Senate Proposes Patriot Act Extension 519
geekylinuxkid writes "Senate leaders reached a bipartisan agreement Wednesday night to extend expiring and controversial provisions of the Patriot Act for six months. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Republican from Tennessee, announced the agreement from the Senate floor, ending an impasse over the measure." From the article: "Last week, the House voted 251-174 to renew the 16 provisions after striking a compromise that altered some of them. The provisions were set to expire at year's end if not renewed. Controversial measures include those allowing the FBI -- with a court order -- to obtain secret warrants for business, library, medical and other records, and to get a wiretap on every phone a suspect uses." More commentary on the BBC. We reported on last week's failure of the original renewal.
OUTGOING (Score:2, Interesting)
51596 51596
HELLO WORLD
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Why is a warrant needed? (Score:2, Interesting)
House voted for original renewal, not extension (Score:4, Interesting)
Apparently the bill still needs to go to the House, as the House originally voted for it to be renewed in it's original form, not an extension. According to that article, because it's different than what the House voted to pass, it has to go up for another vote.
It was also pointed out that the House is scheduled to be in recess until January 31, a month after the original provisions will expire and be off the books--and it's hard to extend something that is already expired (although I wouldn't put anything past this administration--I'll be so glad when W is out of office!)
In my not-so-educated opinion, it would appear that given what little I know, the extension doesn't stand much chance of passing since a recessed House would have to reconvene, debate, and vote on the changes, in less than nine days, during the holiday season.
Re:OUTGOING - Mod parent up for cleverness (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:PATRIOT act mythology (Score:3, Interesting)
Votes database (Score:3, Interesting)
Here [washingtonpost.com], for instance, is the House vote mentioned in this Slashdot blurb.
Disclaimer: I'm the Web developer who worked on this database.
I will not leave.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Dems Cave in Again (Score:3, Interesting)
The Senate Democrats showed themselves to be toothless watchdogs when they joined the 98-1 vote in favor of the original Patriot Act. It was later disclosed that most Senators joining in the vote didn't even read the legislation. And they slavishly voted in favor of the resolutions leading to the Iraq war with just as little questioning of the administration (with a very small number of honorable exceptions). Later, they trot out lame excuses: that they were deceived, they didn't know what they were voting for, they were just supporting the president in time of need, etc. This is what is wrong with the Democratic Party. They'll whine a litte, try to mitigate some effects, but they're part of the same rotten system, and are part of a herd mentality that afflicts the entire power elite in Washington. If the Republicans adovated the genocide of ten million, the Dems would offer a counter-proposal of five million, and fret about getting a Presidential assurance that only humane killing methods would be used.
They don't WANT the soap on a rope.
Re:The PATRIOT Act works (Score:3, Interesting)
Terrorists seem to be a lot more dangerous than bears.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Bend over and take it like a man, you neo-con sod! (Score:2, Interesting)
You're not hiding anything, right?
Sheep...
They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The PATRIOT Act works (Score:5, Interesting)
You may be correct. But it's still one more paving stone on one very famous road...
America is referred to as the Land of the Free for a reason-our freedoms are what makes us a great nation. Not our military, not our economic strength, not our President, good or bad, not our Congressional system, not our massive land area. Our freedoms, as enshrined in the US Constitution.
The PATRIOT Act undermines those guarantees-and therefore, no matter what else is to be said about it, it is unpatriotic in the extreme. It may be done with the best of intentions, but it is still the worst of laws. In the America that I know and love, the government is the one who follows "If you've got nothing to hide, don't hide anything", and opens its workings transparently to the American people. The government has no problem following the rules set forth for it, in terms of the due process of law and the Congressional guarantee of freedom.
I will oppose anything which will destroy this America, that I love. The PATRIOT Act is one of those things-and so, regardless of good intentions, bad intentions, or simple inattention, on the part of those who pass it, I oppose it.
Re:Democracy In Action and Inaction (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually MOST congressional districts are so gerrymandered that very few of the seats are actually seriously contested in each election. The districts have been drawn so that the party that did the gerrymandering pretty much has a lock on the seats so they pick just their man, the voters vote a party line and they usually win. Incumbents almost always win reelection if they run.
