Proposed Legislation Is Mooninite Fallout

theantipop writes "Ars Technica has a story about the Terrorist Hoax Improvements Act, a bill introduced recently by the Senate. The bill aims to 'amend the federal criminal code to include a number of new clauses meant to up the ante on wasting government resources. The amendments include extensions to the prohibitions on the spread of false information and mailing threats, increases to maximum prison terms, and allowances for civil suits so that local and federal governments can attempt to recoup expenses related to an incident.' This is undoubtedly a reaction to the Great Mooninite Scare of 2007."

Eh?

[gstoddart]

The amendments include extensions to the prohibitions on the spread of false information and mailing threats, increases to maximum prison terms, and allowances for civil suits so that local and federal governments can attempt to recoup expenses related to an incident.

Wait a minute here. How the hell can the government enter into civil suits?

These are suits which are outside of the usual prosecutorial parts of the justice system -- ie civilian.

They can pass a law to make it a crime, but I can't imagine the badness of the precedent of governments being able to take civil action. Take criminal action, or bugger off. You can't really ask to do both.

Does this even have a valid basis in law?

Cheers

won't happen

[MooseTick]

This will never happen. It would open the door for the government to artificially get excited about any action someone does and then declare it a "terrorist act". Some may say they would only go after reasonable "hoaxes", but all the ATHF people did was hang some light brites in public places. There was no signage or any other indicator that the things were terrorist related or even dangerous.

Spread of false information?

[drinkypoo]

The amendments include extensions to the prohibitions on the spread of false information

did not RTFA, but the government is the single largest distributor of false information around...

everything from telling us that reducing your cholesterol intake will lower your risk of heart disease (false) to telling us there were WMDs in Iraq.

seems like they're going to need a "no tag backs" clause in this one.

Report everything!

[myowntrueself]

The best thing that people could do is to start reporting every single unattended piece of garbage, shopping trolly, paper bag, cardboard box, tin can etc to the authorities as a 'suspect device'.

Something along the lines of: "You wanted to be notified of any suspicious devices or activities? Well theres a paper bag lying on the ground here at (insert location) and noone seems to know anything about it. Its big enough to hold a few sticks of dynamite or something. Just being a good citizen, sir!".

If the 'authorities' want to take *obvious* stuff like the mooninites publicity stunt *that* seriously then let them try to apply the same level of serious for any notification of 'suspect objects'.

The problem of stupid overreaction on the part of the 'authorities' will go away very very quickly.

Boston

[normuser]

The amendments include extensions to the prohibitions on the spread of false information and mailing threats, increases to maximum prison terms, and allowances for civil suits so that local and federal governments can attempt to recoup expenses related to an incident.'

Um, wasnt the boston government the ones "spreading false information" and making bomb threats?

Re:Watch out for DHMO

[eln]

Making the government look like a bunch of idiots is my God-given right as an American. If people can't let off steam by making fun of the government, they might actually get angry enough to do something more serious to the government.

Re:Thus, ever higher

[anagama]

When we get to that point, expect all out lawlessness to ensue. If jay walking will get you a few years, you might as well do a real crime. And when minor crimes take most of your life, WTF, might as well go out big.

Increasingly draconian sententencing is rather counter-productive in the sense that it may help increase the severity of crimes performed, or the desperation of those close to being nabbed.

Re:Two sides to every story

[amRadioHed]

but does anyone have a better idea to deter and punish some wacko?

Yes, don't give the wacko's the attention they want. The media are at least as guilty as the government in turning the ATHF signs into the spectacle it was. The fact that the destruction of the toys by the bomb squad got live coverage on CNN is exactly the sort of thing which will server as inspiration for future hoax's.

Re:Spread of false information?

[adrianbaugh]

Bloody hell! It really isn't difficult. If you want to lose weight, eat less. The choice shouldn't be between a high fat / low carb diet or a high carb / low fat diet, but between overeating or eating the right amount. The word "diet" shouldn't even be necessary were it not for the fact that we are constantly in the crossfire of a propaganda war between the junk foodists and the diet peddlers. Those advocating the sensible middle ground, of eating as much as you need and listening to what your body craves, tend to have little funding for advertising and are consequently given a damn good ignoring.

Re:Thus, ever higher

[dykofone]

Outstanding point, and reminds me of being 16 when a friend and I tried to buy paintballs. Not paintball guns, just the paintballs. We were instructed by the clerk at checkout that we must be 18 to purchase paintballs, and had to show ID. We left, rather disappointed, and had a chat about it in the parking lot. We realized that "it's illegal for us to buy them, and it's illegal for us to steal them," so, naturally, we chose the option that would get us our damn paintballs.

We had to break the law to get our paintballs, and we had to chose the option that was not only illegal, but highly immoral. It's certainly sophomoric logic, but I'm pretty sure it's the type of logic that would prevail in an over-lawed state.

Re:A story from the military

[RingDev]

My memory has faded a bit since that happened, but I think he got 10 years in a prison up on the mainland. And Japanesse prisons are significantly less pleasant than the Brig from what I hear.

He was hardly an isolated incident unfortunately. The list of horrendous acts drunken members of the military have done in Okinawa is rather staggering. It was with good reason that the protesters were at our gates.

-Rick

Re:A story from the military

[AmiAthena]

I remember reading a similar story; possbily in Reader's Digest, a very long time ago. One day, a mysterious package was found on the General's porch. One bomb squad and a few hours later, the box was found to contain silk pajamas. I assume all involved parties thought this was pretty swell.
On the one hand, it's always good news that that wasn't a bomb on your doorstep. On the other hand, aside from the time and money wasted, that particular General probably got a few new fun nicknames.

Nation of Cowards

[straponego]

Snivelling cowards. That is what the USA has become. At least, that majority of it which supports this kind of law, this false sense of security.

So, let me get this straight, betwetters. Every time I experience an object, sound, or symbol I don't recognize, or one which reminds me of something that could be used to inflict harm, somebody should go to jail?

If you want your safety guaranteed to an arbitrary degree, well, I guess we'll have the brain in a vat plan available fairly soon. And before that, you're welcome to check yourself into total a surveillance camp. For the rest of us, a little common sense and a modicum of dignity will just have to get us by.

Seriously, the best way, long term, to get people to make rational decisions throughout the day would be early exposure, in school, to elementary logic, statistics, and game theory. As important as pure math is, I think that this should be a separate set of classes, because... well, it'll be easier to market it if you tie it to real life. Here are a couple books I think should be required reading in high school:

Innumeracy [amazon.com]

Prisoner's Dilemma [amazon.com]

Re:Great Advertising

[Fred Ferrigno]

Considering this got more press than most Superbowl advertisements it seems like the return on investment was pretty solid.

You would think that, but practically no one went to see it. It was in 877 theaters for two weeks, half that the third week and it's all but gone from theaters now. But thanks to the movie's low production cost ($750k), the movie still managed to make a profit, bringing in about $5 million to date. The $2 million settlement therefore cut their profit margin in half, so I doubt anyone thinks it was "worth it". The story may yet change, as I'm sure the real target for the movie all along was in DVD sales.

Box office details. [boxofficemojo.com]