Lawmakers Support U.S. Control Of The Internet 691
TechScam writes "A new resolution was introduced in Congress that aims to backup the Bush administration over retaining U.S. control of the Internet's core infrastructure. From the article: 'The resolution, introduced by two Republicans and one Democrat, aims to line up Congress firmly behind the Bush administration as it heads for a showdown with much of the rest of the world over control of the global computer network.'"
what drives this controversy? (Score:4, Insightful)
How did this ever even become a controversy? Isn't the internet as we know it an outgrowth and result of DARPA work? And didn't the internet essentially grow from those efforts and work?
This feels like envy and jealousy, the United States created a neat and shiny toy unnoticed by the world until it "became" the internet, and now the rest of the world wants some stewardship, whether it is warranted or not (in my opinion, not).
I don't think the U.S. is the wisest and most sage about everything, but seriously, what is considered the risk here for it maintaining stewardship. It may have misstepped once or twice but empirical evidence suggests competent management (note I didn't say the "best"), and I haven't seen any contraindications to the detriment of the rest of the world.
I think some of the threats made by the U.N., et. al., in these attempts to wrest the internet from the United States are misguided, immmature, and more seriously jeapordize the cohesive internet world wide as we know it today.
(Meanwhile, has anyone peeked at the ozone hole lately?)
Wth congress' backing... (Score:1, Insightful)
I suspect we will wind up giving them money, but in what area? Maybe we will back off the Airbus stuff at the WTO? Anyone have any thoughts?
Time to begin (Score:5, Insightful)
great (Score:5, Insightful)
what we need is to get some momentum behind a decent decentralized DNS-type system. there have been various proposals out there for a while, but there was never a strong reason to try switching... until now.
why the double standard toward globalization? (Score:3, Insightful)
U.S. Lawmakers Support U.S. Control Of $WHATEVER (Score:3, Insightful)
Stop This "Control The Internet" Nonsens (Score:5, Insightful)
This "control of the Internet" is just inflammatory rhetoric to drive the US vs. the world posts. If you stop the hyperbole, it's obvious this issue isn't going to really affect Internet users much.
Zonk, stop baiting for pagehits on this topic. Your motives are so clear, it's sickening.
Global Control of the NETWORK!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Why UN control is a BAD idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, let's pay a little extra to give each of the Billion people in Africa a laptop with wireless Internet access. And who uses the Internet the most? It's the US, is it not? So we'd be forced in to yet another form of foreign aid. Lovely.
We *did* invent the damned thing... it is ours, there's no good reason to give it away!
I don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:2, Insightful)
You are aware that the present administration has totally squandered any goodwill due to the horrible 9/11 incident? The US has very little credibility with regards to human rights and international law!
Even staunch European allies of USA are deeply concerned about the present US direction. Potential enemies are scared, so they have no choice but to develop WMD to pretect themselves. Very, very bad for all of us!!!!
Re:Political? (Score:3, Insightful)
But that's exactly the way to preface a controversial and important action. You know, so that later, there won't be any whining. You know, like how Congress saw all the same intelligence, and then voted for the action in Afghanistan and Iraq. That way, no one can complain about it only being the executive branch that... oh, wait. Never mind, people will whine no matter what we (with or without congressional activity) do about DNS authority. Since we're going to hear it anyway, we might as well take the opportunity to solidify our position on the matter, and make sure that at least most of the pieces of the 'net that we care about continue to function. Without some UN sub-committee, chaired this week by the technical experts from The Sudan, deciding that Allah doesn't the ".com" TLD should be used by women, etc.
Doing Without the UN's Vaunted Integrity (Score:2, Insightful)
How can we possibly be safe without the UN controlling the Internet?
HAhahahahahaha (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:why the double standard toward globalization? (Score:3, Insightful)
This stupid battle over "control" of the Internet is at best the EU and UN trying to compare dick sizes with the US to see who is the bigger man, and at worst an attempt by some UN nations to exercise higher levels of taxation and censorship on the Internet. Chances are it is probably a little bit of both.
Personally, I am not interested in who has the bigger cock, and I am even less interested in the UN's attempting to tax and censor the Internet. ICANN has done a fine job running things as they are and has had a strictly hands off policy. Things should remain as they are until ICANN does something wrong.
Re:Define "control". (Score:2, Insightful)
The nation/organization that should have final say at this point, is the one that does have the final say right now.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:1, Insightful)
Yea right the US is the most aggressive nation on Earth. The fact that you can make that statement with a straight face is funny.
The US has a long history of setting up democratic free nation after they defeat them. I guess the US did a great job at keeping Germany, Italy, and Japan as slave nations. What bastards.
Get a grip. I think most of the fear that other countries claim to have of the US in really a fear of themselves. They look and see how much power the US has and know how they would abuse it in the US's place. Yep the very statement that the US is the most aggressive county on earth says it all.
