Several readers let us know about a program in which a US FBI agent and employees of the MPAA led a seminar for Swedish police officers in methods of finding and stopping illegal downloading from the Internet. The writer at zeropaid.com says, "I bet the Swedish people are going to love to find out that the US government and a US lobbying group now have a hand in training their police personnel. So much for the notion of national sovereignty." Reader Oxygen provided a bit of translation from an article in Swedish on IDG.se: "According to Bertil Ramsell, responsible for the course, the purpose of the visit was to give the invited speakers a chance to explain to the students what their organization's purpose was. But in a report from the IIPA, the purpose was to educate students in anti-piracy."
I think it is time the people realise that the government is an instrument of the PEOPLE, they work for and represent the PEOPLE. I think alot of people have forgotten this.
The only people that took away your rights was yourselves.
I think it is time the people realise that the government is an instrument of the PEOPLE, they work for and represent the PEOPLE. I think alot of people have forgotten this.
The American government represents the American "people". But the question is, who are the American "people"? Sadly, the Supreme Court ruled in 1886 that a corporation is a person, with the same constitiutional rights as a human person. And as "people', corporations are immortal, incredibly wealthy, and exhibit psychopathic behavi
It's time the governments of the world feared the people.
Bad idea. Fear doesn't get people to do what you want.
Of course it does, just see how well it's working with all the nukes etc that the US has... asif they'd ever actually have to use their weapons to get things done, and if they'd ever invade a country everyone in that country will stop fighting and do as the US says... or... hmmm...
It's a good thing that guns are all but completely banned in Sweden (a few registered long guns for hunting are permitted), otherwise the government might have to face an armed revolt. One can only hope that my own government in the USA will someday have nothing to fear from the People as well.
As time goes on and power is consolidated in the world, smaller powers will find themselves increasingly strongly attached to the main power bloc with which they are affiliated. Thus European nations find themselves increasingly Americanized, Asia finds itself increasingly Sinicized, and the Islamic world finds itself increasingly dominated by relatively uniform fundamentalist thinking, as opposed to the diverse, relatively secular regional ideologies that prevailed in the last century.
Eventually, the three nations of Eurasia, Eastasia and Oceania will settle down into their near-endless cold war.
I thought the article was fairly interesting but this was just one troll of a comment. "I bet the Swedish people are going to love to find out that the US government and a US lobbying group now have a hand in training their police personnel. So much for the notion of national sovereignty."
There are United States military troops in Germany, Italy, South Korea, Japan, Colombia, the Phillipines, Indonesia, Kosovo, Egypt, Singapore, Thailand, the UK, Spain, Turkey, Portugal, Qatar, Bahrain, Cuba, etc. etc. etc. We run the Iraqi and Afghanistan governments. Training Swedish police is not a threat to national sovereignty, and if you dispute this, it still barely scrapes the iceberg. It's hysteria to complain that training foreign governments is intruding on their sovereignty if they request it.
We train police around the world, in almost all situations, our assistance is requested and welcomed. (by the governments, at least) If the wholly independent Swedish government and the people were opposed, there might be a case.
Complain about training them in bad DMCA-style law enforcement, or in RIAA-scare-tactics. Don't complain about a foreign country asking and receiving assistance.
All the bad press has been on it being MPA and IPFI, not on the FBI. FBI have been working with the swedish goverment for a long time. In both directions. The differece in the storied about MPA did at the scool from the MPA and the swedish police makes this an intersting story. That the other speaker at the conference was the swedish version of RIAA that have tried to use scare tactice already, doesn't make it better. The only problem with FBI is that they are talking together with MPA at this occation.
by Anonymous Coward
on Tuesday February 20 2007, @06:58AM (#18080070)
It isn't so much that it's the US government, as it is a private company training a foreign national police force to enforce their private agenda. The government is one thing, they could know something about enforcing law and protecting the peace. The MPAA aren't soldiers, they aren't police, and they aren't a neutral public institution. Their concerns isn't for the citizens. They're there solely to make sure their profits are safeguarded and that things will go exactly the way they want them to. They've essentially bought their way into law enforcement and there's something profoundly unsettling about that.
