Indonesia Stops Sharing Avian Virus Samples 243
dankrabach writes "Indonesia has apparently decided to play the IP game, with the world's health at stake. The country, one of the hardest-hit by avian flu, has stopped submitting virus samples to the World Health Organization, and is negotiating to sell them to an American drug company that makes the vaccine. They feel slighted when they give away such samples, but then cannot afford the patented vaccines. Logical to me, given the rules of the game; however, can't we come up with some GPL'ish license to free any product based on this data?"
Avian Flu (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A Solution (Score:2, Insightful)
Alternate first sentence (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be pissed too if i was indonesia.
Damn Straight! (Score:1, Insightful)
I agree with them, why give some company everything they need to make record breaking profits just so you cant get the benefit from the help you gave them??
I have an idea! why don't all of you write some great stories for Sc-FI channel to make into movies and they can charge you $29.95 to watch them.
Capitalism at its best (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:A Solution (Score:3, Insightful)
American Companies would just form joint 'research' partnerships (or some other shell game) with European/African/Asian/Any company & buy it through that.
Vaccines are problematic, because they're expensive to test, usually expensive to manufacture, and aren't needed year round. Companies don't want to make 'em because they aren't ludicrously profitable like every other patented drug out there.
Compulsory licensing (of the patent) is another option, but it ruffles feathers.
No net change (Score:3, Insightful)
But, but, but the free market will fix everything! (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, though, I wonder how long it wil be before some misguided Libertarian offers up a serious excuse as to why this is a good thing. I can't wait, it's been a while since I've seen a good contortionist show.
Re:Alternate first sentence (Score:5, Insightful)
A Geek Solution (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess this is why geeks aren't called to solve world problems. It isn't an "American" problem, but an economic one. As the other poster pointed out vaccines cost money to develop, and test. A GPL license isn't going to solve that problem. A socialist solution were the entire planet pays for the process might. But then "the world" isn't noted for working together for the common good either.
Re:But, but, but the free market will fix everythi (Score:1, Insightful)
Free drugs - doubtful (Score:4, Insightful)
No. Drug companies don't play games like this. None will sink money into developing a vaccine based on a virus sample if they cannot be granted exclusive rights to produce that vaccine for a period of time. They'll go spend their R&D dollars on fighting developing some other drug that they can use to rake in big stinking piles of cash instead.
That's the way capitalism works - when people decide what to invest in, they rarely look at putting money behind something that they realize is not likely to give them a large return out of the goodness of their hearts. They figure out what's going to make them the most money. The market is not known for rewarding altruism. As a result, any drug company that wants to continue to exist as a drug company is going to do very little in the way of charity research, and instead do the kind of stuff that attracts capital.
The only way we're going to get drug research without patent protection is to start some sort of government agency whose primary purpose is to do this stuff. But good luck getting that to happen (in the US, anyway) voters don't have a history of being in favor of things like this, and the drug industry would viciously lobby against any sort of government-sponsored competitor.
Just what we need... (Score:2, Insightful)
I know everyone is going to side with Indonesia...in fact, I think they should do what they need to do in order to secure their own access to medicines derived from the samples they give. However, if it were the U.S holding virus samples hostage for its own benefit, people would be calling for blood.
Another perfect example of hypocrisy. People want everything equal until someone or something they don't like gets to exercise the same equality.
Capitalism (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the rule, that's what corporations do, that's America! If they don't they very quickly get thrown out by the shareholders and replaced by those that understand this rule. Why are people shocked?
Nobody in their right mind expects Indonesians will be able to afford the vaccine, they will die en mass. This is why we have universities and the WHO, where scientists who haven't crossed over to the dark side develop cures for things.
Waitaminute. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd get pretty tired of that, too. This isn't "playing the IP game, with the world's health at stake". This is fighting back against the IP trolls, who are holding the world's health hostage.
No money? No reason. (Score:5, Insightful)
A vaccine is expensive to make.
If there's no profit, there's no incentive.
If there's no funding, there's no resources.
Tragic, but you don't want to do the work - no matter how helpful - if it doesn't put food on your table and a movie on your TV.
Sure you can volunteer a bit, but only if it doesn't harm your personal bottom line.
What are YOU doing to prepare the Avian Flu vaccine? Thought so.
In the long-shot chance you _are_ working on an Avian Flu vaccine, are you doing it for free? Thought so.
Yes, it makes sense for drug companies to charge a fortune for the Avian Flu vaccine - it will cost them a fortune to create it.
Yes, it makes sense for Indonesia to make arrangements to assure they get the vaccine (either thru barter or billing).
Yes, it sounds perverse to sell the disease to buy the cure.
Welcome to the real world.
You don't cure a pandemic for free.
You got a better idea?
There's plenty of money. (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's my idea: make every politician pay for pork out of his own pocket. I'm sure that suddenly there'll be a couple of billion dollars left over from my (and yours and everybody elses) taxes to fund some serious research into a bird-flu vaccine. I'm also not opposed to shooting politicians who dole out pork, but some might consider that animal-cruelty.
See, the free-market has known limitations, and we have solutions to the problems that a free-market economy has. The problem is neither the free market (nor your implied accusation that people want to have their cake and eat it too), but the fact that our current political system is unable to deal with any crisis, due to the corruption of its actors (politicians) and the overall greed, lazyness and stupidity of its stakeholders (the voters). I fully expect that if a crisis hits, we'll be run by a dictator in a heartbeat. Sort of like now, except all out and fully accepted by everyone.
nationalize all drug companies (Score:3, Insightful)
Average Indonesian won't benefit (Score:4, Insightful)
Instead of the usual situation where virus samples go to Big Pharma, who make patented vaccine, and get rich saving the developed world and wealthy people in the developing world, while Indonesian proles get neither vaccine nor money, we'll have the situation where virus samples go to one part of Big Pharma, who will (hopefully) make vaccine, and get rich saving the developed world and rich people in the developing world, and send royalties back to already rich Indonesians. Again, Indonesian proles will get neither vaccine nor money.
This is just a cynical money grab by the Indonesian elite, and, worse, by restricting who gets access to virus samples they just might be delaying the development of a vaccine that will save millions of lives.
A lot of questions for you... (Score:1, Insightful)
Does modern genetics have a solid grasp on this process? Is there any indication that Bird Flu's Transmission capabilities are evolving to this end?
You may think i'm coming down on this point rather hard, but terms such as "eventual mutation" in relation to air transmission make me wonder where you, and it seems the larger population, are getting this idea from.
I feel like spending all this money and time and mindshare on the 'Threat of the week' is going to seem foolish in light of any real threat. Which it seems will without a doubt come from the last place humanity expects it.
Re:Avian Flu (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A Solution (Score:4, Insightful)
The easiest way to achieve this is to charge for the samples, effectively providing funding for the purchase of the vaccine. Seems quite reasonable to me.