It really doesn't matter. The US isn't going to give it up the EU will do nothing to stop the commerce on the Internet and life will go on.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ummm, which side are you arguing? It's been stable for like 50 years now, and you want to toss it into a 'rule by committee' environment?
What a surprise! (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course they do, they are U.S. lawmakers. Ask a different Government for different results. D'oh!
No new arguments here, just another "We want it all and We deserve it" statement. Not very helpful.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Other countries are in the same situation: The 'net is a major part of these country's economic infrastructure. The US having absolute control of that much economic infrastructure would give them the same willies that your fore-fathers got. It could plausibly start messing with venezuela trade for instance.
This dispute is indicitive of the divergence of interests between US and the rest of the world. The US is going it's own route in so many ways that this dispute will be par for the course.
Cheers,
-b
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, the Internet as we know it is the result of the work of programers, engineers and other profesionals from all over the world. It may be based on DARPA's work but there's a lot in it that has nothing to do with it. Simply discarding other contributions as irrelevant to make Internet what it is today is simply an attempt to give the US more credit than they actually have.
The reason why other countries want more control has nothing to do with jealousy or envy. They simply don't want to be dependent on the US in something as important as this network is. I am quite sure that if the situation was reverted, the US would be requesting the same.
What really scares me a bit is the notion some US citizens have that other democracies in the world are not as democratic than theirs. On top of that I find it quite interesting that out of all possible motivations you could have seen behind the request of other countries to have more control, you decided that the most plausible one was jelousy and envy. That kind of reasoning can lead to no good.
That's completely subjective. I personally feel like the Internet is too big for the US alone.
Re:I want to see what China thinks about this (Score:1, Insightful)
So American companies have more to lose than European companies in any trade conflict? Somehow that doesn't seem comforting.
Black hole calling the kettle black (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you've already got a full set there.
Re:Why UN control is a BAD idea (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:5, Insightful)
It has everything to do with economic power. Many people in the U.S. would hardly notice if other countries started dropping off the internet, except, perhaps, for a small decrease in spam. In any other country, the internet would basically be useless without seeing U.S. sites.
I may be somewhat exaggerating, but the basic idea is that the U.S. holds all the cards (for now at least), and the other countries don't really have any recourse.
It's about policing thought (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
So when "journalists" say "the Internet's core infrastructure" they really mean a few lines of ASCII text. And when I say "journalists" I really mean "bunch of asshats".
Re:I want to see what China thinks about this (Score:4, Insightful)
Poison is a pretty emotive word, and I'm not convinced it applies here. Unless you see everything in black-and-white with yourself as the fearless defender of God's own American values against the heathen Socialist cheese-eating Europeans.
My guess is that in the short term the US will win this one, simply because it isn't currently worth the hassle to set up an alternative DNS system.
However, I expect that behind the scenes- or away from the present "controversy"- if the US maintains its current position, then other countries will make moves to create their own root DNS server system anyway. This will almost certainly mirror the existing root servers, and be used in conjunction with them.
Only if US control grows too great will they fully switch over to use of "their" root servers and stop mirroring. In short, people will be migrated to the "new" systems with no noticable effect on their use of the Internet, whilst allowing government X (rightly or wrongly) to control the servers better.
Personally, I think that this story is way overdone. There was nothing to stop this happening before, and if places like China felt like doing it for reasons of repression, they'd have done it anyway. That's not to mention the vagueness of the reporting; the BBC basically said "The Interweb is going to split/break", and didn't go into more detail.
WWTBLD? (Score:2, Insightful)
Let the sanctions commence... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:2, Insightful)
In my opinion, if it is going to be used by everyone, and affect everyone to varying degrees, we should probably think about letting everyone have some input. Also I think the UN might not be the best group to give more control .
Re:Why UN control is a BAD idea (Score:2, Insightful)
OK, so let's follow your logic this way:
It seems that we have a deal.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:3, Insightful)
This feels like envy and jealousy, the United States created a neat and shiny toy unnoticed by the world until it "became" the internet, and now the rest of the would wants some stewardship, whether it is warranted or not (in my opinion, not).
You're right about the origin of the Internet. But that doen't mean it belongs to the USA! I think today the Internet is becoming the part of the basic infrastructure (like water or electricity) and it belongs to all of us.
If any invention would belong only to its "original" country, nobody could use steam engines outside England, get vitamin C outside Hungary, etc. After a while inventions become international.
I don't like that US controls all of root DNS servers. But I also wouldn't like it in the hand of the EU or any other country. A fully distributed system would be a good solution. Or DNS controlled by an independent, international organization. Country independent DNS controll is our only hope to preserve the Internet as a free media.
Erm, vs. the rest of the world?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:1, Insightful)
The US is not perfect, but we don't behead people, nor blow up crowds of people. What would you propose we do, bury our heads in the sand and pretend that there are some insane people in the Middle East who want to bring terror to the states. Do you want something like Israel going on in the States?
