they'll be long gone by then, etcetera.
Yeah, I'd rather have people in as early as possible. Yeah, they will make mistakes early on. But I figure someone inexperienced at 18 making mistakes will recover and be more willing to change their opinions than someone who is 35, observationally experienced and practically inexperienced, and set in their ways.
Let's not forget, many of the "experienced" senior citizens are also voting to look out of their interests. It could and should be counterbalanced.
*You may notice my sarcastic use of experience throughout. I believe anybody who supports a particular political party in this day and age, particularly one of the big 2, has not learned anything of value from their so-called experience. There are good people in both parties, but that is inspite of the party's best trying otherwise. Since most people of any age fall in this category, a lot of experience is not being put to use anyway. I refer you all to George Washington's farewell address.
I'm 37 soon, and now I finally have it all figured out. When I was 27, I hadn't figured out ANYthing, and worse yet, I THOUGHT I had grown a brain in the last few years, just like others my age. I know there's probably plenty of people reading this aged 27 who'll hate this simple fact. Your [sic] too young to have learned how to spell "you're" or to have much of a world view.
I'm not sure how the Japanese military works, and it's been a long time since I was 18, but I do remember thinking that if I'm old enough to be sent into combat, then I'm damn sure old enough to vote.
If we can trust 18 year olds with a ballet, a motorcycle, a firearm, or to drive a tank in Iraq, it sounds like pure hypocrisy to deny them a beer. I'm sure Japan has its fair share of hypocrisy.
And the 60 year old is going to be an intelligent voter? They're not going to blindly vote for any asshole who promises "morality" and "the good old days"?
Face it, all ages of voters have the potential to be (and often are) stupid. Frankly, I've talked to some pretty damn thoughtful 12 year olds. I'm not saying that newborns should vote, but 18 sure as hell is an arbitrary line in the sand. Some people grow up before then, and some never do.
> So really, low turnout of inexperienced people is not bad. We don't need any more people voting for the guy with the attractive haircut.
Hey, if I just turned 18, maybe it's just possible that I could actually be more politically informed and qualified to vote than 90% of the 30-year-olds out there. How are you going to determine I'm not?
The important point being, you don't have the power to keep me from voting just because you think I'm voting for a haircut!
How many 16 year olds have experience of getting up at 4am to go to work, year after fucking year, just to meet the payments on a mortgage/credit card/loan/gas bill/electric bill/whatever ? How many 16 year olds can be trusted to vote for politicians that promise decent care for the elderly, and reasonable pension provisioning ? How many 16 year olds actually give a flying fuck about anything except themselves, or things that affect them directly ? The reason I mention 16 is because Bliars govt
I thought about modding your post down, thus martyring your post by censoring it. It would prove your point in a very ironic way. But then someone else would post and say that Slashdot should add an "Ironic" moderation. If that existed then your post would be modded back up as Ironic, making it no longer ironic since your post's score would be high. An astute moderator would observe your post is without irony, and would moderate it overrated. Thus would begin a vicious circle consuming Slashdot Moderat
...between Japanese and American students. American students think they know everything and people care what they have to say. Japanese students know everything--including that nobody cares.
Japanese university students hardly know everything. For the most part, university is the first time that they get a tiny bit of intellectual freedom from the test taking grind of junior and senior high. Most of the university students I meet in Japan are still relatively underdeveloped in terms of personality and it is not until their dreaded job search that they start to become part of society. Point in case, usually when someone becomes a full-time employee they are then referred to as "shakai-jin" or
Acccctually the main problem is the main populous of Japan just doesn't care. They are FAR more apathetic to everything going on around them than any other simple minded part of the US. They generally don't care as long as something doesn't bother their microcosm of life. Even at that they'll far too often just move aside when it does. I really like the country (hell I'm still enjoying it even though were having an Fing MONSOON hitting land here), but thats something I just have never been able to get used
But when it comes to voting, American students think that their vote doesn't count, whereas Japanese students think their vote shouldn't count. Big difference, but ultimately, the same outcome: they don't vote.
I suspect Japanese kids saying they "shouldn't" vote is more of a cultural thing. I don't think the difference is actually that big insofar as why they're not voting. If kids aren't voting, no matter where they are, they just don't care enough and, if you could get them to be honest, they'd probably admit they don't *know* enough about what they're supposed to be voting for/against. That and they're probably more cynical about the whole thing than their parents.
Um, I teach university here in Japan. I've also taught university in the states. So believe me when I say:
These kids are dumb as rocks. Really, really dumb.
