Voters Vote Yes, County Says No 645
Khyber writes in with a story from Montana, where residents of Missoula County voted in a referendum intended to advise county law-enforcement types to treat marijuana offenses as low-profile. The referendum would not have changed any laws, but was advisory only. After voters approved it, county commissioners overturned it by a 2-to-1 vote. They were swayed by the argument of the county attorney, who had a "gut feeling" that Missoula's electorate had misinterpreted the ballot language. The move has resulted in a flood of disaffection among voters, especially young voters. "Is there even a point to voting any more if the will of the people can so easily be subverted by two people?" one voter posted on a comment blog.
Re:Link? (Score:3, Informative)
As a former Missoulian, I can absolutely guarantee the officials that the people of Missoula did NOT misinterpret the language on the ballot :)
It's not like there is really there much else to do in Montana, anyway.
Here's a link (Score:5, Informative)
I found this story [newwest.net] doing a Google search. From TFA:
The tone of the hearing shifted when Van Valkenburg said that he had proposed the amendments because of a "gut feeling" that Missoula voters were not "detail-oriented" enough to understand the complete scope of the initiative.
I think the only ones who failed the "detail-oriented" test are the slashdot editors who posted a story that references an article and a blog but failed to provide any links.
GMD
Re:Short answer: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:WTF No Link?? (Score:3, Informative)
A Google News search revealed this story [newwest.net] which elaborates on the details in the article summary.
Some articles (Score:5, Informative)
There was no link in the story, so here's some that seem to be relevant.
An article [newwest.net]
relevant Google news search [google.com]
Link (Score:5, Informative)
Man -- and I thought *I* was lazy. But too lazy to Google it? Wow.
I was there (Score:5, Informative)
The county prosecutor opened the meeting by telling us that we did not understand the initiative, to which many of us, myself included, assured him that we read the initiative in its entirety, and did understand it. When everybody was done speaking, he came back up and told us that he disagreed with us, and that we still did not understand the initiative. In addition, he showed us a map showing how the votes were distributed, and told us that since most of the votes were centered around the "metropolitan" area of Missoula, and not so much in the surrounding areas of the county, that it was not fair to voters to have this initiative.
I really enjoy living in Missoula for a number of reasons, but the local government is not one of them.
For the record, I did vote, and will continue to, regardless of my opinion that voting is purely symbolic.
Links to the full story (Score:2, Informative)
Article [missoulian.com] in local paper.
The actual initiative [missoula.mt.us]
The current story [missoulian.com].
You're welcome.
Link to article and text of measure (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.co.missoula.mt.us/Election/Marijuana_I
Article
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/03/24/new
huh? (Score:3, Informative)
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? First, nobody told the voters they got to choose the law, they simply got to advise the council. If they're not happy with the way the council took their advice, next election they can replace the council.
State != feds. If a state has a law contradicting a federal law, the federal law overrules. By definition, the fed ignores state laws - it's not their job to enforce them, and federal laws take priority. This was a county level law. Corruption in one county (and I'm not saying this is a case of corruption) is hardly evidence of corruption on a state or federal level.
Same behavior new state (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Link? (Score:2, Informative)
It's Cannabis, not marijuana (Score:5, Informative)
There are also two other main strains, Industrial Hemp being one of them, but also another which i cannot remember the name of.
Re:Link? (Score:5, Informative)
Are you referring to the poster, or the slashdot editors?
http://www.kcfw.com/montana_news.php?id=01723a93ff e12ca09070c26c8713da13 [kcfw.com]
I hear that everyone else was going "like .... bummer, dude!"
Re:Here goes my karma, I guess (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Here goes my karma, I guess (Score:5, Informative)
I'd suggest that the only thing that "matters" for anyone keen on the subject is good music and lots of brownies.
The key to criminalisation was the way in which Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 [wikipedia.org] was written and passed.
To rephrase the above, if you wanted to deal in the stuff, you needed a tax stamp. Which required possession of the stuff. Which was
It's hardly surprising that in the decades since, the laws concerning cannabis are just as tortured and contradictory, especially when considered against the background of yet another new study that suggest alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous [guardian.co.uk]
That's why we have an Electoral College (Score:2, Informative)
From http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electora
"It is possible that an elector could ignore the results of the popular vote, but that occurs very rarely. Your vote helps decide which candidate receives your State's electoral votes."
Why do we have an Electoral College? Because back in the 1800's, it took too long to count the popular votes. In addition, from http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepoliticalsystem/
On the other hand, election by Congress would require the members to both accurately assess the desires of the people of their states and to actually vote accordingly. This could have led to elections that better reflected the opinions and political agendas of the members of Congress than the actual will of the people.
As a compromise, we have the Electoral College system."
