Deadline Looming for Microsoft in Antitrust Case 397
gaijincory writes "The International Herald Tribune reminds us that the end of the month is Microsoft's deadline to comply with the European Commission's antitrust ruling. The fine for non-compliance? A cool $5 million per day."
Cost of doing business? (Score:5, Insightful)
This the same EU? (Score:1, Insightful)
The EU is not a country, it is a conglomeration of countries. What is their actual power to enforce these laws? Especially seeing as how banning Microsoft on a continent-wide level would be an infringement of each country's right to self-determination.
I think that someone is going to get a huge wakeup call and I doubt it is going to be Microsoft this time.
Re:Cost of doing business? (Score:5, Insightful)
The hit on Microsoft's bottom line and the failure to meet earnings projections would have adverse effects on its share price.
Re:Cost of doing business? (Score:4, Insightful)
5% of global sales? They'd be fine then... not to mention the fact that that is the maximum fine. It's just like getting the maximum fine for graffiti on trains - you never get it.
Way too little (Score:4, Insightful)
A formal letter? When did the world officially lose all its balls.
Unfortunately $5 million a day to Microsoft doesn't really mean much. A real way to get their attention would be to tell them comply or peddle your crap OS elsewhere.
Re:Cost of doing business? (Score:3, Insightful)
I can see that riseing if they refuse to comply
Ofcourse if they continue to stand oposed to the law then i am very sure the EU will have no other choice but to enforce the compliance , companys can not be allowed to abuse the law
If the EU does nothing it sets a rather dangerous precedent in allowing a company to flaunt the law , If microsoft refuses to comply after one year i can honestly see the EU making moves to break MS europe into a seperate company
expect to see... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cost of doing business? (Score:1, Insightful)
Your sig: "I'm an artist"
Safe bet you're speaking from personal experience?
Re:expect to see... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Funny thing is... (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't matter if the average European citizen doesn't care about this, or haven't even heard about it. The European Commission aren't involved in a popularity contest, they are supposed to enforce EU law.
Why would you buy a copy of a 'crippled' XP over a full-featured one.
"Vote Cuthulu. This time, why settle for the lesser evil?"
Its not like you cant just disable the features you don't want in XP (well, for the most part).
It is the "most part" that is a problem. Also, they are using their OS monopoly to also gain a online media monopoly. This is illegal.
Even the biggest Linux Zealot would need to admit they have come a long way since Windows 95 and are making improvements in terms of security, etc...
This is NOT about the quality of the products, this is about predatory business practices designed to enforce an unfair monopoly and kill innovation and competition.
Re:This the same EU? (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the EU's inability to get their member states to vote favorably on the Constitution, many believe this has more to do with Europeans' sentiments about their national leaders which are pushing the Constitution through.
Re:Funny thing is... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is almost like a personal vendetta on Microsoft directly from the EU.
Excuse me? Forcing Microsoft to comply with a court order that resulted from them losing a lawsuit because they broke the law is some kind of personal vendetta?
Just because the EU doesn't roll over and let them off like the USA, it doesn't mean they have a personal vendetta. They just make sure people pay for their crimes, even if they are rich.
I wish the EU would, uh, 'bugger off' and leave MS alone to correct their ways.
Why on earth would Microsoft do that? Does a thief stop stealing if he knows he's not going to get punished?
Even the biggest Linux Zealot would need to admit they have come a long way since Windows 95 and are making improvements in terms of security, etc...
This isn't about software quality. This is about illegal anti-competitive actions.
last missing lines (Score:1, Insightful)
Judge: Ok, this antitrust case is over. Next.
Re:This the same EU? (Score:5, Insightful)
If the countries couldn't say "no" then there would be zero point to the process. And you're right, the countries probably will say "no".
The EU is not a country, it is a conglomeration of countries.
Agreed. So Microsoft are pissing off a conglomeration of countries that form the largest single market in the world.
What is their actual power to enforce these laws?
The pooled sovereignty of multiple countries... remember your previous sentence?
Especially seeing as how banning Microsoft on a continent-wide level would be an infringement of each country's right to self-determination.
