US Senators Question Indian Firms Over H-1Bs

xzvf sends us a link to a BusinessWeek report on the campaign of two US senators to get answers to how H-1B work visas are actually being used. Yesterday Senators Chuck Grassley (R-IA) and Richard Durbin (D-IL) sent a letter (PDF) to nine Indian outsourcing firms that, among them, snapped up 30% of the H-1B visas issued last year. The senators want to know, among other things, whether the H-1B program is being used to enable the offshoring of American jobs. "Critics say outsourcing firms, including Infosys Technologies and Wipro, are using the visas to replace US employees with foreign workers, often cycling overseas staff through US training programs before sending them back into jobs at home."

Nice and needed enquiry

[Brad_sk]

I am an Indian citizen and I absolutely support this inquiry. The companies mentioned here (WIPRO, Infosys, TCS etc) definitely exploit H1b. They apply H1b for their employees assuming they MAY have to send them to US and not based on existing work, at least thats how its is for around 2/3 of their cases. Also, these companies treat sending their employees to US (client base) as an incentive and send only 1 or 2 person in a group and rotate them so as to give a "chance" to all. But since H1b is not transferable, they would have applied for H1b for everyone in the group at the beginning of H1b fiscal year. Every WIPRO/Infosys employee knows this - Just ask around to validate

I really wish there was a limit of how many H1bs these companies can get...

The US is the big loser in this abuse

[Opportunist]

Aside of the abuse to create cheap offshoring opportunities that hurt both, the US population and the US taxes, this creates a problem: H1Bs ain't a goodwill thing of the US, "generously" granting people from other countries the opportunity to live in the US. H1Bs are first and foremost to enable companies to hire good, qualified people from abroad. No company would go through the hassle of an H1B app to get a new janitor. What they try to hire is simply someone with a qualification or experience that you can't find in the US, or at the very least, not in enough quantity.

In other words, by leeching those H1Bs from the pool, those companies harm the US economy by creating a shortage of qualified workers. And I do see this as grounds for investigation and, if they're guilty of such a practice, applicable fines and punishments.

This is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

It is well-known in the H-1B holder circle that, some of the ICC (Indian Consulting Companies) might have cheated and applied for H-1B visas when they do not yet have actual foreign employees to hold those visas. That contributes significantly to the fact that H1-B visas run out so fast every year. I certainly hope the Senators' investigation would turn up something, and those cheating companies receive appropriate punishment.

It's a very real problem in the business world.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is his post marked "Troll"? He's talking about a very serious problem. It doesn't matter who these people are, where they're from, or what they look like. The basic truth is that it's damn near impossible to communicate with these people. And when they're in a job that requires a high degree of communication, we will have nothing but problems! It's especially bothersome when I'm paying a North American company damn good money for tech support, only to have them shuttle my problems off to somebody who my technicians can't even communicate with. I'd deal with some other company, except they all seem to use workers who can't speak English worth a damn.

Re:Yes...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and they are certainly not paid lower than their American counterparts.

WRONG! Sorry to bust your bubble, but this has been studied. H1-B's average less than their American counter parts. You can't pull that one off here Buckwheat!

Have you been through an MBA program lately? Well along with my 15 years of engineering experience and my BS EE and MS CS, I earned my MBA 3 years ago. We studied these sorts of things. The use of H-1B's and offshoring were stressed as a means to bring down laybor costs (not just in tech, but in health care, accounting, etc).

And as a manager I can tell you that upper management EXPECTS us to lower costs using these "tools".

happy this is happenning

[thinkingpen]

I worked at one of these firms in India before. The common practice there is to file for a H-1B visa in anticipation of future onsite trips. Many hundreds go unused. A number of my collegues got their visas stamped, but never travelled. Some were never intended to be used at all. The project manager told me they are just a backup in case of emergency situations (e.g., an onsite contractor might have to go back to India within short notice etc.) I think this is the main reason behind the recent inflation in number of H1-B applicants. This is certainly abuse of the H1-B program!

These companies should not be granted so many visas. If you want to increase competitiveness grant more visas to foreign students from top universities in the US. Giving out visas to these companies will only get you mediocre people who know nothing about computer science (yeah well, they know a lot about time sheets, status reports and how not to manage a team) - ofcourse there will be exceptions, but the largely the crowd that comes here aren't any super skilled programmers. They would just know a bit of their client's business and a few programs in some subsystem that is written in COBOL.

I am happy to have left that sweat shop in pursuit of my masters degree a couple of years ago. Never wanna go back to them! they do not do anything related to computer science there! it's all plain business. You are not allowed to fix ugly code if you feel like it - the client should be ready to pay for that too !! no smart ideas here please .. every solution to every possible problem is documented (hey we're a CMM level 5 company!) and no process that wassn't used before should ever be encouraged.

