More States Rebel Against Real ID Act 295
Spamicles writes with a link to a Lawbean post about more rebellion against the Real ID act. New Hampshire and Oklahoma have joined Montana and Washington state in passing statutes refuting the ID act's guidelines. "However, these actions could eventually lead to drivers licenses issued in these states to not be accepted as official identification when boarding airplanes or accessing federal buildings. In addition to these four states, members of the Idaho legislature intentionally left out money in the budget to comply with the Act."
Airlines (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Big deal. (Score:3, Informative)
Also, this is a lot more about money. States do not want to foot the bill for a government project. If the feds really wanted "National ID cards", then they should setup the infrastructure and absorb the costs to do it; unfortunately, they do not know how and it would be a disaster, just look at the time it takes to get a passport.
Re:Big deal. (Score:4, Informative)
Because they are intended for use with foreign entities. Passports are not a required form of ID to have in the US, only if you wish to travel outside the US.
License plates across the states are the same, and DON'T carry a different format such as european plates.
Again, no they are not!
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_license _plates_in_the_United_States) "For example, the small states Delaware and Rhode Island are able to use formats of 123456 and 123-456, respectively, while California uses the seven-character format 1ABC234, and several other populous states use the seven-character ABC-1234 format." and "In some states, information such as county of registration or month of expiration is incorporated into the number. The last number on a Massachusetts license plates indicates the month the bearer's registration expires (1234 AB would expire in April, the fourth month; zero is used for October expirations"
As far as illegal immigrants go, they can still get ID's locally and not be tracked throughout the nation, only locally if THAT. They can also board planes after that point.
Right because our real problem with illegal immigrants is that they fly!
Pick apart everything I say because of your beliefs on fighting the man.
Has nothing to do with an innate distrust of authority but thanks for bringing your straw man to the chat, he might make for better conversation than you are.
Having a unified set of ID's, just like the military, is not a bad idea.
Never said it was a bad idea I said it was unconstitutional. We dont jsut do things because they are, at the time, a good idea. I also said granting power to those who in the future might abuse it is not a good idea either. That the kind of thinking that lets you elist in the military at 18 but not celebrate it with a drink until you're 21.
Re:Big deal. (Score:3, Informative)
Yes that would be why states don't issue green cards. How does that contradict what I said?
"Congress has the right to establish laws concerning national standards for ID cards as it would be a means of identifying citizens, immigrants, and aliens, both legal and illegal, which falls under laws concerning naturalizations (USCONS Art1 Sec 8 Para 4)."
Identify Citizens (Passport), Immigrants (Green Cards), and this license scheme is aimed at citizens not aliens.
Perhaps you should learn the Constitution before trying to interpret it.
Perhaps you should RTA and my opinion before trying to garner what I think about national ID. We have one and its called a passport what section 8 does not say is that the id can be compulsory that is for the courts to decide and it certainly has nothing to do with making states format their ID to match the federal standards.
Passport != National ID (Score:3, Informative)
By the Constitution, nobody is required to produce ANY paperwork (IDs included) for the feds unless a judge specifically says a specific person has to under specific conditions. "Real ID" grossly violates the Constitution.
Re:And states do it to municipalities (Score:5, Informative)
Unfunded mandates is the natural effect of Congress' abuse of its Spending Power. Once upon a time, Congress' power to spend was limited to spending necessary to fund its other enumerated powers. Somewhere in time (1930s?), Congress began to expand its realm and the Courts acquiessed.
Now, it is generally believed that Congress can legislate anything provided it allocates funding first (barring some Amendment violation). So, for a while Congress started funding all sorts of crazy things so it could enact laws beyond its enumerated reach. Eventually, Congress' ability to legislate overreached its ability to fund. Thus, Unfunded Mandates.
What is needed is a concerted challenge in SCOTUS to return Congress to its legitimate role of legislating within its enumerated powers, and spending within those powers.
The net effect is lower federal taxes.
State legislatures, conversely, have no enumerated power limitations (in the U.S. Const. anyway). So, they can legislate all the social programs, etc. you want. Local officials locally responsible.
Perhaps Congress could legitimately advocate for certain policies (e.g. Real ID), but it could not use money or the scent of money to enforce it. States have successfully legislated uniform reforms (Uniform Commercial Code, for example); but this is not absolute uniformity. The proper answer is State actions to make things uniform, not Congress imposing beyond its legitimate reach.
Re:Good! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What it boils down to (Score:2, Informative)
WHEREAS, Real ID would provide little security benefit and
still leave identification systems open to insider fraud,
counterfeit documentation, and database failures; therefore,
be it
RESOLVED, BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE
NINETY-FIFTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, THE
SENATE CONCURRING HEREIN, that the Illinois General Assembly
supports the government of the United States in its campaign
against terrorism and affirms the commitment of the United
States that the campaign not be waged at the expense of
essential civil rights and liberties of citizens of this
country that are protected in the United States Constitution
and the Bill of Rights; and be it further
RESOLVED, That the members of the Illinois General Assembly
oppose any portion of the Real ID Act that violates the rights
and liberties guaranteed under the Illinois Constitution or the
United States Constitution, including the Bill of Rights; and
be it further
RESOLVED, That the Illinois General Assembly urges the
Illinois Congressional delegation in the United States
HJ0027 - 6 - LRB095 11206 DRH 31743 r
Congress to support measures to repeal the Real ID Act of 2005;
and be it further
RESOLVED, That a copy of this resolution be delivered to
President George W. Bush, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales,
Governor Rod R. Blagojevich, Senator Richard Durbin, Senator
Barack Obama, and each of the members of the Illinois
Congressional delegation.
Now that is from the very end of this document [ilga.gov]. There appears to be more from this search [ilga.gov], and I am going to try to look through these before I leave for work.
Note: I had to remove the item line numbers to get past the lameness filter.
Re:What it boils down to (Score:5, Informative)
But all that is missing the point; it's not to say that NH is already "free"; if it were, there'd be no point in a Free State Project, now, would there? The point is that the structure of government here is amazing open and accessible, and the culture is already liberty-oriented.
If you'd like some details about why NH was a good choice as the target state, I suggest you read this PDF [lpnh.org].
Re:Oklahoma (Score:2, Informative)
In addition to the fingerprint, the digital photo that is taken is run through facial recognition software - your photo is initially captured by a driver examiner when you take your driving test or apply for an ID, and then again at the Tag Agency where you actually receive your license / ID. The two photos are compared by the software, and the license is issued if there is a high match percentage (I don't know the actual number).
(As an aside, this has virtually eliminated 'valid' fake ID's being issued, in the case of one person going and applying for an ID or DL, testing for it and being approved, and then giving someone else the verification document to take to a tag agent.)
The state used to require two forms of ID to replace or renew a DL / ID; with this new system, your fingerprint and your photo fulfill that requirement and verify your identity without requiring any additional documentation.
The barcodes on the license only contain the information that is actually on the front of the license - There is a standard barcode that contains the DL number and Date of Birth (if I recall correctly), as well as a '2d' barcode containing all the information (address, organ donor, etc).
Re:What it boils down to (Score:1, Informative)
I spent 3 or 4 minutes trying to get them to search me instead of providing ID. How long does it take? Is there a magic word I need to know? Do I need some special pixie dust? Jedi mind tricks?
Really, I used to like flying. But I refuse to do so under the new "security" regulations. I used to like the train, too, but apparently they're similar these days. If I knew a way to get the TSA to follow the law, I might fly again.