The Return of the Fairness Doctrine? 732
Slithe writes "Last week at the National Conference for Media Reform, Ohio congressman Dennis Kucinich (a long-shot candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination) stated that the Fairness Doctrine may be reinstated. Kucinich will be heading up a new House subcommittee that will focus on issues around the FCC. The Fairness Doctrine was an FCC regulation that required broadcast media to present controversial issues in an honest, equal, and balanced manner. The FCC repealed it in 1987 — Democrats at the time tried to forestall this move but were ultimately thwarted by a veto by President Ronald Reagan. Critics of the Fairness Doctrine have stated that it was only used to intimidate and silence political opposition. At the convention, Kucinich said, 'We know the media has become the servant of a very narrow corporate agenda. We are now in a position to move a progressive agenda to where it is visible.'" In the interest of fairness, here is a Republican, free-market perspective on the return of the Fairness Doctrine.
flamewar comin' (Score:5, Insightful)
I was going to sit out this flamewar, but I just have to get involved.
Despite quite a bit of disagreement with him, I have a fair amount of respect for Kucinich, if for no other reason than he at least *seems* to be consistent in what he says and does. And like him, I am worried that the media is now in the hands of so few people, but who would police this "fairness?
<sarcasm>Surely politicians are bought and sold by corporate interests. Surely we can trust committees of appointees to handle things in a "present controversial issues in an honest, equal, and balanced manner."</sarcasm>
It seems like everyone in the political scene thinks that there is a media bias one way or another, and, for all I know, there probably is but I don't see it being made better by putting the politicians in charge of it.
"Liberal media" (Score:5, Insightful)
Unintended Consequences (Score:5, Insightful)
Now every story on global warming will need to be 1/3 saying it's happening and humans are at least partly responsible, 1/3 saying it's happening and it's 100% natural, and 1/3 saying it's not happening at all, and things like arctic melting [slashdot.org] are just a hoax manufactured for leftist propaganda.
Meanwhile, any show on PBS or the Discovery Channel that deals with evolution in any way shape or form will have to cover not just the scientific consensus that natural selection has been at work for millions of years, but also Intelligent Design and young-Earth creationism. Similarly, anything about geology will have to include both the old-earth consensus and the idea that, for instance, the Grand Canyon was created during Noah's flood.
Let's see if we can find Velikovsky [wikipedia.org] and von Daniken [wikipedia.org] a place while we're at it.
And let's not get started with making sure the Viet Cong's point of view is presented with equal weight to both the hawk and dove sides of the American point of view....
Racism more troubling that "fairness" (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree that there serious problems with the way controversial issues are presented on the major television channels in the USA. I'm not convinced that the problem is fairness, per se. Instead, the problem seems more related to a tendency to present extremely complex issues in a simplistic binary manner (e.g. that the USA will either "succeed" or "fail" in Iraq).
I am even less convinced that legislation can solve the problem. The only solution that I see is to let people who care about being informed move to other more complete sources of information such as the internet.
The one thing that does bother me is the implicit racism in many of the entertainment shows on the major television channels. I wouldn't mind seeing a rule that the racial/ethnic/religious affiliations of the villians has to be chosen at random. Essentially, if it wouldn't be OK to portray Jewish people in a particular role then it shouldn't be OK to porttray any ethnic group in that role.
Free market - hardly (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unintended Consequences (Score:3, Insightful)
"Honest" helps in both cases -- but "fair" requires an arbiter, and we already know what this government considers to be "fair."
Exactly. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why debates like global warming and evolution loom so large, because in the interests of "fairness" views that are held by very small minorities of people are given the same amount of play as views that are extensively proven and supported.
Rather than this, I'd rather see a standard of truth applied to non-opinion mass media...Make them cite their numbers, and post the credentials of their "experts", and make them admit to errors of fact that appear on their broadcasts.
Forced, Uninentional Bias (Score:5, Insightful)
Does This Mean (Score:0, Insightful)
I seriously Doubt it.
The liberals failed in their attempt to gain radio market share, Air America is Bankrupt. Whether you agree with conservatism or no, it obviously sells well, thats why it dominates radio and liberal tripe out side of NPR doesn't do well.
Conservatism has Fox News, and Talk Radio, Liberals have ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, PBS and NPR.
So where is the lack of Fairness in the way things are now?
There is no need for the fairness doctrine, unless your liberal and want your total domination of the Information people have access too, back that you had back from the 30s through the 80s.
Fairness Doctrine silences right talk radio (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble is that left wing talk radio doesn't sell ads, because no one listens to it. So radio station operators had to chose between a few hours of right wing talk radio that was profitable, balanced by a few hours of left talk that wasn't, or just filling the airwaves with silly pop songs that generated decent revenue consistently.
You don't have to believe me, you can go check for yourself the respective popularity & profitability of Air America vs Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Rielly, Mike Savage, etc.