Apparently the RIAA is a full-fledged police force [slashdot.org], so I'm guessing the MPAA just wanted in on the "let's dress up like Hollywood SWAT team members and pretend to be police" action too.
Do you think American FBI agents are the only people in the world who knows how to catch file sharers? Or that there is so little technical know-how in Swedish organizations that we really need Americans to help us? It is not, Swedish cops are just as good at using computers as American cops are (if not better). Maybe they could use some help in improving their interrogation techniques, but they sure as hell do not bring Russian FSB agents over. The real reason why they invite the FBI has nothing to do with training.
What the big fuss is about, is that the Swedish police is tacitly agreeing that it will follow FBI:s and MPAA:s anti-piracy policies and do their dirty work for them. Which means do everything they can to shut down thepiratebay.
>>> Which means do everything they can to shut down thepiratebay
Firstly, I expect the FBI and MPAA will be tainted to train to American laws. Obviously the Unless copyright laws are aligned between the two countries we're likely to see the Swedish Police overstepping the mark, like they did when they confiscated TPB servers previously - didn't that turn out to be against local law (TPB was working within the law?).
didn't that turn out to be against local law (TPB was working within the law?).
That hasn't been determined yet. The police have imaged their servers, but refuse to give them back. They probably intend to keep them forever, maybe sell them to some criminals to make a tidy profit, as has been recently reported in local newspapers.
The case main prosecutor actually wrote in a PM six months before the raid that TPB was probably not doing anything illegal, or at least not doing something that they could prosecute. You can't prosecute someone for contributory copyright infringement witho
No, the Swedish police surely don't have any problems getting the expertise from other sources. My guess is that this is more to please the US corporate interests than actually training someone to go after pirates. Once the training is complete, all they need to do is some token efforts against piracy, then go back to catching kind of people the public really wants taken down.
Who is this 'we' you're talking about? Are you as an American citizen also a part of the industrial structures as the MPAA? Would you fight for the rights of the MPAA if they called you to do so? Are you not a patriot if you don't agree with what the MPAA tells you to do? It sounds like you should rethink your stance on who is running your beloved country.
Sidenote: The US militairy troops in e.g. Germany have no authority outside the borders of their camps, also not over the German military. Also, in many
Complain about training them in bad DMCA-style law enforcement, or in RIAA-scare-tactics. Don't complain about a foreign country asking and receiving assistance.
I doubt very highly, that the people of Sweden are in any way interested in copyright infringement law enforcement. Its lunacy to even be talking about it, copyright infringement is our countries way of trying to hold back the tide of an every increasing momentum of free expression. This isn't book and print. You put something out on the net or make it digital it no longer has any substance. It exists in the minds of the people that create it and experience it. Sharing ideas whether they originated with you are not is a natural part of how we express our selfs. Get over it, and move the fuck on.
I'm Swedish and I think like this: A) Copying IS NOT stealing. B) As long as the people that made the data that is being copied has a roof over their head and food to eat they can't complain too much. If they have more they should just STFU. C) A pirate is not bad if he does not use copied content to make money. Pirates that profit is however an issue to talk about. D) We live and die. If somebody copies a file in order to increase their life's value I say go ahead and let him. It's all about making people's li
You put something out on the net or make it digital it no longer has any substance.
In this respect, how is the Internet different than analog broadcast? I can't touch or hold any broadcast any more than I can touch or hold a digital stream.
The reasoning you have on sharing ideas seems pretty odd on a site whose constituents routinely say that the recording and movie industries and their products don't have any ideas.
I think your argument is specious in another way, because it is continually getting easier
by Anonymous Coward
on Tuesday February 20 2007, @06:41AM (#18079978)
From TFA:
FBI agent Andrew Myers and the MPAA have given a group of six Swedish police officers extensive training on how to effectively combat piracy and catch people who engage in illegal downloading from the internet.