The argument for these people being smart and this education system being good is predicated on test scores. As an educator and an assessor, I can't tell you how dumb that is. Basically (and I speak from experience in the K-12 education system here) no one does any learning in school until a few weeks before a big test, and then everyone crams FOR THE TEST. They don't actually learn anything; they just learn how to take the test. The most immediate place you can see this is by trying to talk to any Japanese college graduate in English. These people have all had about 10 years of English. They should be able to carry on a basic conversation, right? But you'll find that they can only spit out a few words, horribly mispronounced, and usually lacking any kind of syntactic structure. Why? Because they've never been expected to DO anything based on what they studied; they were only asked to pass tests. And they do. But they have zero real-world language--or any other kind of--proficiency, unless they've become involved in something in their careers.
Companies here fill the role we in the Western world give to schools. Now, I have many CS friend who bemoan the fact that they didn't really learn how to program well until they hit the corporate world, but that's not even what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is that some of my English major students walk out of here into programming jobs--with no prior experience or education or even an interest in programming. Why? Because when they interviewed for the company (and you interview for COMPANIES here--not jobs--the company then will decide if they want you and where you should go and what you should do), they looked like the kind of person who'd make a good programmer.
So if that's the case, what is the impetus to learn anything in school? If it has no bearing on your employability, save the name of the school, why bother actually learning about politics, history, language, ANYTHING? Answer: none. There is no reason whatsoever to learn anything, unless you just happen to be interested. So my boys are interested in drinking and getting laid (nothing wrong with either, mind you), and my girls are interested in Prada and Louis Vuitton (and I have no problem with brand goods, either--although I'm a Gaultier man myself). Very few, however, are interested in anything we'd call "important."
Of COURSE there are exceptions. Of course. But the sick and sad thing that I see over and over is that the exceptions--the people who really did learn things and really are aware of their surroundings--do not fare any better than their benighted colleagues. They don't get better jobs. I'm sure that wherever they end up working, they do a better job, but they still get the same kind of generic jobs with the HORRIFYING starting salaries as the idiots around them.
Japan is not a meritocracy, and it shows. They have done very well for themselves by refusing to compete domestically and by keeping foreign entities on a short leash in Japan. But the lack of sound Japanese leadership has had a lot of repercussions that it seems most people don't realize. Look into who runs Nissan. Who has controlling stakes in Mazda. Mitsubishi. Who runs Sony. Etc. These "Japanese" companies--the companies we point to to say "Japan is amazing"--haven't been run by Japanese people for a long time. The exceptions, of course, are Toyota and Honda, and they're big ones. But still.
PLEASE stop buying the Japan hype, people. If you came over here and lived for a few months, you'd be just like every other gaijin, saying "I always thought Japan was X, but it's actually Y!" It is nothing like what you imagine. It is a silly place.
1) Yeah, I was one of those token gaijin. If all he's doing is being the human tape recorder, though, that means he's crap. I knew people like that. If you're going to be serious about being an ALT (assistant language teacher), you at least make your own lessons. A big part of that program (I worked for the government; lately schools are turning to private companies) is about just providing entertainment for the kids in hopes that they won't notice that English class, which should be fun and empowering, is the most boring awful experience in school. I have a master's in English, requiring a lot of study of linguistics, but I did not know that there was a "rule" for when to pronounce "the" with a schwa and when to pronounce it with an [i] ("ee"). This is the kind of idiotic crap they teach in English class. If you don't follow the pronunciation pattern, people will still understand what you mean, but if you skip the article or use the wrong one, or use one when you shouldn't, they won't. The problem is, the latter only comes with meaningful communicative practice; the former can be crammed for a multiple-choice test. Ugh, don't get me started.
2) I saw horrible, horrible things in the education system here. Heartbreaking things. I, like much of the Slashdot crowd I'm sure, endured more than my fair share of bullying in junior high and high school, and made it clear to the kids in question that nothing would be tolerated on my watch. A loud and public dressing-down of two bullies who stood up from their desks, walked over and started punching a fat kid from both sides IN THE MIDDLE OF CLASS got me a private talking-to by the principal. Telling a kid to go home after he PUSHED ME AND TOOK A SWING AT ME (on the same day that he TRIPPED AN ELDERLY FEMALE TEACHER IN THE HALL) got me a lecture on how I don't have the right to deny this piece of shit an education.
My wife was a teacher at that school for 15 years. She once went on an exchange to a US high school. She couldn't believe how "adult" they were, and she came back horribly depressed (she quit only a couple years after).
As a college teacher, some of the crap I deal with on a daily basis is the stuff of junior high. I have to ask for quiet. I have people carrying on full-volume conversations across the room WHILE I'M TALKING (and not at the beginning of class--right in the middle). I have people who walk into class, plop down, and GO TO SLEEP (these are classes of like 25 people--not lecture halls). I point out that they don't have to come if they don't want. They say they'll be good. "BE GOOD." IN COLLEGE. It is unbelievable. And this is at a pretty good school, and I am (I hear) one of the more interesting teachers. I hope I never find out what it's like to be one of the boring ones.