Left wing talk radio doesn't sell. So forcing radio stations to carry equal amounts of right wing and left wing radio makes them lose money, so they drop it altogether.
Now like most internet forums, Slashdot is teeming with lefties. I imagine most of you will be fine with this cause talk radio is just a bunch of right-wing hate mongers, right? Eh? No harm in silencing that, huh?
Unless, of course, you happen to think freedom of speech and property rights stands for something.
The obvious counter is that the airwaves are public property, and you're right. You're also ignoring that the leftist point of view permeates most broadcast TV quite thoroughly (Yes, except for Fox). If you don't realize it, it's for the same reason fish don't realize they're wet.
Truth is the elimination of the fairness doctrine made the airwaves more fair, because presenting a right wing point of view became profitable when you weren't burdened with the left wing. It wasn't be the first government policy that had the precise opposite of it's intended effect, and it won't be the last.
If you support the return of the fairness doctrine after actually paying attention to the history of it, you might as well say "Free speech for me, but not for thee."
Not to Burst your Bubble (Score:2, Insightful)
doubtful constitutionality (Score:5, Insightful)
The constitutionality of the 'fairness doctrine' was upheld by the Supreme Court in the case Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC (1969) on the basis that the FCC content-based regulation of broadcast television programming was appropriate in light of scarce broadcast resources and its mandate to act in the public interest for limited broadcast airwave frequencies. In other words, with only so many frequencies to dole out, it made sense at the time for the FCC to have some role in ensuring that a diverse array of viewpoints had access to broadcasting.
In this day and age, where over-the-airwaves broadcast TV is mandated to be replaced by digital TV receivers (where interference and broadcast scarcity are much less of an issue) quite soon, and where cable, satellite, and the Internet have opened up innumerable avenues for mass and niche media and communication, the rationale for Red Lion just totally falls apart. This was essentially the rationale of the FCC in the 1980s when it did away with the fairness doctrine for precisely the reason that it felt it was no longer justified in light of the then-contemporary media environment (an environment that has only become more numerous and fragmented than it was then, and certainly compared to the days where all there was were the 'big three' networks).
Plus, do we really want FCC bureaucrats editing TV programming for political content? That just seems like a system ripe for abuse.
IANAL (though I very recently passed the bar exam and so I'm very close to being one...)
Re:Unintended Consequences (Score:2, Insightful)
Getting 1/3 of the discussion to be fact based would be an improvement.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
My fellow Slashdotters (Score:5, Insightful)
That is all.
Quote from TFA (Score:2, Insightful)
Nice to see this from the FCC chair, but what can he do about it?
All Channels Aren't Created Equal (Score:2, Insightful)
"To say that this is an antiquated concept in a time of several-hundred-channel cable TV, satellite TV, satellite radio, and of course our little Internet, is to state the obvious."
Fails to acknowledge that not all communication media are created equal. Broadcast frequencies, which are easily received by inexpensive, common televisions and radios, are fundamentally different than satellite channels that are vended by select providers, which are in turn wholly different than Internet channels that mostly blend into the wallpaper.
Perhaps a better approach would be to reverse the concentration of private ownership of public frequencies, and to revoke the lifelong leases of public frequencies given to corporations. Why, for instance, can Clear Channel buy and sell these allocations? Why is there a secondary market for public resources? Why doesn't this money flow back to the owners of the airwaves?
What does the Constitution say? (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
Will the media be required to provide "balanced" coverage on evolution vs. creationism?
Will the media be required to provide "balanced" coverage on climatologists vs. global warming deniers?
Will the media be required to provide "balanced" coverage on the "Moon hoax" or Cydonia?
What about Timecube?
The JFK assassination?
I have no idea how this could be implemented and not have it backfire.
Re:"Liberal media" (Score:5, Insightful)
When Reuters pasted doctored photos and staged photographs during the recent Israeli incursion into Lebenon, how would the "fairness" doctrine be enacted. If it weren't for people like LGF and other bloggers who countered these biased lies and propaganda, what would have happened????
Not to mention the "unbiased" Dan Rather and the forged documents by a political hack being reported as "fact". How would the "fairness" doctrine handle that? I suspect that Dan Rather would still be reporting from CBS news.
I'm sure that there are equally egregious examples from "right wing" media, but since I can't actually point to any "right wing" media outlets, I'm stumped at actually describing one.
So, who actually benifits from this "Fairness Doctrine", why the only people Truly interested in censorship, who gets to decide what is, and isn't fair? Don't agree? Too bad because you don't get a say.
And how does one actually deal with the "new media", the internet and blogging? Does LGF have to hire a leftwing blogger in order to be "fair"?? How about MoveON.org? Do they have to hire right wing wackos?
The only reason why people are looking for a "fairness doctrine" is because they cannot compete in the world of ideas (AirAmerica???); nobody really wants to listen to Al Franken.