Don't be absurd, it would be an expression of their right to self determination just like any other multi-lateral arrangements they enter into. Not that Microsoft would get "banned", just compelled to obey by whatever means it takes including power provided by new legislation if it comes to that - playing chicken with governments on that level is just stupid.
I think that someone is going to get a huge wakeup call and I doubt it is going to be Microsoft this time.
In your dreams, sure.
Most likely payment method... (Score:5, Insightful)
Kroes, the European competition commissioner. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And at that rate... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cost of doing business? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not even rich and powerful graffiti artists with a history of giving the judge the finger?
Compliance (Score:4, Insightful)
First, and foremost, as a previous post said, they simply cant afford a 5 mil $ a day hit to the bottom line. I doubt they make 5 million+ a day in europe, and even if they did, not enough of it would be from their practices that they're being asked to stop.
Second, and almost equally important is a show of good faith that the EU wants to see from them. If they were to not comply, and/or perhaps refuse to pay the fine (extremely unlikely) that would end up with a lot of powerful people angry at them pretty quickly. My guess is that the US state department would lean on MSFT to cooperate w/ the EU. The U.S. simply cant afford to have one of it's premier companies acting in bad faith, as it would reflect poorly on Americans (whether that should be the case is another argument, but the fact is that many foriegners view America in part through it's major corporations, i.e. MSFT, McDonalds, CocaCola, etc)
From a buisness perspective, I expect them to have whatever needs to be done done by the deadline, or very close to it.
On the curiosity side, would someone care to outline exactly what it is the EU is demanding that MSFT do to 'comply'?
Re:Explain to me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Explain to me... (Score:4, Insightful)
The main difference between the bundling of applications that goes into the making of any Linux distribution and the bundling of applications and services Microsoft does with Windows (XP especially) is that the bundling Microsoft does is irreversible, you cannot remove Windows Media Player without it seriously hindering the system, you cannot remove Internet Explorer without doing likewise. Windows Messenger often bothers many newcomers to XP who are unaware of how to remove it completely (Granted, a Google search will cure most any problem like that).
I would not mind at all that Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger, or any of their other products, so long as they provide the ability to easily and safely remove those and not damage the system's base. They made the OS require all these applications as dependencies, they're more than able to re-work the sytem to accommodate competitors and make it much easier for them to settle in.
Another thing is that we have yet to see a Linux distributor sued for anti-competitive practices that are illegal.
Re:Why exactly.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Is an OEM free to sell a Windows computer with a competing media player instead of Windows Media Player?
Re:Why exactly.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Micro$oft: Master of Deception (Score:2, Insightful)
WTF? you link to an entirely irrelevant article.
The spell Microsoft with a $ character
Then put together an entirely illogical argument: perhaps the applicants weren't *good* enough to work at Microsoft? Perhaps the students at MIT didn't *want* to work at Microsoft.
Then you get modded as "Interesting". Mods: what'cha smoking?
Re:Bill Will Fill (Score:0, Insightful)
Attack the man on his evil corporate practices, not being a smart citizen.
Re:This the same EU? (Score:5, Insightful)
Would you care to elaborate? I found it inspiring, not as stirring as the American Declaration of Independence, but good nonetheless, and clear when it dealt with the inevitably complex relations between still sovereign states. From the preamble...
Our Constitution
-- Thucydides II, 37
Conscious that Europe is a continent that has brought forth civilisation; that its inhabitants, arriving in successive waves from earliest times, have gradually developed the values underlying humanism: equality of persons, freedom, respect for reason,
Drawing inspiration from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, the values of which, still present in its heritage, have embedded within the life of society the central role of the human person and his or her inviolable and inalienable rights, and respect for law,
Believing that reunited Europe intends to continue along the path of civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world,
Convinced that, while remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of Europe are determined to transcend their ancient divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a common destiny,
Convinced that, thus "united in its diversity", Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with due regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future generations and the Earth, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,
It is not the blueprint for a Utopia, but then I don't see any but failed Utopias looking around, do you? I'm paying attention, and I'm going to say yes. Personally I think you're playing to the gallery. Just what would a your constitution for a continent with 25 different countries to be united (some of which don't like the idea of a federal parliament at all) look like?