Re:you are contradicting your own point (Score:2, Informative)
"For the record, I did vote, and will continue to, regardless of my opinion that voting is purely symbolic"
Looks like he voted to me.
Re:Well, welcome to a republic (Score:2, Informative)
In California, legislators and the governor must also be wary of a second democratic power: The power to recall any or all of them. When ex-governor Grey Davis pulled a stunt similar to the one described above, his term as governor was terminated abruptly.
So, what can you do about it if you live in a republic? You can move to a democracy, or you can only vote for people who promise to turn the republic into a democracy.
Re:huh? (Score:4, Informative)
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people."
Now, the federal government claims all rights and allows the people to obey... But it isn't just the federal government, Governor Rick Perry tried to mandate the HPV vaccine to Texan girls without proper legislation... It's only natural for county government to follow the examples set by the larger government bodies... Why listen to the people when don't want to?
We've dealt with [wikipedia.org] this same problem before. So did the French [wikipedia.org], and with a particularly nasty device [wikipedia.org].
Re:It's Cannabis, not marijuana (Score:2, Informative)
There are also hybrid strains.
Most of the 'stuff' you get on the street would consist mostly of indica since it's much easier to grow, flowers in a shorter period of time, grows much shorter (and thus is easier to grow indoors) and has much higher yields.
It's also worth noting that sativa produces a very thought-provoking "in the head" kind of psychedelic high while indica produces the "pothead" high where you feel glued to the couch.
The vast majority of marijuana strains out there that are grown and sold (in North America, or places where it's illegal anyway) are hybrids. It's very rare to get a 'pure sativa' or 'pure indica' strain unless you go somewhere where people grow and breed the stuff selectively and legally (the Netherlands etc.) But growers who do so illegally and for profit generally prefer strains that are mostly indica for the reasons stated above.
Of course many growers have absolutely no idea what they're growing since the seeds were pulled out of a bag bought on the street, or they got a cutting/clone from a fellow grower. But thanks to the Internet you can now order seeds from breeders who tell you what you're getting.
Assuming the seed banks are giving accurate information about what they're selling, you can have a look through their ordering catalogues and you'll see that strains that are pure indica or pure sativa are almost non-existant, though there are some that come close.
Search for "marijuana seed bank" on Google and you'll get tons of seed banks.
Re:Here goes my karma, I guess (Score:5, Informative)
It wasn't marijuana they wanted to get rid of though but hemp, by focusing on marijuana propaganda they got hemp production in the US stopped as well as imports of hemp. Similar tactics have been repeated many times. Hemp had many uses at the time, including the production of paper and cloth, in fact the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution are printed on paper made from hemp. Hemp would potentially be a great resource atm for replacing many hydrocarbon products currently used, so you can bet that the oil companies might join in any attempts to legalize hemp production. Hemp has a wide range of very good uses if you bother to research for them. Far too many to discuss here.
Marijuana prior to the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act had many medical uses and the American Medical Association opposed the passing of this act. This was mentioned by at least one other poster here but they didn't go in depth on it and neither will I for the purposes of this post other then to suggest everyone research a bit.
As I and others have stated here before, the only way we can change the current path of our government is to retake it from the current power structure from the local government on up. To do so requires the education of our fellow citizens and ourselves on what is really going on, on how it really should be and how to get it there. Therefore the events in some small town where the citizens have tried to reclaim their government (or some large city, or some other state) are of interest to us all, particularly when it involves governmental roadblocks to such repossession.
Will you ignore it when they come for those in Misoula, because your not from Misoula? (reference to the oft repeated quote) Btw, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were hemp farmers and Jefferson was a big advocate of its uses.
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Informative)
I can't say exactly how things work in Montana, but generally a "county attorney" is the guy who advises and represents the county commission on the legal effect of proposed ordinances, their constitutionality (or lack thereof), and sometimes represents the county in civil cases.
Usually, the person who prosecutes criminal cases--representing the state rather than the county--is called the "district attorney".
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Happens all the time (Score:3, Informative)
- 435 Representatives for roughly a million people.
- Pay for representatives is $100 per year.
- The legislature is very much part-time.
It's considered the most represented population at the state level in the US. When I was living there as a teenager I knew 4 state reps personally, including a guy who worked as an elevator operator. Say what you want about the area, it does have a government that represents its people.
Re:Here goes my karma, I guess (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkroOQT-84Q [youtube.com]
Lots of historical info in that video.
Shitdrummer.
Call or Write (Score:1, Informative)
(406) 258-4737
fvanvalk@co.missoula.mt.us
County Commissioners
(406) 258-4877
200 W. Broadway St, Missoula, MT 59802
Bill Carey
(406) 721-5008
644 Cleveland St, Missoula, MT 59801
Barbara Evans
(406) 543-1268
808 Whitaker Dr, Missoula, MT 59803
Re:It's Cannabis, not marijuana (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Why I don't vote (Score:3, Informative)
That means I'm free to use any argument I want to make up my mind, no matter how ignorant, stupid, or not your opinion it is.