I always found it very interesting that it is the liberal, left wing people were the ones needing "fairness doctrine" to get their ideas out. I wonder though if the would allow a third viewpoint (Libertarianism), or if they would rather just keep it Al Franken vs Rush Bimbo.
Re:"Liberal media" (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a little exercise for you: some Republicans fret over the media's use of "insurgents" for the bombers in Iraq. They want the media to call them terrorists, which IMHO is slightly more accurate, but nothing to get your panties in a bunch over. So, should the FCC step in and require news outlets to call them terrorists? Should they require Fox to call them insurgents too? Who decides if something is balanced? Where do you draw the line.
Besides, with everyone complaining about the FCC being overly cautious after the Janet Jackson nipple incident, you'd think that everyone would realize that we don't want/need the FCC to try deciding things like this.
Re:"Liberal media" (Score:5, Insightful)
Bzzt, wrong. Nice uninformed try, however.
Repeal of the "fairness" doctrine basically made conservative talk radio. Limbaugh has been pointing this out for years. Prior to the repeal, AM was good for commodity price reports (cattle, wheat, etc.,) NPR and not much else. After, hundreds of radio shows ranging from psycho wackjob militia types to mainstream conservatives (yes, there are differences) appeared across the US.
Clinton et al tried the same thing in the early 90's. The Right labeled it the 'Hush Rush' bill. It died on the vine after the '94 sweep of Congress. They're back I guess, and for the same reason.
Legislating "fairness" in political discourse is bad. It doesn't matter which side is doing it, mkay? It's just wrong. If DeLay had tried to pull this you'd be apoplectic with hysteria about fascism. It isn't OK because it's coming from some left wing incumbent like Kucinich.
Re:Unintended Consequences (Score:3, Insightful)
The intent of the doctrine is irrelevant. The implementation of any such doctrine would almost certainly mean that media outlets would make every issue, even if it's not really widely controversial, into a one-side-versus-the-other, "equal time" argument.
It's silly.
News outlets exist today for every possible political and social affiliation you could want. If you're liberal, listen to NPR. If you're conservative, Fox News. This is what people want. They want news sources that represent their views of the world, and this is what the news outlets are going to deliver, regardless of what requirements you try to drive down on them from on high.
Get to the root: Tax net assets (Score:3, Insightful)
There is every reason to charge a use fee for property rights that would not exist in the absence of government and very little reason to tax domestic economic activities.
The failure to tax the right thing results in an accumulation of wealth in the hands of those already wealthiest and this results in increased centralization of ownership of everything including the means of indoctrinating the populous.
Moreover, as people increasingly recognize on both the right and left, it is important to avoid replacing centralization of wealth with centralization of political control. Tax revenues should be evenly dispersed to the citizens without any prejudice in a citizens dividend so they can enjoy the kind of yeoman class independence that created people like Newton and the Wright Brothers.
Problem: (Score:2, Insightful)
So the problem is fairness according to whom.
Bias is inescapable in the media because people are somewhat oblivious to their own bias and will often present the information, which can only be filtered through the lenses of their existing biases, as fact because thats they way the actually saw the event unfold (within the limits of their biased perceptions).
The fairness doctrine is nice in principal but who is objective and neutral enough to be its enforcer?
No One
What would enivitably happen is that this fairness doctrine would become another buzz word of the day issue of partisan politics wasting everyones time slinging dirt back and forth.
People really just need to be smart enough to recognize the biases for themselves and filter out the useful information out of the news that is presented...all it takes is a grain of salt.
Thats my $0.02
Who defines it and who oversees it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:5, Insightful)
Although it's often harder to tell which the bad side is, purely political viewpoints can be just as factual on one side and bunk on the other. Yet with "fairness," the bunk will be elevated to the same level as the sound. For example, politics is full of economic viewpoints that are either factually incorrect, or basically just guesses. As soon as someone has one of these brilliant thoughts, now we have to give him equal billing to spread his nonsense?
I hate Fox news. I've rarely seen such a wretched hive of scum and villainy outside of the Rush Limbaugh show. They elevate bad ideas and squash clear thinking on a regular basis. Politics takes the place of science and dogma takes the place of thought. Yet I'd rather have them, and Brother Rush, even expand their broadcasts than to force thoughtful networks with good fact-checking to distribute ill-conceived, factually incorrect bullshit out of "fairness."
TW
Re:Get to the root: Tax net assets (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:5, Insightful)
If they want to prevent the takeover of the media by single points of view, why don't they enforce tighter limits on station ownership?
Re:Get to the root: Tax net assets (Score:3, Insightful)
psst free hint: populous, besides being a game, is a word meaning "populated" or "full of population". The populace is the collected population.
