Galileo Sends Its First Signals 789
VVrath writes "Galileo, the European answer to the US Military-owned GPS has sent it's first signals to ground stations in the UK and Belgium. The first satellite in the Galileo system, Giove-A was launched on December 28th 2005, and is set to be followed by a further 29 satellites by 2010. At a cost of over $4 Billion, is this system really going to offer any major advantages over GPS, or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?"
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
jamming (Score:5, Insightful)
Did they get this denied or incorporated in this network?
hum (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the Eurpoean UNION (Score:4, Insightful)
Those Gosh-Darned Europeans (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, because God forbid those Europeans act unilaterally on a technological matter involving their self-interest. You would think that five years of the Bush administration would have convinced the rest of the world that we always have their interests at heart. OK, that's all I wanted to say, time to cook up another batch of Freedom Fries.
Submitters stop with the editorials (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell is this?? More like anybody with more than 1/2 a fuckin brain realizes its a BAD idea to have the only positioning system run by a country who has made it blatantly obvious they don't care about what any other countries feel.
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Independence (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Those Gosh-Darned Europeans (Score:5, Insightful)
As it happens, this will also be good for all of us. Galileo promises [bbc.co.uk] sub-meter accuracy, faster acquisition, and better penetration through cover.
I'll be pleased as punch to accept this gift from Europe.
Piss and moan.... (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell is news of a new satilite navigation system passing it's first tests doing in the Politics section? Competition does not hurt, the lack of it does. Doing something better than the competition and never tolerating monopoly, Isn't that in the best traditions of a modern market economy? I cannot for the life of me imagine why it should be in our interest to allow the US-Military to monopolize the satilite navigation business. Please let's not turn this into another US vs. Europe pissing contest...
Fucking moron flamebait (Score:5, Insightful)
Why include such idiocy in the story? One very obvious advantage over GPS that is stated in the fucking article is that the USA reserves the right to switch GPS off. And, with ten seconds over at Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], you could find out that Galileo has a much better resolution than GPS. So mod entire story as -1, Flamebait - because there's no -5, Fucking Idiot At The Wheel option.
Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, the US does do great things. Yes, the US does make some mistakes (as does any country.) But to say that the world belongs to the US is just pure arrogance.
-Mike
A proud citizen of the United States of America
Re:Better, but not equal (Score:3, Insightful)
Concept (Score:5, Insightful)
grammar matters (Score:3, Insightful)
Tilting at windmills, I know, but please see my sig. Grammar matters. The smart people you're supposedly trying to reach when you write are tuning out and moving on when you make errors as basic as its vs. it's.
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:2, Insightful)
http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleD
I really wonder what the implications of this are if the US squared off with China over Taiwan for example. I don't really have a problem with the EU wanting to have an "ndependent defense identity" or whatever, the problem is if it ends up giving a leg up to China or North Korea, or even Iran in a future conflict with the US. Since EU countries would either be on the same side as the US, or neutral this would be seriously self defeating. Actually, I do have a problem with the EU buereacracy's implicit assumption that the US is a strategic competitor, since it could develop into a very dangerous rivalry in the long run, and no one in the EU has ever voted on this policy.
Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:4, Insightful)
Americans conveniently overlook the fact that Europeans have chosen to be a bit more socialist in their economic policies in order to build kinder and gentler societies. Just compare the crime rates between the USA and Europe. The Europeans have largely succeeded.
This Galileo system launched by Europe also demonstrates that Europe continues to be technologically competent and that slightly socialistic economic policies have not diminished Europe's ability to compete.
The Europeans should continue to build competitive national projects to demonstrate (1) that they can continue to compete with the USA and (2) that you do not need a huge military budget to spur innovation. Civilian budgets work just fine. The military industrial complex be damned.
Re:Submitters stop with the editorials (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not that the US doesn't care for other countries, it's just that each country has its own self-interest in mind. The US does what it thinks is best for itself, and Europe does the same. Big deal.
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Reading these posts, it's pretty obvious that the last exposure some people had to GPS information was in 1997 or something. Low-res selective availability? That got turned off in like 2000. And "turning off GPS for Europe" sounds kind of stupid, too - are American pilots just going to fly into the dark all the sudden? A little less paranoia, and a little more education, please...