No, that is why you take the fight to the enemy.
WMD are not going to be used by a country against another country. It would have happened in the 60's. What the real threat now is the technology and materials being available to radical groups to build their own bombs, or these groups getting a working bomb from a nuclear country.
Take your leftist, black and white view outta here.
Re:Why UN control is a BAD idea (Score:1, Insightful)
Oh, and when did the need for "universal access" to the internet outweigh the need to eat, or the need to survive malaria, or the need to remove corrupt governments? This is a power play by the UN; plain and simple.
~Arik
Bush is irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, whether Bush backs down or not is irrelevant. Despite the views apparently held in the White House and among a disturbingly large proportion of US citizens, the US has no authority over anyone outside its own borders. If the rest of the world wants to run its own alternative DNS system, then realistically there is pretty much jack the US can do about it, and if it tries to play the isolation/fragmentation game, it's going to miss the rest of the world a lot more than the rest of the world misses it. The only constructive thing the US administration can do is try to talk/bribe them out of it diplomatically and/or hope they decide that it's not really a good idea after all and drop it.
Personally, I have mixed opinions on this one. On general principles I think the US should be forced to relinquish absolute control, particularly since it has demonstrated a willingness to abuse the position by effectively vetoing the .xxx TLD. However, I maintain a healthy scepticism about the UN, which lots of US-based people seem to assume is the only option on the table here despite at least four serious proposals having come out of the EU already.
Ok, but we get to take back all engines (Score:3, Insightful)
Or better yet, force the designers to include remote control kill-switches that allow the German government to shut down each one. Don't worry, we'd never abuse that.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:4, Insightful)
So semantically you are full of crap.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow your view of history is odd at best. The UN had no power that the US didn't give it. The UK was still getting Lend-Lease aid for years after the war. The rest of the western Europe was in shambles and living off the Marshal plan. The US had nothing to do with the building of the Berlin wall except that it kept at least part of Berlin free. I suggest you look into the history of the Berlin Airlift.
I had no idea that Europe had done as much "revisionist" history as you seem to indicate. Your fears of the US are grounded in your own actions and history. As you said the rebuilding of after WWII was totally self interest. Yes. The US felt that free and independent nations where more in the US's self interest than slave states.
It is understandable really. The countries in the EU do not want to remember that they owe just about everything they now have to the power and honor of the US. It is upsetting so they change history. Play down the importance of post war aid, ignore the huge number of people that did nothing or helped the Nazis, and inflate the importance of their own "freedom" fighters.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:2, Insightful)
Are you behind the London Hilton? (Score:5, Insightful)
UN ITU is just a meeting place for government technical people. If they don't meet there under the UN, they'll meet at the London Hilton, or the Savoy but whereever they meet and whoever books the meeting room, it will be the same governments and the same technical people. It's not a *UN* resolution or *UN* control, since a UN is just a bunch of governments in a meeting.
You might not like some of the Governments sitting at the meeting table, but they're just one voice each in a big table, and some of them feel the same way about you!
That system works in all other telecoms, including the wires that carry the internet, so why wouldn't it work for DNS?
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Doing Without the UN's Vaunted Integrity (Score:2, Insightful)
The UN has made plenty of mistakes, I accept that. However, break the name down: "United Nations". It isn't an us and them thing, it's us and *us*. No, that doesn't mean that you'll agree with everything the rest of the UN says, or that the rest of the UN will agree with you. But current behavious looks approximately like the state of California deciding that the US government isn't worth paying any attention to.
Each UN member should feel free to disagree with the rest of the UN, and to reflect that in policy. I don't believe the UN has ever been about denying the sovereignty of its constituent nations. But for don't forget that each UN member, in conjunction with the rest *is* the UN, until they make a decision to leave.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:1, Insightful)
A more accurate statement of the issue is that some US citizens recognize that other democracies in the world as not as free as theirs.
It is indeed the case that other democracies in the world are more democratic than the US. That's the problem with democracies; it is entirely too easy for the people (and their elected leaders) to vote away their freedom, as every pure democracy has done throughout history.
Freedom in the US has survived for 229 years precisely because its founders created anti-democratic institutions whose purpose is to prevent that from happening.
Put another way: democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on what to have for lunch, and freedom is when a well-armed sheep contests the vote. The effective outcome in the US is that the wolves decide that mutton is not at all tasty; and if Brother Sheep wants to eat grass by himself, that just means more venison for wolves.
With respect to the issue of Internet governance (other other international governance issues), the American people have an extremely well-founded suspicion that the inevitable outcome would be the deprivation of their freedoms, all democratically voted on by other nations of the world.
As matters stand today, any vicious murderer can escape the death penalty in the US; all he has to do is get to Canada or any EU country, since these countries will not extradite until the death penalty is waived. Worse, countries like France lionize American murderers such as Ira Einhorn.