Anyway you have a good point but I take issue with one part of it:
That wasn't needed by Newton or the Wright Brothers. Instead, we should simply stop taking as much of it away. Of course, if we really wanted to institute fairness in taxation we would need a fairly complicated system. A flat tax is fair in that it does not allow for exemptions, but it is unfair in that the poor must spend a larger percentage of their income on the taxes for necessary goods like clothing and transportation. Thus we would need a flat tax system with rebates which occurred monthly, or with cards (or similar) giving an exemption of taxes for certain types of goods for people under a given income. If the tax exemption model is used, then the government gains access to a list of everything you purchase for which you are exempt from taxes, which raises privacy concerns.
Consequently what we need to do is close tax loopholes for the very rich. I did a little research on this a while back and in the year 2000, the top ten taxpayers were only paying taxes on only 50% of their income! Meanwhile, I pay taxes on 100% of my income. What is this shit all about? The people making the least money barely pay taxes, the people making the median incomes pay the most, and the people at the very top pay less than the people in the middle. The people most able to pay aren't paying even THEIR share.
It's not "Right Wing" that sells... (Score:5, Insightful)
For another example - intentionally taken from other than the "talk radio" arena to help emphasize my point, "Judge Judy" might be a well qualified judge...or, she might not. The reason she has a TV show, however, is because she's a "bitch on wheels".
Contraversy, imflammatory statements, and being a general cynical asshole might make you popular to the lowest common denominator, but it doesn't make your point of view better or inherently more popular.
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:4, Insightful)
I've had enough of "fair and balanced" coverage, thank you.
-stormin
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:1, Insightful)
Quite simply, it can't. When regulations abound on how news outlets must cover "controverial" (who defines that?) material, the solution is simple: don't cover controversial material. Why bother when the dumb massess would rather hear about the latest hollywood marriage/divorce/adoption/et c.
Which is the whole point. Onerous regulations effectively apply censorship.
Re:"Liberal media" (Score:5, Insightful)
Factor in a super-polarizing figure like Hillary Clinton in 2008 and you will see the republican base come out in droves. About the only thing that has a chance to keep the republicans out of power is if the republican nominee is a socially liberal candidate. Even then, a ton of democrats would rather vote for a Rudy Guilliani type over Hillary.
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is with self-labeling. How is someone supposed to objectively rate themselves on such a simple one-dimensional spectrum?
In the current system, people rate other people. Anyone who cares enough to find out can see the issues through the eyes of quite a few different people. On
If you watch a TV program, the only thing you need to know is that you're only seeing one viewpoint. If that's your only source of information, you are missing a lot of perspectives. Sometimes an entire channel shares common perspectives (Fox News), and sometimes many channels present only one perspective on an issue (the "MSM" is largely fed by the NYT). That doesn't mean they're wrong, but it means that if you get into an argument with someone, you'll probably lose, because you probably haven't considered their viewpoint.
There's no such thing as a balanced perspective. There are many perspectives, and the more you see the more you're immune from political trickery and double-talk.
There's a reason those stand out (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a reason those two stand out in your mind. They're unusual. Do you really think the blogosphere would have stayed quiet if there were a "balance" doctrine or are you just trolling? I hope for your sake it's the latter.
It's equally hard for me to believe that you don't realize that Fox News is the quintessential "right wing" media. The reason there's no news about its mistakes is because they're not news - they're expected. Of the few episodes I've watched (because I was in someone else's house), I don't believe there wasn't a single one without an error more egregious than Dan Rather's. One lie even had one of the blonde ladies scratching her head. I guess she didn't get the memo that you're supposed to read the stories without questioning their veracity!
Corporate Media (Score:2, Insightful)
The solution is to break up the media into MUCH smaller companies that are not controlled by a few and not allow them to be combined ever again. It is incredibly important that everything we see and hear is NOT controlled by a few who will feed us what they want to meet hidden agendas. Currently we have corporate media and it's not a good thing.
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:5, Insightful)
Got that? He wants the Governtment "to monitor and alter the content of radio and television programs.". Remember, this is the same govt that will at any given time be led by the political party you are against. Do you want republicans to have this power to alter radio and tv science content? Do you want democrats to have this power to alter radio and tv economic content?
Re:Does This Mean (Score:3, Insightful)
There was a serious problem of these "intelligentsia" running around during the Clinton sex scandal that made an semi complicated thing overly complicated by diverting the attention of the fact that a politician lied under oath into a problem with sex. The original problem was perjury, but after the comedians got done with it the story was all about the affair....
The good news is most of these people are so apathetic that they won't go out and vote, but the place where they get their information is scary.
Re:Unintended Consequences (Score:2, Insightful)
If you want facts, check the Internet. While many websites stoop to that low, low level, the ability to accrue multiple sources at once within a short span of time (and no stinkin' commercial breaks) hopefully enables one to shift through the bunk. If you want entertainment, however, flip on the telly!
Re:"Liberal media" (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny thing, that. In the 2006 elections not a single Republican congressman won against a Democrat.
Has nothing to do with this:
Yet we're led to believe that there's "no market" for radio with a liberal viewpoint.