3) Technology... I just can never figure out where this idea comes from. I'm sitting in front of a computer full of Taiwanese parts designed by American companies. I have a 50M DSL line that runs at 3M on a good day (see, those amazing numbers you read about the speeds here are the speeds AT THE POST--they have little bearing on what you'll get in your house--yay Japanese lack of consumer rights!). My phone is a Sharp (Japanese), but is almost as big as my first Motorola flip-phone in the US (ca 1998), the big difference being that there I could afford to talk on it. My bill is $70/mo, with no minutes. I can call my wife all I want, but I'm careful about using it for anything but. It's 3G, but I once read an article on MSN while waiting for the doctor and when I got my bill I found that that little web surf cost me $25.
When I want tech, I wait until a trip to the US, where I'll have more choice for less money. I just honestly have no idea what people are talking about, "technology" in Japan. Here, more than anywhere else, it seems, technology only serves the companies that sell it. Anything that might make something useful to the user is disabled or requires a trip to Akihabara, which has become a kind of manga
Or perhaps there's simply a nation more apathetic than the American one?
Well, if that's the case, then I'd say their relatively low crime rate (and ridiculously low rate of gun crime), low unemployment, high literacy rate, high median income, and the fact that they haven't been involved in a major war since WWII shows their apathy is working out pretty well for them.
Maybe we could learn a thing or two from their political process? Is is serving us in any way, shape or form to have presidential election cam
The article talks a little about the loud speaker vans candidates usually use to get their message out. I hate them! The volume they blast their cookie cutter pleads for endorsement are as deafening as they are annoying. My house is a little ways from the road that they drive by, and it sounds like they're right outside my window. If you're unlucky enough to be on the side of the road when they pass, you need to cover your ears to prevent damage to your hearing, all while they're smiling and waving in white gloves. The worst is when election day is coming, so you have three or four vans all trying to out do each other.
Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. But it gives you an idea about what those damned trucks are like. After reading this article, it looks like things won't get any better for a while.
Hrm. I've never personally seen one of those, but I wonder what the legality is of responding with your own megaphone? Maybe even following them around, refuting everything they say over and over, citing examples of negative things they did, etc. Or making a parody campaign running under the platform of banning non-police megaphone use in the streets and tell everyone to vote for you instead
Hrm. I've never personally seen one of those, but I wonder what the legality is of responding with your own megaphone? Maybe even following them around, refuting everything they say over and over, citing examples of negative things they did, etc.
OK, first of all, senselessly refuting everything they say and citing examples of negative things they did is not only incredibly childish, it's also considered slander and harrassment, which is illegal in many countries. Not the best way to make your point.
As a foreigner in Japan, it's also a really good way to get arrested and lose your job. I had a friend of mine who jokingly posted a fake flyer on a designated political materials bulletin board near the train station, and he was called up in front of
In Japan campaign ads on TV and radio (and any other electronic mass-media, I assume) are not allowed in any form. Having experienced both the Japanese campaign vans and the obnoxious election-season American TV ads, I'd say it's a toss-up -- well except for the fact that you can just turn off your damn TV.
'Young people shouldn't be involved, I guess because they're not serious enough or they don't have the education.'
I'm not up to date on the civics education in Japan, but I feel that in America it's sorely lacking and really explains why we have such poor turnouts for our elections. I didn't have Civics (American Government, or whatever you may have had instead) until Senior year in high school, and by then it was obvious that most of the students in my class didn't care. It seemed as though most were content to sleep or slack off during the class or agonize the teacher with idiotic questions or annoying answers.
I think if we would have had the class at a much younger age and a teacher who promoted the importance of voting and participating in government, more students would have been interested in their government and the political process, perhaps to the point that they would research candidates on their own and make informed political decisions or have intelligent political discussion beyond "Bush is a Nazi!"
Looking back on my education as a child, I really wished that there would have been more classes like this at a younger age or just more schooling in general. I look at the other countries where children receive more schooling than here in America and wonder why this isn't something that we as a country aren't attempting to emulate.
I think the quote was referring to education that would enable one to vote intelligently, rather than education that would motivate one to vote. I had plenty of the second kind in elementary school. That could be why I was an idealistic little kid and still am*.
Still, despite the civics classes I had in elementary school and high school, I have a hard time feeling educated when I vote. I try to read every article about local politics I see, but it's like they're written in code. I know what all the wo
Im not sure what the implications of this are in Japan, if it ensures all parties get the same air time Id say its good. If used by the ruling parties to stifle others, ofcourse not so good. A totally open system will only favour the party with most money/biggest corporate backers.
Where I live political ads on tv are illegal, and I think most agree its for the best. Anyone wanting to sling mud on another candidate has to do so face to face in a debate, and be ready to back it up or be called on it.
I've long thought that all forms of election advertising should be illegal and "reaching the voters" should be done exclusively through debates where everyone gets equal air time. You shouldn't have to be able to afford TV commercials to run in an election.
