Turkish Assembly Votes For Censoring of Web Sites 247
unity100 writes "CNN has some news about a recent development in Turkey where the Turkish assembly, totally out of line with Turkey's commitment to EU membership, has voted to have sites that 'insult to the founder of modern Turkey' censored from entire Turkish population. This, just about a month after the decision to censor YouTube was reached by the Turkish courts. 'On Thursday, lawmakers in the commission also debated whether the proposal should be widened to allow the Turkish Telecommunications Board to block access to any sites that question the principles of the Turkish secular system or the unity of the Turkish state -- a reference to Web sites with information on Kurdish rebels in Turkey.'"
Censorship works, and speaking of Holocausts... (Score:5, Informative)
The Turkish government really, really doesn't want to talk about this. Bring it up too forcefully in Turkey and it can get you killed [wikipedia.org]. So the subject is censored in Turkey, effectively enough that most of today's generation of Turks just can't believe that their great grandparents could have done anything so vile. I'd imagine that today's generation of Germans would have the same reaction if Germany hadn't been forced to face up to what the National Socialist German Workers Party did.
PBS did a pretty impressive special on the subject, available on DVD [shoppbs.org].
So... it's likely that the Turkish government will keep on censoring away. It's not like anyone's going to do anything effective about it. Sure, eventually they'll figure out that censoring the 'net is a fool's errand, but they'll kick that can down the road as long as they can. And even then, will enough Turkish citizens care enough to look?
Have you been? (Score:1, Informative)
I understand your frustration with Turkey, but you can't change facts amigo.
Re:i loe and support all terrorist (Score:3, Informative)
Re:i loe and support all terrorist (Score:2, Informative)
It isn't exactly the most popular sentiment but there are plenty of people in the US who express exactly those ideas. The solution isn't to shut them up because that just makes it look like their idea of the "truth" is being hidden from the public. The solution is to debate them and thoroughly debunk them to prove them for the fools they are. Check out Ward Churchill and Amiri Baraka for two prominent examples.
none of our business (Score:4, Informative)
Well (and that's an example, no country is a saint in this matter), the USA have been preaching on freedom and human rights for decades. It didn't prevent them to install and maintain bloody dictatorships in South America. And that, way before the USA "turned evil" and bashing the US became an olympic sport.
I do not think we (well, the West) have any right at all to interfere in Turkey or any other country.
Personally I don't think Turkey belongs to EU, and that's a matter for EU and Turkey, and no one else.
The rest, the internal Turkey matters as long as they stay out of EU, are their business and we have no right to mess with.
Re:I'd like to see a study (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Turkey is the pinnacle of Islam. (Score:2, Informative)
A very strong statement I have to say. Turkey is a country which is undergoing a lot of changes the last few years. It is torn between the Islamic fundamentalists and the military and its followers which follow the dream Mustafa Kemal Atatürk for a European Turkey. Turkey is also a 100 million people market which means that Europe needs its market. Washington pushes for Turkey to enter the European Union, firstly because they realise that if it happens, the dream of the European Union wont have much hope of being realised any time soon, as the millions of Turks that will spread through out Europe will push Europe centuries back dividing it. This means that Washington does not need to worry about the European Union becoming a super power any time soon. Of course let us not forget that Washington and Turkey no longer have the good relationships they used to have as Turkey denied U.S. soldiers to be based there in 2003 during the Iraq war. Hence the whole talk about the U.S. recognising the Armenian genocide. Also have in mind that Washington's bad foreign policy during the last few years, and its failed war against Iraq and terrorism have divided it as well, and unlike his father's presidency, the current president and his crew have failed to show the appropriate wisdom and responsibility which means the Washington's unity is not as it used to be and the foreign policy should be expected to change in the near future. As for Angela Merkel's stand, although not sure what it is, but as Germany has a big problem with the Turkish population there and the ghettos of Turks in Germany, I guess it is not because she cares about Europe and culture et cetera but about her country, which isn't necessarily wrong though.
Putting the above aside, Turkey is not a country that has anything to offer to Europe apart from a big market. It is a country in a state of chaos, with the military maintaining order, and with out the military's presence, it might even become a possible danger to European countries in the near future, if ruled by Islamic fundamentalists. With The military regime bringing it closer to Europe and not the ideas and values of the people, most of whom are poor and uneducated, we can see that Turkey is neither a traditional Islamic country, neither a European state, but it is surely a country closer to the first than to the second. This is no big secret as even the class of educated people in Turkey realise the need of the army's presence in Turkey, as well as a lot of people outside Turkey.