Have you never heard of the Blue Dog Democrats? The Democrats gained a lot of traction in this election:
a - by moving way to the right in a lot of districts
b - by profiting from the usual 6-year itch.
Give me a break, if this election had anything to do with liberalism then Lieberman would not have trounced his democratic (and liberal) opponent. That was the real message of the election. Blue dogs win. Left-wingers try to take over by bouncing moderates out at the primary level, then get utterly slaughtered at the general polls. Yet some how, left-wingers think that they speak for the democratic party. Like most left-wing democrats you're cheerfully oblivious to the facts. The left-wing of the democratic party only helps win elections when it goes away. I wish you nuts would stop running your raving left-wing lunatics in serious elections, it makes it easy for the GOP to get Bush elected. Twice. As far as I'm considered, that's your fault for not giving serious opposition. The dems did way better than in 2006 by not by running liberals. If the dems take '06 as a license to move farther left you might as well not show up in '08.
Also: You're not "led to believe" anything. No one listens to Air America. And it's no wonder why - I tried several times and it was awful. There's no talent there. And what are the #1, #2 and #3 radio shows in America? Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck. Conservatives one and all (although Beck is more libertarian than republican). If you call stating the obvious "being led to believe" something, then yes, the country is being led to believe no one really likes far-left liberals. (Not that they love right-wingers either.)
Wake up. Extremists are extreme because most people think they are nuts. That's what it means, by definition to be at the edge of either wing of politics.
-stormin
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed! However, I'd like to add two points:
(1) Having two perspectives, neither of which is restricted by government, is valuable. I have changed my mind before based on hearing ideas from sources I wouldn't expect to agree with about anything.
(2) I think you could probably do without juxtaposing "I hate Fox News" with "good fact-checking". The fact is, one of the largest media scandals in modern history was perpetrated by Dan Rather, when he presented obviously forged documents so close to a major presidential election. He may not have meant to, but nothing about that says "good fact checking". And that's why I'm glad to have so many sources for news.
Re:and yet, it will (Score:1, Insightful)
Some people say that "not all government regulation is bad" and they welcome the Patriot Act. I would rather listen to some asshat like Rush Limbaugh 24/7 than to have politicians infringing on the 1st Amendment. I don't give a flying fuck about who's allowed to say what on the airwaves, but I'm totally against government creep against my rights and I don't care if it's through the Patriot Act (which has nothing to do with patriotism) or the Fairness Doctrine (which has nothing to do with fairness).
Easier way to do it (Score:2, Insightful)
I am a big fan of the concept of a quality public broadcaster that seeks diversity and is open enough to serve as a conduit for all sorts of views and positions, and also transparent enough so that its functioning can be scrutinized. And no, it doesn't lead to a "state-controlled media", unless "OMG they gave a leftist politician some airtime!" counts as such. The so-called independent actors are also still there to take money from corporations and right-wingers so that the propaganda and other programming suitable for their viewership (reality TV comes to mind) is still perfectly well available.
This is utterly wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
If the Democrats are really interested in media no longer representing narrow corporate interests they will instead support policies encouraging the democratization of media.
Any or all of these would do far more to encourage varied viewpoints in mainstream media than any kind of stupid mandate for 'fairness'. All that does is make sure both mainstream clubs get their say instead of random citizens with their many and varied viewpoints. There are generally far more than two sides to any issue.
The Democrats aren't miffed about corporate centralized control of media, and any protestations to the contrary are shown to be complete hypocrisy by things like the fairness doctrine. They're only miffed that this centralized control has tended to exclude them.
Because they get their news from the AP (Score:3, Insightful)
False dichotomy (Score:4, Insightful)
In reality, the issue is more complex. There are many issues and positions which may be nearly orthogonal to the single axis of 'gay marriage, for/against,' and unless you recognize that, you're going to oversimplify people's positions and pigeonhole them inappropriately.
"Equal time" laws create a false dichotomy where there may not be one. In a room of six people, you may be able to force three into "supporting" and three into "opposing" an issue, but within each three, they may be approaching the issue for completely different reasons, which may be incompatible for fundamental reasons even if they seem to be in agreement on the surface. (E.g., "I'm against gay marriage because homosexuality is a sin," and "I'm against gay marriage because all marriage is wrong and unnatural, regardless of who it's between.") To gloss over these differences and present it as being two-sided is false, and it does a disservice to the viewers of that program, by implying that there are only two opinions.
You OBVIOUSLY don't actually listen to Rush (Score:4, Insightful)
>these days are to "intelligent discourse" as "Professional Wrestling" is to
>"Combative Sports". Rush Limbaugh was not popular because of his knowledge of
>political matters (which he may well have had), he was popular because he made
>controversial and obviously inflammatory statements on the air. Apparantly, he
>was better at it than Al Franken.
I have been listening to Rush for about 10 years. I can tell you with a great deal of experience that people listen primarily BECAUSE they don't get his viewpoint on the mainstream media (MSM) that existed before he came around. Frankly, 3 to 20 million daily listeners (depending on who you believe) wouldn't stick around one person that long just for the hijinks. And it's those listeners who will be lobbying their congresscritters to kill this legislation.