Re:Stop This "Control The Internet" Nonsens (Score:3, Insightful)
What sort of harm could they do to non-Americans? Forgetting for a moment that fragmenting of the DNS system would harm us all lets take a look at a recent post about Estonia using online voting [slashdot.org] in their latest election as an example. If you read this article [csmonitor.com] you'll see that their government has moved much of their infrastructure online. Imagine what could happen to a country like Estonia if someone pulled their root server plug. Sure, they could set up their own DNS, but that would take time and when much of the civil infrastructure has been moved to the Internet time is a luxury you don't really have. Then of course there are the commercial concerns. Banking, airlines, telecommunications, pretty much everything has become dependant on the Internet... and Estonia is just one example. Major infrastructure is moving online in almost every country. Use IP addresses you say? Quick, without looking it up, what's the IP address of your bank's web server?
Controlling the root servers gives the US a mighty big stick to weild should it ever be tempted to do so and the current administration's handling of foreign affairs hasn't exactly instilled the international community with confidence. Even long-time allies are right to be concerned, after all if the US isn't going to weild its big stick why is it so anxious to hang on to it?
43 countries are more free than the US (Score:1, Insightful)
Mainly due to the imprisonment of New York Times reported Judith Miller and judical action that is undermining the privacy of journalistic sources. Federal courts are getting increasingly bold about subpoenaing journalists and trying to force them to disclose their confidential sources.
US blocking .xxx TLD, but not .xxx.${cc} (Score:5, Insightful)
So, for example, if those wonderful bastions of free speech, the French, wanted to, they could make an .xxx.fr domain. Whatever interference is exerted by USGOV to prevent .xxx, there also must be hundreds of other countries preventing .xxx.$(cc) as well.
I personally oppose .xxx, but not for the reason you might expect. I think people (including my own brother [stbi.edu]) who demand that the Internet be made safe for the Precious Children<tm>, perhaps by ghettoizing 'adult content', have it backwards. The Internet was built by and for adults, and the presumption should be that a site is for adults unless otherwise specified. I'm all in favor of .kids or other mechanisms to 'whitelist' G-rated content, but want no part of a system that requires consenting adults to do anything to keep kids out. That's their parents' job.
Re:43 countries are more free than the US (Score:1, Insightful)
Nor should we. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nor should we. Every country in the world has been assigned a 2-letter top domain, and we should be using them. Rather than creating new 3-letter TLDs we should be adding ".us" to the current ones. Those ".com"s that are not in the USA probably already have a matching address in their own country's TLD anyway. Sometimes it redirects to the .com (microsoft.ca redirects to microsoft.com/canada) and sometimes the redirection works the other way (google.com redirects to google.ca if you try to connect from Canada).
Once the whole world isn't fighting over the same TLD there won't be any call for the USA to give up control because it would only control the ".us" domain anyway.
This fight is about who gets to profit from issuing and owning "vanity plates".
Re: .xxx TLD...? (Score:5, Insightful)
The "smut" is already on the web
if you have all the smut under
lets assume
easy to find means dollars
the entities(liraries, schools, families) that DON'T want that smut on their computer screen can easily filter that out and sowith protect the innocent eyes of those they want to.
cheers
Re:Free spech... (Score:2, Insightful)
-Iraq commits genocide, barely makes the news.
-US soldier kills innocent people by accident; whole world hears about it and screams at the US.
-China censors its Internet; UN does nothing nor says anything.
-US invades a country for invalid reasons and people flip out; they have good reason too.
- However, France has hundreds to thousands of troops in the Middle East for even less reasons then the US; barely even heard about.
-France was almost charged with genocide, and is the reason why they stopped their nuclear testing; barely makes the news.
- Women stoned to death in Iran because it is believed she cheated on her husband; not a single word of it reaches anybody.
- US troops die in a bombing and the whole world tells the US, "hey thats what you get"
- China imprisons/kills someone who attempts free speech on the Internet; no one even knows his name.
No country in innocent. Countries all across Europe and Asia do evil things everyday. The difference is that those countries will imprison reporters who say anything about it. In America, the government doesn't do that and when they do the public freak out on them. See the difference. Europe has done just as many horrific things as the US you just never hear about them. Socialism is a wonderful thing no?? Your country could be killing hundreds of innocents right now and no one would no. The US does it and the whole world knows. That seems a bit unfair, no?
Don't be so effing arrogant. (Score:4, Insightful)
- Television standards should be controlled by the Scottish Parliament.
- Postage regulations are controlled by the British parliament.
- Ballooning is controlled by the French (even in the US!)
-
Stop being so fucking paranoid about the Internet. So DARPA funded it years ago. Big fricking deal. We've moved on since then. Get over it and deal with it.
Re:DNS is NOT the Internet! (Score:3, Insightful)
How sure are you that your senator understands the difference? Maybe they are indeed advocating controlling the internet and not just the DNS servers.