Delay in Texas was just one of the more extreme and recent examples of this. The way you seize control of the house is by winning control of state legislatures and then redistricting. You create a jigsaw puzzle of a district overloaded with democrats/blacks and the dems win that seat but you create 4 or 5 suburban districts around it where Republican's have a comfortable majority. I forget exactly but the gerrymandering in Texas gave the Republicans a lock on something like 6 additional seats for their majority. Of course the Democrats have been just as bad at gerrymandering its just they've lost the edge to Republicans lately.
All in all its extraordinarily naive to pretend that the American political system is democratic, that it represents the will of the people or that it works at all. It is a badly broken system.
The fact that the American political systems is dominated by two equally corrupt and morally bankrupt parties with a stranglehold on power means there really is no good choice when you step in to a voting booth.
It is just a very corrupted system and is getting more corrupt every day on both sides of the isle. Lobbyists, big campaign contributions and corporations have a stranglehold on decision making.
Most voters are completely snowed at election time by misinformation, negative campaigning, and misleading TV ads paid for by people who expect a payback when their man wins office. This is why the American taxpayers are footing the bill for a $240 million bridge to no where in Alaska, campaign contributions leading to pork laden payoffs to big companies and rich fat cats.
A Numbers Station? (Score:3, Interesting)
HELLO WORLD -- Station identification?
51596 51596 -- One time pad?
HELLO WORLD -- Station identification?
And then the message starts.
5 numbers per group, with each group repeated once, which is very common, as well.
This has me thinking, really. Spies used to get messages like these from shortwave radio stations because shortwave can't be traced to the recipient and shortwave radios were commonplace. But shortwave radios aren't commonplace at all any longer. A website like Slashdot, on the other hand, is all but ubiquitous. EVERYBODY reads slashdot. I realize it's probably just someone messing around, but maybe the internet has become commonplace enough that we've gone from numbers stations to numbers posts.
Re:Who's the Liar? (Score:2, Interesting)
>> If you are tapping communication to/from US, if any party is unknown, that any reasonable person would agree that there is SUBSTANTIAL likelyhood that it involves a citizen.
They could use the theory that if you are calling a private Al Qaeda number, then you are likely affiliated with them. If you are affiliated with them, you are probably not a legal citizen, etc. It doesn't guarantee you aren't... but it is in interesting (if disturbing) connection. I'd hate to accidentally dial one of the numbers =-/
I've found that "reasonable person" in court scenarios cn be a little wacky. We would need to know what was actually targetted to get a better idea of theory/intent, I think.
>>And if you do inadvertantly tap US citizen's communications, you HAVE to get the warrant (even if it is after the fact). That is what section 1805 is all about.
Where does it actually say that? I'm getting lost in alot of the cross referencing.
>> And did you read the definitions? Section 1801? It CLEARLY states that FISA DOES NOT cover US citizens (and legal aliens)
I did read it.
The part you refer to is "Agent of a foreign power", not "foreign power"
1802 (a)(1)(A)(i) states explicitly "as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3)", not 1801 (b), so CLEARLY it does cover the possibility of including some United States Persons.
Anyway, this still doesn't address the court's opinion that it is a constitutional authority of the president, which would exeed legal authority by definition.
If we don't like it, we need to ammend it.
Re:The PATRIOT Act works (Score:4, Interesting)
That's the number I get from adding up the number of casualties listed, although I ignored the couple dozen assassinations, because those are, well.. assassinations. Of course, it's not (and doesn't claim to be) an exhaustive list, and some of the numbers are "at least," so we'll generously double it and say ~14,000 people died worldwide as a result of terrorism from 1961-2003.
That's about 318 per year (at double the available statistics)
In an average year, in the US alone:
360 people are struck by lightning, about 90 fatally.
120 people die in airplane crashes
776 people die from the accidental discharge of firearms
3,840 people drown
12,760 people are poisoned
15,000 people are murdered
16,250 people are killed by a fall
40,000 die in car crashes
936,923 die from heart disease
(Sources: http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm [nsc.org], http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.ht
That's not to say that we should ignore the threat of terrorism. However, the threat should be kept in perspective, and our response should be measured accordingly.