Contrary to your assertion, everyone that I know who ACTUALLY listens to Rush (and I personally know dozens) thinks that he makes high quality arguments that speak truth, and that the average MSM folks are blathering idiots who desparately need to be countered. Sure, we enjoy his hyperbole, and frankly it's refreshing to hear SOMEBODY tease the liberals mercilessly, but that's secondary to wanting to hear what we believe to be the truth.
And before you go ranting about me and my friends being a bunch of hicks, let me point out that I live in a strongly blue state, with a middle to high income, flight test community of military pilots and scientists and engineers who uniformly have one or more college degrees, plus a fair mix of Walmart-shopping wage earners with high school diplomas. In short, it's not exactly average red state stuff.
So get off your high horse about Rush. We conservatives (some of whom DO read
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
Outside of Fox News, the only time you see a 'conservative talking head' is if they are a guest. CNN, MSNBC news, CBS, etc all lean to the left of American Politics.
There is certain media that the right has a monopoly over, AM radio being one of them. Pretty much all of the desirable media (ie movies, television, network news) is fueled by people who's politics lean to the left. Want to talk about how many college professors lean to the left? Will a fairness doctrine apply to them?
The fairness doctrine is silly, both sides get their messages out in different ways, over different media. Some of it is subtle, some isn't. If you are looking for a democratic talking head at 8pm EST, turn on MSNBC. Are you looking for someone who leans to the right? Turn on Fox News.
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:3, Insightful)
Also "moon-god-worshipping suicide bombers" might not be the best way of getting your point across, but I digress.
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
At best, your comment is an oversimplification.
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hah. When I hear people say "moderate", all I can think is that they don't want to make the effort to determine the better policy, and just default to splitting the difference.
But if I say that the First Amendment protects my right to say whatever I want on my website, no matter how unpopular, is that radical? By world standards, it is. In other countries, like France and Canada, you are not free to express whatever idea you want. Does a moderate in the United States "split the difference" on the First Amendment?
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:3, Insightful)
Very good insight, and a strong argument against expanding the role, scope, and power of government in this way- because to do so will simply incentivize the abuse of that power without providing a check against it.
The proposal to make the government into the 'fairness police' just moves the power to say what's fair away from the media (which is somewhat distributed) to a more central location- government- where it may be abused by even fewer people. Given that one of the major services the press provides us (in theory, anyways) is to report stuff the current government doesn't particularly want to hear, it strikes me as a VERY bad idea to make the government the arbiter of fair press.
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." -- George Orwell
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:2, Insightful)
It's sort of sad that we need a government decree to get people to talk about things in a fair, balanced manner, but unfortunately, people are only humans, and humans, as a group, simply cannot be trusted.
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:3, Insightful)
The fed shouldn't even be allowed to decide these types of issues. They should be left up to the states so that people can govern themselves. It's a lot easier to be heard at a state level, or even local. If gays in California want to marry, they should be able to, and if the mormons in Utah or the moon worshipping throat slashers in Michigan want to marry multple wives then let them if they have enough votes to get it done.
Hell if New York, California, or whatever state wants to set up universal health care, they should be able to.
Having a huge federal government telling you what to do is exactly what our founding fathers didn't want, and it leads to a lack of freedom.
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
So the problem is that the metric isn't well defined. Getting rid of the bill does, of course, solve this problem, but it remains that the majority voice isn't heard.
How about we make it simple? Petition enough people and you get to talk.
Why isn't there a real pastafarian controversy? Because not enough people are serious about it. Why is there a creationist one? Because enough people are. We can deal with the "who decides" issue more formally if lots of little minorities are drowning out the majority and nothing is getting done. That time isn't now.
Right now the majority's view isn't being heard because of the voice of a single minority view (corporate interest).
Not at all (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that this law would be a flaming sword in the hands of virtually anyone that wants to pick it up. Combine increasingly partisan and divisive media with itchy-trigger-finger lawsuits and you start to see what kind of mess could occur.
Imagine if every time someone opened their mouth on a media outlet they were subject to threats, lawsuits, fines, etc. Stray one inch into foul territory, or better yet, report truth that ois politically damaging or offensive and watch your career go bye-bye.
In an effort to stay in business broadcasters might even pare down thier language to remove possibly offensive or emotionally stirring terminoligy (a-la 1984). Details would be sparse and certain subjects would be avoided entirely. And God forbid anyone expressing a "party line" viewpoint (especially a minority party!).
I can think of no better way to completely obscure the truth than by frightening people into not talking at all.
Re:"Liberal media" (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean like falsifying federal documents (Dan Rather/CBS)?? You mean like making up stories about homeless people and reporting them as fact??? You mean like blowing up a truck to show how "unsafe" it was?