Trust me, tis nothing like cutting edge. Far from it. I laugh when Bangalore is called the silicon valley of the East!

What about L-1B?

[Dillenger69]

I've lost more jobs to L-1B visa workers over the years than I have H-1B.
L-1B workers are paid far lower wages even though they are doing the same work as their H-1B counterparts.
To my knowledge there is also no cap on the number of L-1B visas like there is on H-1B.

Personally, I don't really worry about it either way. I survived before IT, I've survived a few outsourcing layoffs, and I'll survive if IT completely goes away.

Re:Yes...

[penrodyn]

I'm on a H1-B and I can guarantee that I am not paid less than my peers.

Re:I'm amazed no one's said it yet

[PeeAitchPee]

declining job market like computer engineering

Sorry, are you on crack?

However, the best opportunities await those who studied engineering, computer programming . . . [centralval...stimes.com]

AeA Announces Job Growth Despite Decline In U.S. Competitiveness [elecdesign.com]

Better hunting, bigger salaries greet graduates [denverpost.com]

You might want to do a quick Google News search [google.com] before posting a bunch of unsupportable crap next time . . . just a thought.

Re:Yes...

[vijayiyer]

And then you get none of the foreign investment that allows you to continue the American lifestyle. Freezing assets because you don't like something is thuggish at best.

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Companies are required to pay more than prevailing wages as defined by department of labor and that is generally much lower than the actual pay scale in market. Employers can pay more than prevailing wages and still hire H1B Candidates. May be ask Department of Labor to keep up to date Salary Statistics :)

And yes, H1B Candidates are paid more than prevailing wages not necessarily more than market.

Re:Yes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats weird ... I am on an H1-B, I am getting paid $105,000 per annum. None of my friends get paid less than $90,000 as a base salary. Not that we mind it! In fact I think its pretty low.

Re:Why this years visas were filled in one day

[Axe]

There were 190,000 visas issued in each of the years 2001, 2002, 2003, before the limit went back down to 65,000. THIS is the single reason why all of the H1-B visas were used up in one single day.

Actually it was 130,700 in 2001, 79,100 in 2002 and 105,314 in 2003. But do not let poor facts get in the way of a good argument.

More interesting fact is that 50% goes to Indians, and 30+% to the Indian body shops. Put a nationality limit of 7% per country, and outlaw contracting on H1B, and most of the problems will be solved.

Re:There is truth in this

[freedom_india]

There is NO 2 year degree course in India.
There is a 3-year bachelor's degree course and a 2-year masters degree.
Apart from that there is a 4-year engineering degree.

Re:happy this is happenning

[Shashvat]

- Introduce a new visa category for short term (1-2 months) business visits that you can get on short notice. This will make InfoSys happy.

There is such a visa. Its a called a B1 - Business visa. You get it in 5 days and can spend up to 3 months in the USA for a business trip. It doesn't allow you to work or get paid an American salary. Its not new and is commonly used, not only by IT companies, but also by banks, manufacturers, management consulting companies - in short, any company that does business with America.

- Make only US companies eligible for H1-B's so Microsoft or Google can get their skilled programmers.

Yes, something like these companies - INFY [google.com] and WIT [google.com]

Re:How about...

[aztracker1]

I'd be more inclined to agree with this as a floor... an $80K floor for an educated employee in a field where there is "demand" should be an easy fill. Many experienced IT workers make that much, same with doctors, and other medical staff (nurses make less), but hey, if there is *REALLY* such a high demand, it isn't that high of a salary.

Re:Yes...

[penrodyn]

Academia

Re:Yes...

[Billly Gates]

Alot of newer MBAs do not consider I.T. workers capital.

Instead they view IT workers as cost centers. Accountants write their salary in red as a loss since I.T. does not make anything and brings 0 value. But something like Sales can be written as capital as they can show they bring money in for example.

Of course that is BS but alot of new MBA graduates whose professors spewed this crap when the .com boom collapsed, are now bringing this philosphy into practice. They view outsourcing as a way to slash red ink of the cost center in labor rather than selling capital. Wow, that sounds alot better to the CEO and CFO doesn't it?

Re:Yes...

[ticklish2day]

Let's make this a survey. I'm the highest paid software architect at my work place. And the lowest paid person here makes over six figures.

Re:The US is the big loser in this abuse

[Opportunist]

It actually boils down to companies wanting programmers with at least 10 years of professional experience, not over 25 and at a max wage of 2000 bucks.

Re:I like maddox's take on this.

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't HARD to come here legally.

Sure, it's easy, as long as you're just here on vacation. If you want to stay long-term, it's damn near impossible and it's expensive -- you'll likely need hired help to navigagte the bureaucracy. You'll wait several years, living on a work visa before you even have a chance at getting a green card. Once you've got that, then you can get a driver's license, social security card, etc. And your family can finally come join you (that's right, it's been just you, they've been waiting back in the old country).