-Erwos
Re:Politics? (Score:5, Insightful)
Trivial issues, you mean like theEuropean Constitution [dw-world.de] or farm subsidies [bbc.co.uk], which are a substantial portion of the EU's budget?
The EU has been arguing over very, very substantial issues for a long time. The question is whether or not the Union will survive them. My money used to be on no, and is slowly moving towards yes. This is mainly because I believe integration will slow down; we'll have a European identity, and a great deal of cooperation, but I do not think Europe will ever become a superstate.
Personally, I think that's a good thing.
Re:Galileo is a weapon of war against the USA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It should be noted... (Score:2, Insightful)
Apart from its obvious use for testing, it is there to SECURE (secure=reserve NOT secure=make secure) the very frequencies the final system will use.
When building a new global satellite positioning system, internationally reserving the frequency spectrum is generally considered to be A Good Thing(tm).
Ah but some will follow (Score:2, Insightful)
There was a time when we had the chance to make the world a better, more civilized place. We have squandered that opportunity.
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:4, Insightful)
Whatever the merits of these points, I'm not sure how reimplementing GPS 27 years after the analogous US satellite was launched demonstrates them.
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:1, Insightful)
Insightful? That's total flamebait! I don't know how you can claim to generally know what the American option is...it certainly is different than anything I've ever heard. Wouldn't it be better to simply state your own views instead of masking it in this way to make it appear more important?
Re:Oh please (Score:1, Insightful)
You sure about that? [slashdot.org]
Re:jamming (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:It's the Eurpoean UNION (Score:3, Insightful)
a bit like red states and blue states ?
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:1, Insightful)
It's possible that they could back down after a few ships are sunk, but I wouldn't bet on it. But the best way to avoid a war is to make sure that the US has overwhelming military superiority, and that's easier if the Chinese don't have access to precision guided munitions.
The US is willing to go crazy ape shit (Score:1, Insightful)
Al Queda (if it ain't muslim we ain't happy), Iran (if it's Jewish, they'll nuke it), North Korea (they see James Bond as their #1 threat), Belarus (they agree with North Korea). Two of these have nukes and want money badly, and two want nukes badly and have money.
I'm not saying that the US shields from these sorts of threats directly, it's just having the US around makes it a more attractive target for the crazy-go-down-in-flames attack.... "Dude, you got nuked by France because you nuked Liechtenstein? What the hell?"
Also if China invade Taiwan, it would suck economically for Europe... but only the US is standing by it 100%. If Iran nukes Israel, ditto, and only the US would help Israel retaliate. If North korea vaporizes Seoul who besides the US will take the millions of casualties to stop them?? And if South Korea or Taiwan go, so does your cushy tech job...
Oh, and the Baltic States, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, etc have good reason to fear a change of leadership (or heart) in the governments to the East. (and these countries are in Europe too) Why do you think these countries are so keen to make friends with the US? They know that the EU wouldn't lift a finger if Russia invaded, but the US would go crazy ape shit... Russia has a long history of dealing with people going crazy ape shit, and they respect it more than those who go measured-response-resolution-sanctions.
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (Score:5, Insightful)
Where is Tim Berners-Lee from? Which research organisation was he working for when he invented HTTP/HTML?
--paulj
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:2, Insightful)
The parent says it's a good thing not to depend on the good will of a single country's military, and your reaction on that is that he must hate America. He doesn't (or, at least, you can't tell he does judging on his posting).
Of course, there is always a possibility that you cracked a joke which just swooshed over my head, but I somehow doubt it.
Re:If you must ask why (Score:2, Insightful)
This will allow the US to jam Galileo in US territories and GPS to be jammed in other world territories. Basically, we can blind them in our area and they can blind us in theirs but we still have our own systems respectively.
It all seems a bit silly to me. I think Galileo is an excellent idea but all the posturing is foolish. This isn't just redundancy it's choice. It's progress. It can be the foundation of further innovation. Its accuracy and ubiquity can lead to some amazing new uses. As a bonus, the threat of those systems going down in the event the US gets upset at something is reduced.