Or how about paddling a canoe on a street to report on a flood, only to be shown that it was only 4" deep.
The fact is, EVERYONE does it, so news isn't trust worthy, especially if you get it from the same source all the time. Fox is no better, no worse than everyone else. That is my point.
An army would be required (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
BULLSHIT (Score:2, Insightful)
Just because those stations aren't DELUSIONALLY, RABIDLY conservative (like Fox News) doesn't make them liberal. Criticizing Bush's invasion of Iraq, for example, is not "liberal", it's "sane." There's a difference.
I know some people in Europe, and they're all of the opinion that ALL of our news channels are quite right-leaning. Then again, you did specify "American Politics"...
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
wikiped
The "personal attack" rule was pertinent whenever a person or small group was subject to a character attack during a broadcast. Stations had to notify such persons or groups within a week of the attack, send them transcripts of what was said, and offer the opportunity to respond on the air.
Re:NPR Covers Air America's Market (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, my view is that by and large, the GOP and the ownership class tend to view information as proprietary and most valuable when closely held. On the other hand, the proper function of the Republic (and in theory, the business market) requires information and viewpoints to be openly available at nominal cost... which is NPR's news model. In that the ownership class is forced to have discussions they'd just as soon not, they find it convenient to use the Reagan rhetoric which labels the purveyors as Liberal. I think most Americans have bought into this.
Hence, NPR == Liberal, and cuts in on Air America's potential business.
"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong" (tm) Dennis Miller, comedian, brown noser
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
Being a moderate doesn't affect your perception of objective reality, unlike how some people on the far-out edge of both liberal and conservative seem to think. Facts are facts and, to a moderate, opinions to the contrary won't change them.
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:4, Insightful)
> people to talk about things in a fair, balanced manner,
> but unfortunately, people are only humans, and humans,
> as a group, simply cannot be trusted.
Well I'll just go ahead and play devil's advocate for a moment: Did it not occur to you that government consists of humans, in a group? For instance, the quotefrom Kucinich in TFA, "We are now in a position to move a progressive agenda to where it is visible," tells you exactly what his intention is: He wants to forcefully spread his own agenda, regardless of the fact that it has failed in both the marketplace and the polls. His allegation of a narrow corporate agenda is patently absurd. If you compare the reports aired on Fox News with those on CBS, for instance, you'll find that either 'the agenda' is not narrow or if either station shows a narrow point of view, there is not one singular agenda at play. His solution is to replace this false perception with conditions in which a single entity would have final say over what could be aired, with the narrowing condition of furthering his progressive/socialist agenda.
And yet the rabid right, for all its media control (Score:4, Insightful)
The American people made their decision independently of Faux News & Rush Limbaugh. As a liberal I oppose the Fairness Doctrine. We don't need such an arbitrary system.
Re:Get to the root: Tax net assets (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem with your theory is that over 80% of millionaires in this country are first-generation wealthy, and more often than not, their children do not inherit their ability to generate wealth along with whatever wealth they inherit. We live in a society that is unprecedented in the social mobility it affords its members. At no time in history has there been better financial and social mobility than we have now.
Actually, the constitution enumerates only limited powers to the government; it derives its authority from the consent of the governed, not the other way around. The basis of rights is not that they are caused by government, but that they are inherent in the people themselves. Perhaps you intended to suggest that it's reasonable to charge a use fee for services that wouldn't happen without government, but it came out backwards.
The concentration of wealth is not a problem that harms anybody, it's a non-problem that already solves itself- new wealth is constantly eclipsing the old, and sustained intergenerational wealth transfer is exceedingly rare.
Moreover, trying to 'solve' it politically is expensive and actually harmful. Whenever someone decides that it would be a great idea to use the government to take wealth away from its owners and give it to everyone else, the wealthy will quite reasonably beat them at that game like a pinata- they didn't become wealthy by losing games that involve money, after all. The resulting class warfare is expensive, divisive, and no fun. We have a tax system, for example, that is overly expensive (would you believe it costs us an estimated third of the revenue it generates, just to comply with it?) and unfair for everybody, just because we tried targeting the rich and they're better at buying congressmen (who write tax code) than the rest of us.
This is the danger we face when we try to expand the power of the government to accomplish our social missions: we become subject ourselves to this expanded power. Bringing the government into this game is like bringing a bat to a fight you're having with a better fighter than you: he'll just take the bat away from you and beat you senseless with it, at which point you'll either learn that class warfare is stupid and harmful to wage (because the rich will always win) or you'll go look for another bat to get beaten with.
Going after assets would just cause capital flight and further ensure that any taxing authority that tried it would quickly sink to bankruptcy.
Re:Choosing Sides (Score:2, Insightful)
And although there was never a tag-line for this sorry mess along the lines of "Fair & Balanced," the old dinosaur broadcast media still put on quite a show about being "objective," "fair," and "respected journalists." They billed themselves as tireless newshounds continually digging for "the facts," but oddly none of the facts that would put a conservative in a positive light or a Democrat in a negative light ever seemed to turn up.