How exactly is the MPAA able to teach Swedish police how to "effectively combat piracy", when the MPAA themselves fail to achieve that?
The same they did in Poland. There are three guys coming to your home: judge, cop and IT guy. If you don't allow them in they sign a warrant on spot and enter your premises. They even have certain pricelist, like 1 PLN for a mp3, 5 PLN for a film. Plus retail price for all illegal software. If you don't pay or cooperate - they just take your computer. And they have no problems with Win software and security (as if anybody have).
"I bet the Swedish people are going to love to find out that the US government and a US lobbying group now have a hand in training their police personnel. So much for the notion of national sovereignty."
I hope the Swedish will love it just as much as the Iraqi people do.
Well, in the UK children who study computer science study a module that basically tells them how to comply with software licences, and that it is illegal to "copy software".
So what, in communist countries you had to study Marxism/Leninism, no matter what you studied. At least so far the copycrap hasn't been forced down every other science branch.
"The judicial system is make a mistake a see these lobby organisations as some sort of private police corp. Their only interest is to keep their old profitable monopoly. There organisations have nothing to do in our judicial system, says The Pirate Partys partyleader Rickard Falkvinge."
Problem is that 'old profitable monopoly' finances politicians, which in turn do whatever those monopolies want. It's called politics. No way to do anything to it, as long as they have at least a little of their reputation left. Which is not much, anyway.
Swedish politicians are actually not funded directly by private interests, since we don't have personal elections in the true sense of the word.
Although you are allowed to check your personal favourite on the ballot, your vote still counts mainly against the party of that candidate. While this reduces the need for candidates to fund their own election campaigns, it creates an interesting problem in my opinion since the political parties instead get their funding from the taxpayers.
This means there's no
Folks, Swedes are not angels. They are people just like you and me. Yes, there is no RIAA or MPAA in Sweden (yet), but that doesn't mean that there aren't wealthy and powerful people who are pushing their profit-driven agenda, there.
The same is true for my country, Finland. Yeah, it's where Linus was born and raised, but it doesn't make it heaven on earth. For example, we have our share of corrupt CxOs, don't worry.
You know, this is how the Vietnam war started. First we send in "advisors". Then we make up a story about being attacked off the coast of Gotland, and the rest is history.
for that, whereas, as they say, a 'worldwide battle against terrorism' is going on at the same time ?
Very curious that, one important government agency can spare resources to spend for a PRIVATE organisation's whims, whereas there are army units deployed in iraq, afghanistan, pakistan is battling a lot of internation terrorist organisations trying to get roots in there, and terrorists are constantly trying to sneak into major western countries ?
Either they are screwing us over terrorist threat level, or they are screwing us over our taxes.
Up until now, I was always apprehensive of visiting Sweden for fear of being assaulted from all angles by pirates trying to get me to buy a bootleg of Justin Timerlake's latest CD, but now I will be able walk the streets of Sweden with confidence.
All jokes aside, this is very disturbing. Even more disturbing is the fact that I have read several comments that don't seem too troubled by this behavior. People have forgotten that the police are a resource used to protect the physical well-being of their fe
Exactly. Our law enforcement is quickly becoming little more than hired guns for corporate interests. They have become a twisted fun house mirror view of law and order.
If other countries give into our corporate attack animals then that is their problem and they deserve everything they get. If other countries see their own sovereignty as something to be given away to US industries then they deserve everything they get.
I want to know if the FBI and MPAA represenatives were given extensive training in the difference in laws between the two countries concerning copyright and civil rights before teaching the police force how to properly enforce the laws as they apply.
Revolution (Score:4, Insightful)
It's time the governments of the world feared the people.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The only people that took away your rights was yourselves.