This is not a bad idea. It has a high cost, true, but the potential benefit to the world society is immense.
Would you say the same thing about global wireless Internet access? After all, the areas that use it already have choices, broadband or not. Global wireless Internet access would be redundant to those areas. Still, I'd say it's a pretty good goal to have. Ubiquitous access to the Internet and Galileo brings to mind some very interesting ideas for developing nations. Can you think of some?
What happened - another perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
Somewhere America lost "more free" as one of its goals and replaced it with "more safe". I realized this when the DEA accused Canada of being too loose with its laws and spending too little on police. At that point we lost the title "Land of the Free", to be replaced with "Land of the Not Quite As Free As Those In Canada".
Yea, yea, it's off topic. I didn't write this for the benefit of the moderators.
Fighting to prevent ENEMIES, not war. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure. But fighting wars to prevent potential enemies isn't. Eliminate all dangerous states and replace them with democracies structured in such a way to make it very difficult for them to wage war. Then advocate free trade, with disputes mediated by an international organization and you take away a reason for other powerful states to make war on you. Then you can get buy with a minimal army.
Just look at history and you can see the value of such a plan.
The US *government* (note: not the PEOPLE) are a bunch of fairly dangerous hippocrites at best.
"We want free trade!" (unless of course, we're talking subsidising our farmers so that they can produce "cheaper" than 3rd world countries.
The US is a democracy ruled by a congress full of people both for and against free trade. On some issues one side wins and on other issues the other side wins. This isn't hypocrisy, it is democracy. And if it is so hard to pass laws that hurt a few farmers in a democracy, how hard would it be for a democratic Iran to nuke Israel and bring about a response sure to kill millions of Iranians?
When an Iranian president calls out for wiping Israel off the map - "What an outrage". When Pat Robertson calls for the US to assassinate Robert Chavez "He's just a loony"
Pat Robertson is just a guy with a TV show that says crazy things because he seems to be suffering from some sort of dementia. Just this past year he has said things offensive to Venezuela, Israel, and Pennsylvania. He asks God to smite people all of the time. Now, the Iranian president (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) is a crazy old man who participated in the holding of the hostages from the American embassy when he was younger, and is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon. If Pat Robertson did either of those things, he would be thrown in jail in two heartbeats.
And Pat Roberstson's comments have been sparking outrage in the US for years... to claim that more than a small percentage of Americans aren't outraged by him is a gross distortion of the truth.
And while I AM absolutely grateful that the US helped free Germany 60 years ago...
I guess the US freed Germany from fascism and communism, but neglected to light the beacons of logic and reason. How the hell is Pat Robertson as big a threat as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad??
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:5, Insightful)
It's funny how ignorant you are. Your sources are highly biased and you even succeeded to counter your own assertions.
Switzerland and Finland have most guns per person in Europe. In Switzerland many of the guns people have are military grade [bbc.co.uk]. That's because militia personnel are required to keep their guns at home as part of their military obligations. So how do you explain that even though people in Switzerland have powerful guns at their homes, there's still according to your sources a higher crime rate than in US? Weren't the guns supposed to lower the crime rate?
In Finland guns are mostly hunting rifles. Virtually nobody in big cities owns a hand gun. I'm from Finland, and can guarantee you that the low crime rate is not because people in the country side own guns, it's mostly because Finland is a very socialistic country when compared to US or even Switzerland. We take care of our poor, so they don't have to steal from other people to make a living. We also give a decent education to our poor, so they have a chance to get a decent job.
Did the submitter/author read about Galileo? (Score:3, Insightful)
- Galileo should offer greater accuracy - down to a metre and less
- Greater penetration - in urban centres, inside buildings, and under trees
- Faster coordinate fix
- It will be able to tell users if there are major errors that could compromise performance.
- Users will also benefit enormously from the agreement between Europe and the US to make their sat-nav systems compatible and "interoperable"
No, it's just political maneuvering....Re:USA vs. Everyone Else (Score:2, Insightful)
I certainly don't think it's unreasonable for other countries to be a bit more leary of the US under the current administration. Who's the next country that Bush wants to attack, and will only look at the evidence in favor of attacking it? This kind of behaviour is simply terrible for maintaining allies, which is what the US needs to do to do all the things you're talking about. Saying "you shouldn't be uneasy about the US because of our past behaviour" really misses the point.
Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (Score:4, Insightful)
History is loaded with great countries which don't exist anymore.
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:3, Insightful)
Thank-you for proving my point.
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:4, Insightful)
However, you can't say that America is better in any significant way. Instead of spending huge amounts of money on social programs, we spend absolutely obscene amounts of money on the military. Money we don't even have... we are borrowing incredibly heavily to finance our war machine. (and you people are giving us the wealth to do it!) Both are consumption items; money spent on welfare or the military is just gone, consumed. It can't be used for investment or research. And it's no longer in the taxpayers' pocketbooks for them to use themselves. Our taxes, in essence, is organized theft of the population at gunpoint.... to make more guns.
The only reason the US standard of living isn't a lot lower is because we're borrowing from our children to live high on the hog... we'll have guns AND butter, dammit. Somehow, I don't think our kids are going to be willing to pay our debts.
There's an old aphorism, "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime." Europe seems kind of stuck in the fish-giving stage.
The US, on the other hand, appears to subscribe to the theory, "If you have the biggest guns, you can just take all the goddamn fish you want."
Re:What happened - another perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
Land of the Bound, Home of the Craven.
Re:Better than US GPS? (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny, non-US people mostly don't agree with that. If you have enemies there's probably a good reason for that. But still, it is funny to listen to you how whole world is your enemy. Just why? Does anybody know?
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:5, Insightful)
What was your point again?
Death to Extremists! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:4, Insightful)
So were do we stand on this? We are both right but you apear to be countering an argument I didn't make. Less murders doens't make less crime it makes less murders. Maybe the reason i used propaganda sites was because a google seach showed them when i was searching for crime rates and not murder rates. Now in case you werent' following this thread long enough, i will elaborate on why i was commenting. The GP made the statment So i lookeed at the crime rates and found them to be the oposite of what we should think acording to that statment. Only focusing on portions of the crime rate doesn't change the entire position of the crime rate is larger per capa in some (most)EU countries then USA.
Cost is a non-issue (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Those Gosh-Darned Europeans (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree -- it will even be good for the US. It provides an extra level of redundancy, and what's more, it's engineered by a completely different group of people in a different country, so they may have different failure modes. Anyone for whom it's truly important to have accurate geolocation data will now have the option of getting a receiver for each system, with one serving as a backup to the other.
Nations other than the US and the EU nations will now have less risk of it shutting down because blocking acces to both systems will require the cooperation of the US and the EU.
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:In preperation for WWIII... (Score:3, Insightful)
You give these guys far too much credit. The main motives are domestic political considerations and the prospect of looting hundreds of billions from the treasury on the backs of the military for friendly corporations. Oil strategy, besides the everyday sort of corruption that decides who gets to profit from it, consisted only of the pie in the sky neo-con theory that the US could dominate the mid-east and central asia militarily.
President Bush cavorting with an Iranian spy (Ahmed Chalabi) and a 9/11 financier (Prince Bandar) should have already disabused anyone of the notion that the current administration values US national interests when making decisions.
Re:In preperation for WWIII... (Score:4, Insightful)
Very well said, we Europeans don't hate Americans, we just think ourselves superior. Must be some sort of slavish tendency to believe whatever line of bullshit we are fed by government-run, left-wing channels such as the BBC, NOS, et cetera.
The USA sticking to their Allies .. (Score:2, Insightful)
Like you stuck to the USSR or the Iraq/Saddam Hussein? At one time, even Osama bin Laden was an "ally" (when he was running a Taliban Group for the CIA). Not to mention Ho-Chi Min when he was still fighting the japanese occupation during WW2.
The term "US ally" has come to mean "Youe are -Temporaryly- useful for us, but we'll drop you like a hot potato when
Realizing this (and acting accordingly) is not paranoid.
Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (Score:3, Insightful)
Uhhh....Weimar Germany experienced an even more disastrous depression at THE SAME TIME we did in the US. And really, Roosevelt's make-work bullcrap didn't get us out of the depression, World War 2 did.