The article title "Japan Bans Use of Web Sites in Elections" is unusually inaccurate even for Slashdot. If one actually reads the article, they find that what is banned isn't having a web site. It is changing the content or putting up a new site in the final few weeks before an election.
If I recall correctly, this isn't even a new policy. I think Japan does it for every election.
Japan has no shortage of cultural excesses. (e.g. the sound trucks). They probably are addressing some real, and hopefull
As a voter (not in Japan, but in another country), I found the easiest methof to find out who I was voting for is the Internet - a quick way to determine the platform of each political candidate. Some of the candidates don't have a website, but a quick search on other information didn't pull up anything - which usually indicates a minor candidate. In my opinion, restricting the use of websites would make research more difficult - if everyone was serious about voting (which isn't the case) where they would c
I recently saw a documentary called "Election Day" about a Japanese man running for office. While noting that Japanese documentaries stylistically are very different than modern American documentaries: what happens, boring or not is what you see; it's still incredibly interesting.
There seem to be no television ads, no yard signs with slogans, no big campaign rallies.
Instead there's the use of existing events: politicians visiting school exhibitions, attending morning exercise programs for the elderly, and so on.
There's also a lot of the politician himself walking around town, introducing himself to people on the street, and standing around with a bullhorn at various popular locations ( ex. the train station ) apologising for the intrusion and explaining his views on things to anyone who will listen ( no one ever seems to stop and listen for very long ).
In what seems to be the culmination of the campaign there's even a bizarre bus tour around the small town while he and his wife shout things over a pa and wave politely from the bus.
In contrast with American politics -- it's strange to say the least.
All in all though it was refreshing to see a politician taking cat naps in his ultra tiny car and pounding the pavement all by himself to connect with everyday people and to drum up votes.
It's not that Japan "just banned" the use of web sites; it's that the law as written doesn't allow it, and hasn't been changed (in relevant part) since the web came about. Or rather, it's that the law is believed not to allow web sites; a few candidates that tried it got a warning that it "might" break the law, and none of them were willing to actually take it to the courts. (Interestingly enough, in this election the political parties have started posting their non-candidate members' speeches, arguing that they're allowed as descriptions of party activities rather than restricted candidate activities. We'll have to see how that holds up.)
Incidentally, a similar problem with videos of campaign speeches was discussed here in April [slashdot.org].
I've been in Japan at election time. There's a distinct lack of information to go off:
* You'll find each neighborhood plastered with election posters from 30 or so candidates. These show the candidate grinning or looking stern, their name and a 'Vote for Tanaka'.
* Election Vans drive around the neighborhood saying 'I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me. I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me. I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me.' These annoy the crap out of everyone.
* That's all folks! Try making your choice off of that!
* Websites would have given a place for some intelligent debate, because you get nothing from the above. If you watch NHK's News Hour you will get some reasonably intelligent analysis, but for local issues you have to rely on the local stations and they do next to no politics. If your household watches the variety show or the kids want to watch anime channels instead, you'll get no information at all.
* There's only one real party: The LDP. Sure, there are fringe parties, but apart from one glitch (quickly) corrected the LDP have always held power. (Don't get too cocky: In the US the Republicans and Democrats are pretty similar. Last Election both Pro-War and Pro-Big Business.)
* Most Japanese don't talk politics. They've realized it doesn't make a difference. They try and carve out a living and hope the politicians leave them alone (Again don't get cocky. The hours you spend sitting around shooting the breeze with your buddies might feel good, but ultimately makes no difference either.)
* There's a big disaster looming in Japan because the pension system has been paying out more than is coming in. This has been known for 20 years, but no one has had the guts to do anything about it. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's plan to Save Japan? He's going to make sure children know how to use chopsticks. Other than that, he's done nothing. How did Abe get elected? He didn't. The LDP appointed him. His Grandpa was an important politician and now it's "his turn".
You're quite right. I live in Japan at the moment, and as far as I can tell, Japan is barely a democracy. There's one party that always gets elected and decides everything, and the average person neither cares nor talks about politics. That doesn't mean people don't have a sense of civic duty; au contraire, they're very active in the nighbourhood and in their kids' schools. Japan's culture is different, and I suspect it's the possibility of public shame and humiliation that restrains corruption -- the minist
1) There is constant political and election coverage of election on the web (try Yahoo, etc. which have whole sites dedicated to election info.) Only political candidates are banned from updating their web pages. There is not suddenly a blanket thrown over the entire Japanese internet media. 2) There is constant political and election coverage in newspapers. How did you forget about those? As I recall, Japan has the highest newspaper readership in the world.
You know, these things are not 'serious' or 'educated' enough to invade our holy elections, we cannot let it to get into the voters attention... they could listen to it. What's worse is that we have absolutely no control over it, some guy in his basement could make a video and submit it to youtube, at least with the other ways (the expensive ways) there's more control regarding who is able to spread political speech...