Now you can quote some section of legalese from within the 200 pages which you feel is opaque, but in general I felt it was perfectly readable by ordinary citizens of the union when taken together - that to me is a great achievement, particularly considering it's been written in several languages at once and attempts to integrate treaties going back 40 years. Writing a constitution for a group of countries merging is not the same as writing one for a newly formed country and that is reflected in the length and complexity.
I don't think Europe is yet ready for this kind of ambitious integration, but it will happen at some point in the future.
Re:Cost of doing business? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sadly? Hardly, if it insulates us from the kind of corporate state America is becoming. However, I'd dispute that it will insulate us perfectly - we also have something of a tradition of following the US culturally in recent times (well, more the UK than Europe as a whole, but it still has influence, even in France).
"Changing how Europe deals with issues takes a lot more time, effort, money and public support than Microsoft has at its disposal."
Indeed, but look how narrow a squeak the issue of Software Patents was - had Poland (alone!) not stood up and said "This is fucking undemocratic" we'd likely have SW patents enshrined in EU law by now.
The trouble is that the Euopean Union has a lot of power held by unelected bureaucrats - in the US corporations had to effectively merge with the GOP and still had to get elected to secure power - they had to take over the entire government system. In the EU, they'll only have to buy out a few, key, unelected officials and there'll be no way for "the public" to meaningfully and forcefully oppose decisions, short of armed insurrection.
"One person may be able to be bought out (See Ireland), but it takes a lot of effort to change the opinion of the entire system."
Microsoft (AFAIAA) didn't do anything as crass as pay off the EU president directly - the most they would have done was suggest to him gently that if he steered things their way, Ireland would benefit hugely from their investment. And it did.
The problem is that, while the US is one monolithic entity, the EU is composed of smaller member states. Bring all the US influence to bear on almost any single (or even few) member states, and they'll fold pretty much instantly.
Again (with SW Patents), had Poland (alone, without anything really to lose) not stood up, they would have succeeded. Where were the UK, Germany, etc? Even France, with their notorious unnecessary bloody-mindedness?
The only way for the EU to stand up to this kind of US pressure is for all the member states to pull together and resist corporatisation. However, the current EU government structure (as I understand it) is less accountable and even more easily corrupted than the US one (which has already fallen).
They won't need to corporatise the system of government if they can just buy a few well-placed bureaucrats and get the same level of control with even less exposure or accountability.
"Europe held most of the world at their disposal for quite a large chunk of human history. You can't do that if you're easily swayed by money and opinion."
Hmmm. As I recall, we had all the money and opinion - that's why we had most of the world. These days, I'd say that role's more fulfilled by the US (at least for the next few years, until the decline becomes irreversible).
Re:Fighting back? (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, the $5 million a day would be more than enough for the EU to pay those employees for doing nothing - or working for a competing (perhaps OSS) company and spreading bad PR about Microsoft.
Sure, MS, could conceivably do this (unless it is prohibited by EU law) - but if they did, Europeans would ditch Microsoft products in droves, and serious competing companies would spring up - perhaps even using Microsoft inside information. Payback's a bitch.
Re:Bill Will Fill (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cost of doing business? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And at that rate... (Score:3, Insightful)
How many MS investors believe that they're actually more predatory than Bill and Steve?
I think the high rolles might be inclined to let the situation ride for a while if they think the MS management is on top of it. Naturally, this is a tricky situation to manage, because Ballmer and Gates can't exactly publicly reassure their investors that they are planning to game the system and make fools out of the regulators. They can't even wink or nod.
It's like high diplomacy; if they do want to game the system, they have to protest and make ineffectual moves towards compliance with a look of tin-plated innocence hoisted on their face that will be barely convincing enough to keep the opposition from being whipped into a frenzy, but not so convincing their clients and allies are whipped into a frenzy.
Re:They will never pay (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:This the same EU? (Score:3, Insightful)
China isn't in Europe. Nor is Egypt. Nor were the Aztecs. I don't think I'd count several of the middle Easy civilizations, as Europe either. (though that is debatable)
There were independent civilizations in America long before Europe came and imposed their own.
Western civilization arose in Europe, but there were plenty of others that came before or independently.