Wake up.
stupid thinking (Score:5, Interesting)
NO, its the corporates that control things...like the mass media, party funding, and so on.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/ [fas.org]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/corresponden t/2841377.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Which "People" ? (Score:3, Informative)
The American government represents the American "people". But the question is, who are the American "people"? Sadly, the Supreme Court ruled in 1886 that a corporation is a person, with the same constitiutional rights as a human person. And as "people', corporations are immortal, incredibly wealthy, and exhibit psychopathic behavi
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Not People.
Re:Revolution (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
It is revolution. Out with the old, in with the new.
Re:Revolution (Score:4, Insightful)
It is revolution. Out with the old, in with the new.
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
-The Who Won't Get Fooled Again.
Parent
Bloc-ization (Score:5, Funny)
As time goes on and power is consolidated in the world, smaller powers will find themselves increasingly strongly attached to the main power bloc with which they are affiliated. Thus European nations find themselves increasingly Americanized, Asia finds itself increasingly Sinicized, and the Islamic world finds itself increasingly dominated by relatively uniform fundamentalist thinking, as opposed to the diverse, relatively secular regional ideologies that prevailed in the last century.
Eventually, the three nations of Eurasia, Eastasia and Oceania will settle down into their near-endless cold war.
P.S. Eastasia will win.
Re:Bloc-ization (Score:5, Funny)
What are you talking about?
We've always been at war with the pirat...terroris...er...EastAsia
Parent
Good article, trolling comment- (Score:5, Insightful)
There are United States military troops in Germany, Italy, South Korea, Japan, Colombia, the Phillipines, Indonesia, Kosovo, Egypt, Singapore, Thailand, the UK, Spain, Turkey, Portugal, Qatar, Bahrain, Cuba, etc. etc. etc. We run the Iraqi and Afghanistan governments. Training Swedish police is not a threat to national sovereignty, and if you dispute this, it still barely scrapes the iceberg. It's hysteria to complain that training foreign governments is intruding on their sovereignty if they request it.
We train police around the world, in almost all situations, our assistance is requested and welcomed. (by the governments, at least) If the wholly independent Swedish government and the people were opposed, there might be a case.
Complain about training them in bad DMCA-style law enforcement, or in RIAA-scare-tactics. Don't complain about a foreign country asking and receiving assistance.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
That the other speaker at the conference was the swedish version of RIAA that have tried to use scare tactice already, doesn't make it better. The only problem with FBI is that they are talking together with MPA at this occation.
Re:Good article, trolling comment- (Score:5, Insightful)
The MPAA aren't soldiers, they aren't police, and they aren't a neutral public institution. Their concerns isn't for the citizens. They're there solely to make sure their profits are safeguarded and that things will go exactly the way they want them to. They've essentially bought their way into law enforcement and there's something profoundly unsettling about that.
Parent
Re:Good article, trolling comment- (Score:4, Insightful)
Apparently the RIAA is a full-fledged police force [slashdot.org], so I'm guessing the MPAA just wanted in on the "let's dress up like Hollywood SWAT team members and pretend to be police" action too.
Parent
Re:Good article, trolling comment- (Score:5, Interesting)
What the big fuss is about, is that the Swedish police is tacitly agreeing that it will follow FBI:s and MPAA:s anti-piracy policies and do their dirty work for them. Which means do everything they can to shut down thepiratebay.
Parent
Re:Good article, trolling comment- (Score:5, Insightful)
Firstly, I expect the FBI and MPAA will be tainted to train to American laws. Obviously the Unless copyright laws are aligned between the two countries we're likely to see the Swedish Police overstepping the mark, like they did when they confiscated TPB servers previously - didn't that turn out to be against local law (TPB was working within the law?).
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
didn't that turn out to be against local law (TPB was working within the law?).
That hasn't been determined yet. The police have imaged their servers, but refuse to give them back. They probably intend to keep them forever, maybe sell them to some criminals to make a tidy profit, as has been recently reported in local newspapers.