Once the politicians begin to "protect" the citizens from certain kind of speeches or m
"In Japan, 95% of people in their 20s surf the web, but only a third of them bother to vote."
Here in the United States, we get all the fliers and websites and spam and junk mail and road signs and everything else you could want, and we still get a similar result.
It doesn't matter how you "reach out to the voters" if the voters still don't like you.
Living in Japan, I have various issues with the Japenese political system. Not being Japanese, I don't think it's my job to make any changes, though.
It's definetely impacted by the seniority system that permeates the country. If you're old, you have a say, if you're young, you do what you're told. Obviously this is not a hard rule, but there definetely is such a trend. The standard view is that such a system would encouage some serious corruption (having a real and powerful organizations of organized crime does not help, they assasinated a difficult major during the last election).
I can't say I understand the Japanese democratic systems. I'm sure it protects the status quo, will probably change, though will change very slowly as the next 2 generations grow up. The system works somehow, and people still have to option to change things if they get completely out of hand.
While things are changing somewhat, there are two cultural elements at work here: the first is a strong value on humility and modesty about one's self and one's family that pervades society. Bragging and bravado is not thought well of whatsoever. Also, there remains a lot of deference to age and experience: until one has proven oneself, there's little value in what one might think or say.
Nonsense. (Score:2, Insightful)
To paraphrase an old saw about reading, "the person who doesn't vote is no better off than the person who cannot vote!"
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Suddenly i remember that biblical prophecy about the number of the beast and that everyone must put it in their foreheads to get what they want. Why does it seem SO similar to me?
Define "definitely" (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Define "definitely" (Score:4, Informative)
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that is above average education and wealth (Score:3, Insightful)
The vast majority of people in the USA have never been to college, barely finished high school, and can't afford college.
There's nothing wrong with offering these people an opportunity. They have the right to refuse, though that might be a foolish decision.
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Or buy beer, get married, be tried for a felony with full penalties, etc. etc. etc.
You got my vote.
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i know there's probably plenty of people reading this aged 17 - 25, who'll hate this simple fact. Your too young to have experienced enough to have much of a world view.
granted i'm not old enough to look down my nose at you, but i have atleast the realisation i have lots to learn.
Re:definitely not! (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you maybe though that this is you and a fraction of the rest of the population? I am tired of someone's experience being expanded onto applying to everyone as a quasi-universal experience.
I know people over 50 that still act and think like teenagers. And I know teenagers that have it together without acting like they are the masters of the world.
That said, advocating passiveness of the original parent is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. For one, if I wanted to learn how to cook - do I stay back, observe for years, and wait to do anything? No, I absorb one thing at a time, and then try it myself. I might fail the first few times, but I will become infinitely better much sooner than somebody who becomes an armchair cook watching Rachael Ray all day.
Second, passiveness and complacency is precisely the problem with politics. Let the more experienced people take care of it. Well, we have let others take care of it. Look at our country today - two big sides of "experienced" adults mostly with rigid adherence to "their" political party despite all else, our nation with neck up in debt with several looming financial disasters in the future our politicians believe they can either borrow their way out of or don't care since they'll be long gone by then, etcetera.
Yeah, I'd rather have people in as early as possible. Yeah, they will make mistakes early on. But I figure someone inexperienced at 18 making mistakes will recover and be more willing to change their opinions than someone who is 35, observationally experienced and practically inexperienced, and set in their ways.
Let's not forget, many of the "experienced" senior citizens are also voting to look out of their interests. It could and should be counterbalanced.
*You may notice my sarcastic use of experience throughout. I believe anybody who supports a particular political party in this day and age, particularly one of the big 2, has not learned anything of value from their so-called experience. There are good people in both parties, but that is inspite of the party's best trying otherwise. Since most people of any age fall in this category, a lot of experience is not being put to use anyway. I refer you all to George Washington's farewell address.
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Your post in 10 years (Score:4, Funny)
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If we can trust 18 year olds with a ballet, a motorcycle, a firearm, or to drive a tank in Iraq, it sounds like pure hypocrisy to deny them a beer.
I'm sure Japan has its fair share of hypocrisy.
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The rap star says we should vote for... OR DIE
Re:definitely not! (Score:5, Insightful)
Face it, all ages of voters have the potential to be (and often are) stupid. Frankly, I've talked to some pretty damn thoughtful 12 year olds. I'm not saying that newborns should vote, but 18 sure as hell is an arbitrary line in the sand. Some people grow up before then, and some never do.
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> So really, low turnout of inexperienced people is not bad. We don't need any more people voting for the guy with the attractive haircut.
Hey, if I just turned 18, maybe it's just possible that I could actually be more politically informed and qualified to vote than 90% of the 30-year-olds out there. How are you going to determine I'm not?