Re:Let the sanctions commence... (Score:3, Insightful)
So just reach for the localy made soda instead of coke and locally made shoes instead of nike. You will be helping your local companies grow and you will be helping to get US policy changed.
It's not that hard people, how you spend your money is more important then how you vote or how you protest.
But it says in this here bible ... (Score:2, Insightful)
In any case, you can't have it both ways. If the internet is just another utility as many proponents claim, then it is about as interesting as gas, plumbing or electricity. By this argument, moving some aspects of internet regulation to an international body isn't remotely controversial and not much different to the international postal and telephone agreements that have been in force for years. These work well and so unremarkably that no one gives them a second thought. Why should the internet be any different? No one is suggesting that the internet be given away or placed in the hands of a cosmic villain.
On the other hand, if the internet is a some kind of special case and qualitatively different by an order of magnitude from simple utilities, they let's hear some reasoned argument from the US establishment instead of jingoism (and a lot less hype from the big IT companies about a global inforamtion economy).
Alas, it looks as if this is developing in a way all too typical of the current Administration. We begin with intransigence and hostility. This gives way to bad-tempered haggling which eventually results in a sour US withdrawal from its position. Eventually there is a compromise. Everyone is left feeling crap and the US, most likely, is left with less than it would have achieved had it been a little more thoughtful and subtle in the first place.
Some form of international settlement for the regulation of the internet is absolutely inevitable, imho. Unless you are a flat-earther, the only next question is how best to achieve this. Unfortunately it looks as if the US Administration is settling for flag-waiving. I don't think this has yet been backed up with fire-breathing quotations from the bible, but it probably will be. It ain't gonna fly.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:3, Insightful)
What? You don't agree? Then don't claim ownership over something which you didn't pay for.
Oh, you mean you were talking about DNS servers? You know what they are? They are an agreement from historical reasons. The USA is very nice to have covered the nominal costs of running the DNS servers compared to their value, which is that people use those ip numbers as dns servers traditionally. It's like a company buying another company which had 200k users. The users are value too! Guess what, who wouldn't like to have more than 3 billion (just a wild guess) users in their control, if even the control is limited? Pretty much everyone would volunteer to pay the fish and chips costs of keeping DNS servers online for having the power that historical fact represents. So, no. You're not doing anyone a favor by maintaining those servers, since the main benefits fall in your government's hand. You don't own the root dns servers either, since they are just ip addresses, apart from the nominal costs the physical servers represent which we discussed earlier. IP adresses by convention. Just like a well known brand name. In itself, it has value. Who are the costumers? The internet users. Who owns the brand? Noone. And everyone using the internet. The owners of the physical infrastructure.
With this congress vote, I think the USA lawmakers are acting like lemmings, or like in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, burning down the bridges behind themselves. It's a gamble. You only do that sensibly if the stakes are high, when you're sure you can win, and even then no sane people would do that. Well, i've got newsflash for you all, the USA might be the #1 country in the world atm, but that is just not enough if you got the rest of the world against you. Ignoring and using pure force, well, you'll be given your own medicine soon that way and i bet you won't like it.
Re: .xxx TLD...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: .xxx TLD...? (Score:5, Insightful)
And what exactly are you going to do. Force everyone who serves up porn to move the
The
Max
Re:Time to begin (Score:5, Insightful)
I really do wonder what people want to achieve by this pissing contest of insulting each other. The original network may have been developed by DARPA and U.S. universities, but internet in today's sense would not exists and have the importance that it has without the international participation. Compare that with the original closed networks of e.g. AOL or Bitnet or Compuserve (if you even remember what it was like). However the governance of the network is still (mainly for historical reasons) in the hands of one country, even though others are contributing at least an equal or even larger share than U.S (remember, internet is not only the English-speaking part hosted in the U.S.). This is the problem.
The fundamental issue is that the internet as we know it may stop to exist because of political decision. It is not an attempt to usurp control from the U.S., however ICANN was source of too many controversies in the past and especially the non-American networks were always getting the short end of the stick - guess why. It is used as a club to stifle the competition by the large American network operators, e.g. Verizon. Why would they allow somebody else to operate a root nameserver? They could lose the very profitable monopoly for doing this. Of course that they would block any attempt at doing so through ICANN or lobbying in Congress.
Add a fundamentalist administration which pulls out strawmen such as China or North Korea being able to control internet and in the name of democracy the basic democratic principle of fairness gets trampled. This "patriotic" flag-waving has of course nothing to do with the real issues, but it gets presented as a reason why not to do anything to change status quo (and upset the profitable business of the large telcos).
Re:Time to begin (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the rest of the world seems to be fine with things just the way they are. The only people who object to it are a few politicians and their brain-dead supporters. In fact, I'm willing to bet that a poll conducted pretty much anywhere in the world would indicate that the vast majority of folks don't even know this "issue" exists. The internet works just fine for them, and I doubt they could see any reason for changing things, or would even care.