The case main prosecutor actually wrote in a PM six months before the raid that TPB was probably not doing anything illegal, or at least not doing something that they could prosecute. You can't prosecute someone for contributory copyright infringement witho
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Sidenote: The US militairy troops in e.g. Germany have no authority outside the borders of their camps, also not over the German military. Also, in many
Re:Good article, trolling comment- (Score:4, Insightful)
I doubt very highly, that the people of Sweden are in any way interested in copyright infringement law enforcement. Its lunacy to even be talking about it, copyright infringement is our countries way of trying to hold back the tide of an every increasing momentum of free expression. This isn't book and print. You put something out on the net or make it digital it no longer has any substance. It exists in the minds of the people that create it and experience it. Sharing ideas whether they originated with you are not is a natural part of how we express our selfs. Get over it, and move the fuck on.
Parent
I'm Swedish and I think like this: (Score:2, Interesting)
A) Copying IS NOT stealing.
B) As long as the people that made the data that is being copied has a roof over their head and food to eat they can't complain too much. If they have more they should just STFU.
C) A pirate is not bad if he does not use copied content to make money. Pirates that profit is however an issue to talk about.
D) We live and die. If somebody copies a file in order to increase their life's value I say go ahead and let him. It's all about making people's li
Re: (Score:2)
In this respect, how is the Internet different than analog broadcast? I can't touch or hold any broadcast any more than I can touch or hold a digital stream.
The reasoning you have on sharing ideas seems pretty odd on a site whose constituents routinely say that the recording and movie industries and their products don't have any ideas.
I think your argument is specious in another way, because it is continually getting easier
Uh (Score:5, Insightful)
FBI agent Andrew Myers and the MPAA have given a group of six Swedish police officers extensive training on how to effectively combat piracy and catch people who engage in illegal downloading from the internet.
How exactly is the MPAA able to teach Swedish police how to "effectively combat piracy", when the MPAA themselves fail to achieve that?
Re:Uh (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it a law? Or it's an abuse?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
In next election.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you, RIAA, this was the most intelligent thing to do.
Now there is a thought. (Score:5, Funny)
UK children (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In my university we used so much free software that it would be strange to have a course teaching students that "it's illegal to copy software". :)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, they call it ICT.
I did exactly that, and have never heard of this so-called software license module.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/ict/leg
I know, it's premature and immature, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment from the Pirat Party (Score:5, Insightful)
"The judicial system is make a mistake a see these lobby organisations as some sort of private police corp. Their only interest is to keep their old profitable monopoly. There organisations have nothing to do in our judicial system, says The Pirate Partys partyleader Rickard Falkvinge."
That pretty much sums it up if you ask me.
Re:Comment from the Pirat Party (Score:4, Insightful)
It's called politics.
No way to do anything to it, as long as they have at least a little of their reputation left. Which is not much, anyway.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The most wonderful irony... (Score:5, Insightful)
Fight them abroad... (Score:2)
Wrong perception in the USA (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
we'd never do that (Score:2, Informative)
So ? You swedish are going to let this slide ? (Score:3, Interesting)
There are no news around to that extent yet. We are waiting to see some swedish democracy in action.
MPAA and FBI Help To Train Swedish Police (Score:3, Funny)
Isnt it also curious that FBI spares resources (Score:3, Interesting)
Very curious that, one important government agency can spare resources to spend for a PRIVATE organisation's whims, whereas there are army units deployed in iraq, afghanistan, pakistan is battling a lot of internation terrorist organisations trying to get roots in there, and terrorists are constantly trying to sneak into major western countries ?
Either they are screwing us over terrorist threat level, or they are screwing us over our taxes.
Sweden: Grow a Set (Score:2, Informative)
All jokes aside, this is very disturbing. Even more disturbing is the fact that I have read several comments that don't seem too troubled by this behavior. People have forgotten that the police are a resource used to protect the physical well-being of their fe
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If other countries give into our corporate attack animals then that is their problem and they deserve everything they get. If other countries see their own sovereignty as something to be given away to US industries then they deserve everything they get.
Re: (Score:2)