The important point being, you don't have the power to keep me from voting just because you think I'm voting for a haircut!
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How many 16 year olds have experience of getting up at 4am to go to work, year after fucking year, just to meet the payments on a mortgage/credit card/loan/gas bill/electric bill/whatever ?
How many 16 year olds can be trusted to vote for politicians that promise decent care for the elderly, and reasonable pension provisioning ?
How many 16 year olds actually give a flying fuck about anything except themselves, or things that affect them directly ?
The reason I mention 16 is because Bliars govt
I'm too stupid to be posting a comment. (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's the difference! (Score:5, Insightful)
--josh
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Re:That's the difference! (Score:5, Informative)
Um, I teach university here in Japan. I've also taught university in the states. So believe me when I say:
These kids are dumb as rocks. Really, really dumb.
The argument for these people being smart and this education system being good is predicated on test scores. As an educator and an assessor, I can't tell you how dumb that is. Basically (and I speak from experience in the K-12 education system here) no one does any learning in school until a few weeks before a big test, and then everyone crams FOR THE TEST. They don't actually learn anything; they just learn how to take the test. The most immediate place you can see this is by trying to talk to any Japanese college graduate in English. These people have all had about 10 years of English. They should be able to carry on a basic conversation, right? But you'll find that they can only spit out a few words, horribly mispronounced, and usually lacking any kind of syntactic structure. Why? Because they've never been expected to DO anything based on what they studied; they were only asked to pass tests. And they do. But they have zero real-world language--or any other kind of--proficiency, unless they've become involved in something in their careers.
Companies here fill the role we in the Western world give to schools. Now, I have many CS friend who bemoan the fact that they didn't really learn how to program well until they hit the corporate world, but that's not even what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is that some of my English major students walk out of here into programming jobs--with no prior experience or education or even an interest in programming. Why? Because when they interviewed for the company (and you interview for COMPANIES here--not jobs--the company then will decide if they want you and where you should go and what you should do), they looked like the kind of person who'd make a good programmer.
So if that's the case, what is the impetus to learn anything in school? If it has no bearing on your employability, save the name of the school, why bother actually learning about politics, history, language, ANYTHING? Answer: none. There is no reason whatsoever to learn anything, unless you just happen to be interested. So my boys are interested in drinking and getting laid (nothing wrong with either, mind you), and my girls are interested in Prada and Louis Vuitton (and I have no problem with brand goods, either--although I'm a Gaultier man myself). Very few, however, are interested in anything we'd call "important."
Of COURSE there are exceptions. Of course. But the sick and sad thing that I see over and over is that the exceptions--the people who really did learn things and really are aware of their surroundings--do not fare any better than their benighted colleagues. They don't get better jobs. I'm sure that wherever they end up working, they do a better job, but they still get the same kind of generic jobs with the HORRIFYING starting salaries as the idiots around them.
Japan is not a meritocracy, and it shows. They have done very well for themselves by refusing to compete domestically and by keeping foreign entities on a short leash in Japan. But the lack of sound Japanese leadership has had a lot of repercussions that it seems most people don't realize. Look into who runs Nissan. Who has controlling stakes in Mazda. Mitsubishi. Who runs Sony. Etc. These "Japanese" companies--the companies we point to to say "Japan is amazing"--haven't been run by Japanese people for a long time. The exceptions, of course, are Toyota and Honda, and they're big ones. But still.
PLEASE stop buying the Japan hype, people. If you came over here and lived for a few months, you'd be just like every other gaijin, saying "I always thought Japan was X, but it's actually Y!" It is nothing like what you imagine. It is a silly place.
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Re:Bingo! My daughter's experience exactly. (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Yeah, I was one of those token gaijin. If all he's doing is being the human tape recorder, though, that means he's crap. I knew people like that. If you're going to be serious about being an ALT (assistant language teacher), you at least make your own lessons. A big part of that program (I worked for the government; lately schools are turning to private companies) is about just providing entertainment for the kids in hopes that they won't notice that English class, which should be fun and empowering, is the most boring awful experience in school. I have a master's in English, requiring a lot of study of linguistics, but I did not know that there was a "rule" for when to pronounce "the" with a schwa and when to pronounce it with an [i] ("ee"). This is the kind of idiotic crap they teach in English class. If you don't follow the pronunciation pattern, people will still understand what you mean, but if you skip the article or use the wrong one, or use one when you shouldn't, they won't. The problem is, the latter only comes with meaningful communicative practice; the former can be crammed for a multiple-choice test. Ugh, don't get me started.