It will stop all the spam from mouthbreathing Comcast users
As opposed to the mouth-breathers who use other ISPs, both in the US and Europe? It's painfully obvious to anyone with a few neurons to rub together that Europe has just as many idiots as America does; stupidity isn't a specific national trait.
The US will wall itself off more and more
Riiiight. You mean a few spoiled little brats who can't have ICANN will wall themselves off from the rest of us, to the great anger of their own citizenry (excepting the Chinese, who're already doing it). Good call, that; let's see how long the English, or Danish, or Hungarians put up with politicians grandstanding when it means they can no longer reach any of their favorite sites. That'll put an end to this crap right quick.
the UN has to come in and sort it out.
That would be a first for the UN.
Max
Re:A Non-US Opinion (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole issue seems a bit pointlessly theoretical now, however it would be naive to think the issue won't arise in the distant future (i.e. sometime over the next 50 years). Particularly in the case of emerging superpower like China and the EU.
I think the U.S. lawmakers are missing the point of the technology and of international politics entirely. There is nothing the U.S. can do to stop these Countries/Unions just using there own alternate servers/protocols which would in the long run be bad for everyone.
Such fragmentation is in a sense the one flaw with the internet which could destroy it as the international network we currently know. Just like other international treaties, internet control should therefor be handed to the U.N. so that no country can shout 'Foul play' at the U.S. and try and split the internet up which is surely the most likely scenario (over the distant future) with the current setup.
fear of the other (Score:3, Insightful)
"Turning the Internet over to countries with problematic human-rights records, muted free-speech laws, and questionable taxation practices will prevent the Internet from remaining the thriving medium it has become today"
The US has one of the most REGRESSIVE tax systems in the developed world, tax cuts to the wealthy with giveaways to companies that do not pay taxes while public programs get cut like HUD. Plus I guess we can forget the whole firehoses and attack dogs thing since that was in the past, no human-rights issues there. Prisons for profit filled up with minorities as street-sweeping by the police, yadda yadda.
And for free-speech, in the US it isn't free and it has already been bought by those who own all the major media outlets.
We don't want to turn over internet speech over to the Chinese but do we want to turn it over to the US Christian Right. They exchange the idea of censoring ideas from the west for censoring sexual material. I'm sure the very moral people can make that choice easily but have we put them in charge of our speech.
If the people who actually built the internet we making the decisions of its future I would be OK with that, but I cannot turn it over to politicians or companies that have bought up all the votes to do whatever they want.
life sure is getting monotonous (Score:1, Insightful)
In short, I don't think I've ever known a topic cause the same ground to be covered so many times that I memorise every single angle, and I'm including the age old Linux-on-the-Desktop argument in that as well. I wish there could be some mass slashdot boycott of this story. Not for any hugely idealogical reason, it's just boring. Maybe just you karma-rich moderator types, who are the most likely to read some random AC post anyway - you guys could just stop moderating these stories. Sure, they could probably tweak some balance setting to keep a front of normality, since slashdot runs like a puto mmorpg, but with a bit of luck it would bother them too much and they'd tire of the story.
Lets keep something we invented for once! (Score:2, Insightful)
We invented the dam thing, we should be in control of it. If they want to split off and make their own nets so be it. Everyone wants a peice of America. Actually everyone wants to chip away a peice of America. We've lost so many other industries... why not hold on to the one tech industry giant that we invented?
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:5, Insightful)
From the first one (China):
Our government is planning to make new relevant policies and legislations, and making its
efforts toward carrying out more practical and effective ways by using its legislative power
and jurisdiction to create a healthy, stable and sustainable developing net atmosphere.
What kind of legislation? Blocking sites with the word "democracy" in it? China's apparent desire to make the Internet "healthy" is a joke.
To sum up, Internet governance is a system engineering, which need to construct an integrated
system via the efforts from various layers of management in the whole human society. It needs
the participations and support from all the people to protect Internet ethics and develop
Internet civilization. Only in this way, could the Internet information society serve human
being on economic, social, cultural and other aspects.
What in the world? I've got a shiny nickel for anyone that really understands that. "Internet eithics" indeed. This paper contains absolutely nothing of any value. How applicable to the UN.
The second document is almost as good. You can sum it up with the following:
1) Wah wah wah. The US has control over the DNS root servers.
2) It costs a lot to build an infrastructure.
3) Spam is bad.
4) IPv6 is good.
5) Too much English on the Internet
6) The Internet will break any second if the UN doesn't step in.