If you want me to vote, you're going to have to pay me to do it, just like any other work.
Re:A similar thing happened in my town (Score:2, Informative)
Missoula County Commissioners' Office Contact (Score:5, Informative)
If every person posting in indignation where to say, express their thoughts directly to the Missoula County Commissioners' Office, who knows what could happen?
oops, whats this?
Missoula County
Board of County Commissioners
200 W. Broadway
Missoula, MT 59802
Main Office Telephone Number: 406-258-4877
COMMISSIONER: JEAN CURTISS
Contact Person: Jean Curtiss
Phone: 406-258-4877
Fax: 406-721-4043
Email: mailto:jcurtiss@co.missoula.mt.us [mailto] (or) bcc@co.missoula.mt.us
Location: Second Floor of Courthouse Annex Room 210
COMMISSIONER: BILL CAREY
Contact Person: Bill Carey
Phone: 406-258-4877
Fax: 406-721-4043
Email: mailto:bcarey@co.missoula.mt.us [mailto] (or) bcc@co.missoula.mt.us
Location: Second Floor of Courthouse Annex Room 210
COMMISSIONER: BARBARA EVANS
Phone: 406-258-4877
Fax: 406-721-4043
Email: mailto:bevans@co.missoula.mt.us [mailto] (or) bcc@co.missoula.mt.us
Location: Second Floor of Courthouse Annex Room 210
Parent is WILDLY inaccurate (Score:3, Informative)
In all three cases, the legislators threw the term limits out (which limit them to only a few terms). They refuse to leave, and have deemed the overwhelming majority vote of the people to be either caused by confusion reading ballets or just plain wrong.
That's flat-out incorrect. The Legislature didn't throw the term limits out, the courts did, as Nebraska's first two attempts at a term limit law also imposed term limits on federal representatives, something the State of Nebraska has no jurisdiction over. The third time, they limited it to state officials, and (SURPRISE!) the courts had no problems with it. I don't know how you can say that they "refused to leave" when every legislator who was term-limited out did indeed leave after the 2006 election.
Those changes you speak of only happened AFTER the final success of the term limit initiatives. Don't conflate to the two together to show evidence of some evil plot.
Re:Link? (Score:5, Informative)
Furthermore: (10 USC 311)
So, fine - the right of all able-bodied males between ages 17-45 to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Sounds good to me.
Re:Link? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Link? (Score:3, Informative)
"The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
b) The classes of the militia are--
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia."
So, everyone who is 17 to 45 are part of the militia of the United States of America per Federal Law and entitled to own and bare arms.
Re:Link? (Score:3, Informative)
You're entirely incorrect. The "milita" is the unorganized collection of armed citizens that were available to call up. Also, the 2nd amendment does apply to "normal citizens." Both of these errors in your position are addressed, exposed, debunked, and disposed of in the following March 9th, 2007 court decision:
Parker v. District of Columbia [uscourts.gov]
That's the actual decision, in PDF. Absolutely required reading for collective right theorists (which is where your ideas are found.) The court explains, very clearly, that the individual rights position is the valid one, and precisely why, including what is wrong with attempting to use the prefatory clause to qualify the operative clause.
you live in an ivory tower (Score:3, Informative)
unfortunately, how the human beings in your delightful experiment actually behave is different than you project. you want me to provide assertion for this. this is like asking me to prove to you that digestion results in shit: it should be your common knowledge already, such that if you don't know the fundamental aspects of the subject matter, then the issue is less that i will not prove it to you, and more that if you even have to ask for proof, it shows out of touch with reality you are, to ask such a foolish question
anarchy doesn't work. if you need to ask why, you're seriously deluded, and not worth the time explaining it to, because anyone who would need such explaining is already out of touch with simple rational persuasion
look, i'm certian you're a very positive, earnest little clueless fellow. why don't you write some more polemics, have some flamewars with some better adjusted folk, have a few brainstorming sessions with a few other deluded fools, and go squat in some abandoned building, or whatever gives you a hard on about your grand utopian scheming. you're not the first of your crackpot utopian kind, and you won't be the last
but i'm sorry, that you are so out of touch with essential human nature that you lack the fundamental understandings of why anarchy is pure hell, and you certainly are not worth the intellectual charity effort on my part to try to open your eyes to simple common sense and basic fundamental reality that a kindergartener could appreciate
good luck to you fruitcake. say it loud, say it proud, provide some entertainment for the us well-adjusted folk
xoxoxoxoxoxox
Re:Link? (Score:3, Informative)