2) I saw horrible, horrible things in the education system here. Heartbreaking things. I, like much of the Slashdot crowd I'm sure, endured more than my fair share of bullying in junior high and high school, and made it clear to the kids in question that nothing would be tolerated on my watch. A loud and public dressing-down of two bullies who stood up from their desks, walked over and started punching a fat kid from both sides IN THE MIDDLE OF CLASS got me a private talking-to by the principal. Telling a kid to go home after he PUSHED ME AND TOOK A SWING AT ME (on the same day that he TRIPPED AN ELDERLY FEMALE TEACHER IN THE HALL) got me a lecture on how I don't have the right to deny this piece of shit an education.
My wife was a teacher at that school for 15 years. She once went on an exchange to a US high school. She couldn't believe how "adult" they were, and she came back horribly depressed (she quit only a couple years after).
As a college teacher, some of the crap I deal with on a daily basis is the stuff of junior high. I have to ask for quiet. I have people carrying on full-volume conversations across the room WHILE I'M TALKING (and not at the beginning of class--right in the middle). I have people who walk into class, plop down, and GO TO SLEEP (these are classes of like 25 people--not lecture halls). I point out that they don't have to come if they don't want. They say they'll be good. "BE GOOD." IN COLLEGE. It is unbelievable. And this is at a pretty good school, and I am (I hear) one of the more interesting teachers. I hope I never find out what it's like to be one of the boring ones.
3) Technology... I just can never figure out where this idea comes from. I'm sitting in front of a computer full of Taiwanese parts designed by American companies. I have a 50M DSL line that runs at 3M on a good day (see, those amazing numbers you read about the speeds here are the speeds AT THE POST--they have little bearing on what you'll get in your house--yay Japanese lack of consumer rights!). My phone is a Sharp (Japanese), but is almost as big as my first Motorola flip-phone in the US (ca 1998), the big difference being that there I could afford to talk on it. My bill is $70/mo, with no minutes. I can call my wife all I want, but I'm careful about using it for anything but. It's 3G, but I once read an article on MSN while waiting for the doctor and when I got my bill I found that that little web surf cost me $25.
When I want tech, I wait until a trip to the US, where I'll have more choice for less money. I just honestly have no idea what people are talking about, "technology" in Japan. Here, more than anywhere else, it seems, technology only serves the companies that sell it. Anything that might make something useful to the user is disabled or requires a trip to Akihabara, which has become a kind of manga
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Well, if that's the case, then I'd say their relatively low crime rate (and ridiculously low rate of gun crime), low unemployment, high literacy rate, high median income, and the fact that they haven't been involved in a major war since WWII shows their apathy is working out pretty well for them.
Maybe we could learn a thing or two from their political process? Is is serving us in any way, shape or form to have presidential election cam
Those damn vans. (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. But it gives you an idea about what those damned trucks are like. After reading this article, it looks like things won't get any better for a while.
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Hrm. I've never personally seen one of those, but I wonder what the legality is of responding with your own megaphone? Maybe even following them around, refuting everything they say over and over, citing examples of negative things they did, etc.
OK, first of all, senselessly refuting everything they say and citing examples of negative things they did is not only incredibly childish, it's also considered slander and harrassment, which is illegal in many countries. Not the best way to make your point.
As a foreigner in Japan, it's also a really good way to get arrested and lose your job. I had a friend of mine who jokingly posted a fake flyer on a designated political materials bulletin board near the train station, and he was called up in front of
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Breaking the apathy (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not up to date on the civics education in Japan, but I feel that in America it's sorely lacking and really explains why we have such poor turnouts for our elections. I didn't have Civics (American Government, or whatever you may have had instead) until Senior year in high school, and by then it was obvious that most of the students in my class didn't care. It seemed as though most were content to sleep or slack off during the class or agonize the teacher with idiotic questions or annoying answers.
I think if we would have had the class at a much younger age and a teacher who promoted the importance of voting and participating in government, more students would have been interested in their government and the political process, perhaps to the point that they would research candidates on their own and make informed political decisions or have intelligent political discussion beyond "Bush is a Nazi!"
Looking back on my education as a child, I really wished that there would have been more classes like this at a younger age or just more schooling in general. I look at the other countries where children receive more schooling than here in America and wonder why this isn't something that we as a country aren't attempting to emulate.
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Still, despite the civics classes I had in elementary school and high school, I have a hard time feeling educated when I vote. I try to read every article about local politics I see, but it's like they're written in code. I know what all the wo
good rule (Score:4, Insightful)
If used by the ruling parties to stifle others, ofcourse not so good.
A totally open system will only favour the party with most money/biggest corporate backers.
Where I live political ads on tv are illegal, and I think most agree its for the best. Anyone wanting to sling mud on another candidate has to do so face to face in a debate, and be ready to back it up or be called on it.
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If I recall correctly, this isn't even a new policy. I think Japan does it for every election.