I have yet to see a valid argument for the UN control of the root DNS servers. Documents such as these are a perfect example of using a lot of words and not saying anything at all.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nor should we. (Score:3, Insightful)
Except, as the status quo stands, the government of the USA[1] controls the servers that decide which server has the authority to handle requests for country code domains. Why should the US government decide who handles requests to .uk (for example)? In theory, there is nothing stopping them from deciding that France should have backed them in the Iraq war, pointing the .fr SOA record at their own server, and redirecting all traffic for .gov.fr IPs via their own service. The current administration probably wouldn't do that. The next probably wouldn't either. What about the one after that? Or the one after that?
In my estimation, this entire `problem' could be significantly reduced if every DNS entry contained an embedded signature, allowing the entire chain to be verified back to the original root entry. This would allow anyone to run a root server, as long as they kept it in sync with the official root entries, and allow anyone who trusts ICANN[3] to trust the results. Of course, Verisign would hate this, since it would make signed SSL certificates worthless - you could just embed the key in the DNS record, signed with the private key associated with the public key in your SOA record.
[1] Previously they had agreed to hand over complete control to ICANN - hardly my favourite organisation, but at least one which pretends to be international and impartial - an agreement that they recently stated they no longer intended to honour, which sparked this whole debate.
[2] Possibly not the best example of a trustworthy organisation.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:2, Insightful)
As to blowing up crowds of people: Falujah.
My views, too, are leftist: liberal, to be precise - but over here, that's not an insult
Who is complaining then? (Score:3, Insightful)
"Waiting For The Valerie Plame Wilson Grand Jury: The Big Question Is Whether Dick Cheney Was a Target" [findlaw.com]
"2 Brits nabbed with $3 trillion in fake US fed notes" [abs-cbnnews.com]
Robert
Re:Doing Without the UN's Vaunted Integrity (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, so...
Add that to the fact that the U.S. has been running the Internet's DNS since its inception, and you're both petty and wrong.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:3, Insightful)
This (from TFA):
"Turning the Internet over to countries with problematic human-rights records, muted free-speech laws, and questionable taxation practices will prevent the Internet from remaining the thriving medium it has become today," said California Republican Rep. John Doolittle in a statement.
If anybody fails to see the irony there, I can't help.
Re:Please... (Score:3, Insightful)
The point is that who created it is not in discussion here. We are talking about the Internet as a whole. And DNS is a big part of that. You are afraid of other countries controlling the internet just as much as the rest of the world is afraid of the US doing so, with the difference that the US would not have anyone to tell them not to do it, while the rest of the world would take care of regulating each other in that respect.
The question is: will the US take into account my rights as a foreinger when they make their decisions? Or would they promptly ignore them if my rights collided with the rights of some american or with the government? Is freedom only important when US citizens are involved: why shouldn't the rest of the world be free to choose wether they want an
Seriously, this is not about making decisions for Americans. We don't care about censoring you... we don't want you to censor us. IMO we have the tools to bring forward a decentralized DNS system in which each government has the right to filter what they don't want for their citizens, while not having any power at all when it comes to other countries. How can this be bad for you?
After all the US government is not sovereign where I live, so why should I live by their rules.
Just sit down for a second and think about it. You even agree with what I'm saying to some extent when you declare that you don't want other governments messing with what you do online. Guess what: we don't want that either.
Care to explain this to me? Seriously, I fail to see what makes a US citizen "more free" than I am, but it seems like you know better... so I guess you can give me some examples that clearly demonstrate your point.
Re: .xxx TLD...? (Score:1, Insightful)
>And what exactly are you going to do. Force everyone who serves up porn to move the
You are jumping to a conclusion, and if you think about it, you might admit you are wrong/
He said it would be EASIER to filter out. Do you have ANY IDEA how large a memory table it takes to filter out KNOWN
Along comes a new TLD and you can match it with *.xxx. You will STILL be using a bunch of memory blocking
Doesn't this sound EASY? You're talking 1 rule. Perhaps you would block a non-porn
No one said that the creation of
Re:A Non-US Opinion (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the very point, they don't need permission! .tw domains, it would be bad for taiwan and the entire world if half the internet (i.e. the west) see one set of .tw domains and the other (the middle and far east for example) see another set.
But if countries like China setup their own systems without the "permission" of the U.S. it is unlikely that the competing systems will interact the way they do now. With the example above of
"How does handing control over to the U.N. prevent this problem?"
It may not be a failsafe, utopian solution but the U.N. has maintained peace among the world's most powerful nations/unions for 60 years now. Historically that is pretty much unheard of. The U.N. has for decades been dealing with far more contentious issues than root server control and so should be quite equipped for the task of overlooking ICANN.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:1, Insightful)
I will give you two much more plausible motivations:
1) taxes
2) censorship
Re:Ok, but we get to take back all engines (Score:1, Insightful)
European Governments trying to be a bully (Score:1, Insightful)
Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Anti-Jewish, Pro-Liberal crap from Euro governments. It's really sad.
Re:Free spech... (Score:2, Insightful)
I hardly think you can blame Europe or whatever for your own countries ignorant & impotent media coverage of the world.