This is exactly the template Dan Rather was following when he failed to vet his Bush-national-guard-documents for his segment on 60-minutes. Viewers were supposed to see the SeeBS 60-minutes graphics of damning document after damning document and just assume they were all on the up and up. If Rather had pulled this same stunt 30 years ago, with no blogosphere, no Fox, no Rush Limbaugh, he would have gotten away with it. And the truth, if it ever got printed, would have been buried in a two-inch column on page A24 of the New York Times six months after the election.
Still no need for a Fairness Doctrine (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem for Democrats is that they need to learn how to win elections. They don't need a fairness doctrine. They need a solid plan, and right now I think they're doing that. They won a lot of Republicans over (relatively speaking) for the recent minimum wage & prescription drug negotiation votes in Congress. Republicans in Congress are mad at being bullied by the radical Right.
Democrats have the power, now they need to speak softly and carry a big stick and concentrate on giving some relief to those bullied Republicans and not treating them like The Enemy[tm]. If the Democrats also give the working class a few victories, they'll own Congress for another 50 years. If they fail to do so, then no amount of Fairness Doctrine in the world will save them.
By sheer weight of scandals or by losing the war of ideas, you can own the media and still lose elections. That much has been proven.
BTW if the Liberals take more Congressional seats I'm voting GOP for President... God forbid we ever have a 1 party Government again. Ever.
Re:"Liberal media" (Score:3, Insightful)
Eh? What do those sentiments have to do with socialism?
You're joking aren't you? Lyndon Johnson was a socialist? In what way? That you would even consider his policies to be socialist just demonstrates how skewed your perception is, and how right-wing America is. I mean, really. Socialist??? For what reason?
Re:I agree, what does "balanced" even mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no such thing as a "global warming denier." There are only deniers of anthropogenic global warming. And they're climatologists, too!
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:3, Insightful)
That's why I'm not free to kill you for disagreeing with me.
Re:flamewar comin' (Score:3, Insightful)
The Fairness Doctrine assumes that there is "a view" and "an opposing view". That's silly. Let's take global warming as an example. There are a bunch of views:
- "It's real and we gotta do something now before the ocean swallows us."
- "It's real and it's bad, and we're causing it, but there isn't much we can do about it."
- "It's probably real, and it's probably our fault, so let's do the best we can to mitigate it."
- "It's real and it's bad, but it's a natural phenomenon and people don't have much to do with it."
- "It's not real. It's a best a minor fluctuation in climate."
- "It's real, but the benefits outweigh the costs, so sit back and enjoy it."
(Please no nit-picking over whether this is a correct or comprehensive list. Global warming is just an illustrative issue - the topic at hand is the Fairness Doctrine.)If the Fairness Doctrine were in effect, and you went on the radio with, say, #2, which of the others is the opposing view? Well, to some extent, they all are.
Let's say the topic is Federal Program X. The five possible generic views would be:
If there's a controversy over the federal program, which views are going to get presented under the Fairness Doctrine? Well, ultimately, that's up to a government bureaucrat. Does anyone really think the "abolish the program" option is going to be one of the two preferred views? A government bureaucrat, or his proxy in the media, is naturally predisposed to believe in government effectiveness, so the bottom two views will usually be the ones that are completely ignored.
In the typical case of a social program, it boils down to a Democrat arguing that we should be spending somewhat more, and a Republican arguing that we should be spending the same. The roles might be reversed, if it's something related to defense or corporate subsidies; though in that case, the "spend less" option would probably get more credibility, and the "spend a whole lot more" option would be considered fringe.
We don't even debate the "abolish the program" option much now. Under the Fairness Doctrine, it disappears completely. And the growth of government goes unquestioned. And that leads to what I consider the really pernicious effect of the Fairness Doctrine. By restricting the range of views down to the mushy middle, the debate becomes utterly boring. No one wants to hear two drones, one of which wants to spend a little more, with the other defending the status quo.
Of course, if the common citizen tunes the debate out because it's boring, that leaves the field to the activists. Most of them are on the left, so the left is just fine with boring policies debates. They don't want dittoheads emailing Congress because Rush got them pumped up about something.
I think a lot of support for the Fairness Doctrine is ultimately based on a contempt for the opinions of the common citizen. You can see it in the blather about "corporate influence". The presumption is that common folks can simply be manipulated into any opinion their corporate masters desire.
I notice that they don't seem to have any issues with how much money George Soros spends on politics. And that's explicitly political spending. Talk radio is a money-making enterprise, and is not an explicit subsidy for a political viewpoint. Yet, because talk radio engages a swath of the common citizens in ways the left cannot, even with Soros' help, the left is ready to throttle it. After all, those ignorant dittoheads don't really deserve a place in the debate, do they? They're just being manipulated into their opinions by corporate influence anyway.