Japan has no shortage of cultural excesses. (e.g. the sound trucks). They probably are addressing some real, and hopefull
Candidate research (Score:2)
In my opinion, restricting the use of websites would make research more difficult - if everyone was serious about voting (which isn't the case) where they would c
Japan Bans Use of Web Sites in Elections (Score:4, Funny)
Election Day (Score:3, Informative)
I recently saw a documentary called "Election Day" about a Japanese man running for office. While noting that Japanese documentaries stylistically are very different than modern American documentaries: what happens, boring or not is what you see; it's still incredibly interesting.
There seem to be no television ads, no yard signs with slogans, no big campaign rallies. Instead there's the use of existing events: politicians visiting school exhibitions, attending morning exercise programs for the elderly, and so on.
There's also a lot of the politician himself walking around town, introducing himself to people on the street, and standing around with a bullhorn at various popular locations ( ex. the train station ) apologising for the intrusion and explaining his views on things to anyone who will listen ( no one ever seems to stop and listen for very long ).
In what seems to be the culmination of the campaign there's even a bizarre bus tour around the small town while he and his wife shout things over a pa and wave politely from the bus.
In contrast with American politics -- it's strange to say the least.
All in all though it was refreshing to see a politician taking cat naps in his ultra tiny car and pounding the pavement all by himself to connect with everyday people and to drum up votes.
Title somewhat misleading (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not that Japan "just banned" the use of web sites; it's that the law as written doesn't allow it, and hasn't been changed (in relevant part) since the web came about. Or rather, it's that the law is believed not to allow web sites; a few candidates that tried it got a warning that it "might" break the law, and none of them were willing to actually take it to the courts. (Interestingly enough, in this election the political parties have started posting their non-candidate members' speeches, arguing that they're allowed as descriptions of party activities rather than restricted candidate activities. We'll have to see how that holds up.)
Incidentally, a similar problem with videos of campaign speeches was discussed here in April [slashdot.org].
Japan at Election Time (Score:5, Interesting)
* You'll find each neighborhood plastered with election posters from 30 or so candidates. These show the candidate grinning or looking stern, their name and a 'Vote for Tanaka'.
* Election Vans drive around the neighborhood saying 'I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me. I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me. I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me.' These annoy the crap out of everyone.
* That's all folks! Try making your choice off of that!
* Websites would have given a place for some intelligent debate, because you get nothing from the above. If you watch NHK's News Hour you will get some reasonably intelligent analysis, but for local issues you have to rely on the local stations and they do next to no politics. If your household watches the variety show or the kids want to watch anime channels instead, you'll get no information at all.
* There's only one real party: The LDP. Sure, there are fringe parties, but apart from one glitch (quickly) corrected the LDP have always held power. (Don't get too cocky: In the US the Republicans and Democrats are pretty similar. Last Election both Pro-War and Pro-Big Business.)
* Most Japanese don't talk politics. They've realized it doesn't make a difference. They try and carve out a living and hope the politicians leave them alone (Again don't get cocky. The hours you spend sitting around shooting the breeze with your buddies might feel good, but ultimately makes no difference either.)
* There's a big disaster looming in Japan because the pension system has been paying out more than is coming in. This has been known for 20 years, but no one has had the guts to do anything about it. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's plan to Save Japan? He's going to make sure children know how to use chopsticks. Other than that, he's done nothing. How did Abe get elected? He didn't. The LDP appointed him. His Grandpa was an important politician and now it's "his turn".
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Japan's culture is different, and I suspect it's the possibility of public shame and humiliation that restrains corruption -- the minist
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2) There is constant political and election coverage in newspapers. How did you forget about those? As I recall, Japan has the highest newspaper readership in the world.
3) There is a lot of political and election cove
Protect the political stablishment (Score:2)
You know, these things are not 'serious' or 'educated' enough to invade our holy elections, we cannot let it to get into the voters attention... they could listen to it. What's worse is that we have absolutely no control over it, some guy in his basement could make a video and submit it to youtube, at least with the other ways (the expensive ways) there's more control regarding who is able to spread political speech...
Once the politicians begin to "protect" the citizens from certain kind of speeches or m
Yeah, so? (Score:3, Insightful)
Here in the United States, we get all the fliers and websites and spam and junk mail and road signs and everything else you could want, and we still get a similar result.
It doesn't matter how you "reach out to the voters" if the voters still don't like you.
Re:Sounds like a great way to protect the status q (Score:4, Interesting)
It's definetely impacted by the seniority system that permeates the country. If you're old, you have a say, if you're young, you do what you're told. Obviously this is not a hard rule, but there definetely is such a trend. The standard view is that such a system would encouage some serious corruption (having a real and powerful organizations of organized crime does not help, they assasinated a difficult major during the last election).
I can't say I understand the Japanese democratic systems. I'm sure it protects the status quo, will probably change, though will change very slowly as the next 2 generations grow up. The system works somehow, and people still have to option to change things if they get completely out of hand.
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