Not to mention that for the last 40 years the American propoganda machine (hollywood & media) have been screaming to the western world that America is the 'leader of the free world' the 'freest and fairest country in the world' and 'better than your countries', etc
Btw nice tactic associating the idea of press cencorship with socialism and European countries without actually saying it, learn that from your current political administration? The press is just as free to report on the government in France as it is in Australia, the US, New Zealand, the UK, Germany, Sweden and most of the other western coutries in the world.
It saddens me that you actually seem to believe the words you speak, the pooor US gets bullied so much in the big bad world, boohoo. Seriously, can't you see why the things are the way they are? If someone continually carries on about how they are the greatest person in the world, better than everyone else and makes disturbingly ignorant arguments about other people and why he is better than them, normal people will think that person is a wanker. See what i'm getting at? That person is the US for the last 40 years.
This line is probably the best:
"your country could be killing hundreds of innocents right now and no one would no"
You mean no one in the US right, because the US media wont give it air time? Please dont take this the wrong way but get it through your thick bloody head that there is people outside the US that *will* know, and that it's not other countries fault if *your* insipid whorish media won't give world news more air time.
Your entire argument is that because *you* don't hear about world issues that means every other country must be living under some jackboot of oppression. I should feel annoyed at such stupidity, but i've come to accept it as just typical American IgnoranceTM.
Re:Please... (Score:3, Insightful)
Can anybody here on
Re:US blocking .xxx TLD, but not .xxx.${cc} (Score:3, Insightful)
An intersting hypothesis, but factually incorrect.
DNS is just a way to find computers on the network. it is not a mind control protocol. If you think otherwise, raise my arm.
The creation of a new network resource does nor force anybody to do anything. Presumably some people will want to buy
What exactly is wrong with that? Choices are good, no? In other words, should we listen to YOU instead of THEM? Or are we all grown ups that can decide and act for ourselves, making choices as we se fit?
Re:HAhahahahahaha (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps they know something about the state of their oil reserves that you don't. Perhaps they feel that in the upcoming peak oil scenario their best bet is to a) have alternate sources of energy for themselves as to make maximum use of exportable black gold, b) have nukes to defend themselves from the inevietable, desperate attempts at grabbing that oil by the addicted and suffering from severe withdrawal effects, junkie Western countries and China to boot, c) are afraid of their Israeli and US enemies who have both nukes and have been proven beyond any doubt to be regional aggressors, complete with use of the utterly prepostrous, Hitler-like excuse of "pre-emption". Not to mention the past history of US encouragement of Saddam's war on Iran and to begin with, CIA's destruction of the democratic government of Iran and replacement of thereof with the Shah. Just you ponder this wee, little, and quite incomplete list before you start calling people Jackasses, you uninformed troglodyte.
Re:US blocking .xxx TLD, but not .xxx.${cc} (Score:3, Insightful)
Separation of religion and state is very strict in France, maybe even stricter than in the US. In both countries this derives from the time of enlightenment and the respective revolutions in these countries.
And I'm sure you know enough of recent history to understand why the Germans are a bit sensitive about hate speech and ideologies like Nazism. I wouldn't like to hear the screaming and whining if Germany suddenly started to ignore the problem called Nazism (which, unfortunately, is alive and well all over the world).
Sure, both of these examples are extreme cases, but perfectly understandable when you know where these nations are coming from. It's not like Europe is on the verge of collapsing into some dark age where free speech is suppressed. I'm starting to get really tired of Americans who cling onto their naive worldview where the only place with freedom is the US of A. Heck, you have your own restrictions, we have our own. In some cases you have more freedom, in some cases we Europeans are freer. Big deal, I can assure you both you and I would feel quite free in both places.
Re:what drives this controversy? (Score:3, Insightful)
What is this 'anti-American' tag that some Americans try to apply to anyone that argues with them? Sounds pretty paranoid.
I agree with what he said, in that
Up until your last paragraph I supported your response to his post but I get so bored with that 'anyone that is against me must be a racist' b.s. I was even glad that you quoted 'invented' as it was a multi-national project which many of my old collegues worked on at the Royal Military College of Science in the UK. It does get tedious listening to so many Americans claim so many things that were never really theirs.
Re: .KKK TLD...? (Score:2, Insightful)
keep them where you can see them
instead of make them hide
Only a matter of time (Score:2, Insightful)
While I do understand the US reticence to permit the UN to 'control' aspects of the Internet, particularly as the UN does not come across as particularly efficient/pro-active/effective, it is surely inevitable that either a global body is created to administer dispute resolution etc or one day the network will fracture.
When China, India etc become fully connected and their economies overtake that of the US, which they inevitably will, probably within our lifetimes, they will have little need to allow the US to control such a key resource.
I hope that a middle way can be found before then otherwise I can imagine rival networks emerging.