Is a country which is fundamentally so different ready to enter a union of countries which promote ideas that are not even accepted by the Turkish people. Having ruins of ancient Greeks and the Roman-Byzantine empire does not make you part of the history of Europe it self. It is how you think and what you do in your every day life that does. Even those ruins were not respected till they discovered that not only could they sell them but they could be used to attract tourists. And I do not blame them as the state in which they live is one of a third world country.
The army is a necessity in Turkey at the time being as it is going through all these changes and until it settles in a stable state where Europe will be able to decide whether Turkey is a country that may fully enter the European union. That does not mean the European Union should stop all relationships with Turkey. Although Turkey can not be seen as a reliable ally, it is a bridge between Europe and the Islamic world, Europe needs it as a means to maintain good relationships with the Islamic world. It is a market of 100 million people, and a country developing. It is a country the European union needs to maintain good relationships with and a good economic partnership but as things are, the relationship should stay at that level alone. The gates of Europe are not ready to be opened to Turkey any more than this.
Censoring is a tactic followed by many states which aim to control their people. Censoring in the
Let me enlighten you with a turkish saying (Score:4, Informative)
i AM turkish. i am living in turkey for my whole life. i KNOW what it is like here.
there no such thing as "east meets west" exist. it was invented by government in order to make tourism advertisements abroad, and also put turkey's cause forward in european union application back in 1986-1987. Turgut Ozal, was the prime minister then.
again, there is no such thing, and in istanbul east meets east. nobody but the turkish believe in such a thing that "east meets west" exists. its just a hype make-believe.
A little info on demographics of Turkish politics (Score:3, Informative)
rest are divided among major groups like kemalists (ataturk nationalists), west supporters, (liberals, which generally have many stuff in common with kemalists, except in nationalistic matters like ataturk is a taboo or not, and freedom of speech related to that issue), a good deal of social democrats (which generally are almost transient with kemalists, since most of ataturk's proposed ideas and guidelines curiously coincides with social democracy, and the party he founded, chp, is a social democrat party for over around, say 70 or so years), extreme nationalists, which are basically right wing radicals, which are very considerable in numbers, but not on majority over any of the above groups.
the biggest groups are named "undecideds" in turkey.
these are people of mild composition, they dont want to mess with anybody or anything, want matters to be good and life normal, no crises, no stampede, economy in rails etc and such. they are generally approving of european values, becuse of humanitarian approaches (we are not talking about stupid extreme left wing idiots here, were talking Danton, Erasmus, Voltaire, Rousseau humanism & liberalism - though this population rarely knows these writers's names), quality of life in europe in particular. (thinking that europeans must be doing some things right). and they want in in european union, nomatter who says what. extreme right wing nationalists, islamic groups, and even portion of the kemalists who are disullisioned with europe and dont want to get into euo anymore dont even add up to the number of this "silent crowd".
these "undecideds", ironically, are the people whose votes decide who gets in power at any given time.
in the last elections, they were extremely disillusioned by the corruption earlier parties and governments exhibited, and some were impressed with the seemingly considerable work that was done by the people in municipial duties (who founded the akp later, and tayyip erdogan, current pm was the mayor of istanbul, islamic), so they said exactly like this; "lets try those islamists this time".
this was a sentence which was actually said by those people in debates, among family, friends and such.
and they voted for them. and voila, 38% votes for islamic party, and thanks to the election system that twists the votes SO absurd, they get 95% of the chairs in the assembly.
curiously, islamists also want to get into the eu. many fragments of islamic community thinks that it will be much too easier to spread islamic influence when turkey is in eu. and they are right, from what we see from the proceedings of a minority islamic population is able to succeed in netherlands, even in this state.
hence when in power, islamic party (akp) have pushed for eu reforms with unseen vigor in any prior government. and passed many laws to eu guidelines. as in all matters that comes too fast, too low a number of these laws are actually being practiced.
ah, i forgot one segment. that is the military.
it is a MAJOR segment of the population. in that it holds armed power, and also in that there are explicit items in constitution that ordains the army "guardianship of secular democratic regime".
and for the last 80 years, they have been EXACTLY doing that.
back around 1960, an islamically inclined prime minister, Adnan Menderes, and his then center-right and extreme-right composured party (demokrat parti, which is curiously the party that the roots and many members of the akp or other right/islamically inclined parties come from), have gone rather awkward, started censoring the media in the wake of increasing critisizm for failure, BANNE