The status of Java on my machine:
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Missing option (Score:5, Insightful)
Currently running Minecraft.
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Likewise: I have the JRE enabled, but the browser plugin disabled. The browser plugin seems to be the real security issue.
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I think running Minecraft could be considered "...is delicious, when correctly prepared." :)
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Exactly. Browser plugin disabled but not uninstalled, for one VPN connection I very occasionally need. Other than that, I use Java for Minecraft. Never use it for anything else.
I voted "does not apply" (Score:2)
Since I refuse to install it on any of my machines.
I voted "delicious" (Score:5, Insightful)
Thing is, Java is enabled on my computer(s) but disabled in all of my browsers - that's been the setup for many months now.
I liked the promise of Java, once upon a time. But, in practice, it's fallen terribly short of the mark in so many ways. It does have some utility in certain server environments, though.
Re:I voted "delicious" (Score:4, Insightful)
JavaWebStart and applets are a security disaster. But what is the problem with Java desktop applictions?
Yes, the used to be slow and ugly. That has not been the case for years. And if you use SWT, you can use native widgets.
Native widgets? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nobody's invented a native widget in decades. The only reason SWT is still around is because of Eclipse, otherwise it would have died the same horrible death as all of IBM's other Java technologies.
The problem with Java desktop applications is that the desktop itself is become irrelevant.
Just compare the salaries of people writing Java desktop applications with those writing web apps or phone apps.
Or don't take my advice...I've only been in the business of writing Java desktop apps for 15 years.
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Java desktop apps are still pretty common on internal company networks. They're easier to write and maintain than web apps. And while it's true they haven't kept up to date visually, companies generally don't care about aesthetics in non-customer-facing applications.
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That doesn't just apply to java, desktop app developers use less technology, so less salary makes perfect sense. Then again desktop apps have limitations that web apps have solved, so desktop apps in general are becoming rarer.
You can have your web apps, but I don't want to be forced to connect to the web to use software. I moved from MS Windows to Linux and Macs, I'm typing this on a dual-boot Mac running Snow Leopard and Ubuntu 12.04, because MS requires software to contact the mothership for "Activation". I wanted to get Adobe CS but decided not to for the same reason, so I want to either get CinePaint working or find another replacement photo editor good enough for print. And no, GIMP isn't there yet for professional print th
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design elegance of MFC
I had to read that sentence a few times before I realized you weren't being sarcastic. MFC was a horrible kludge. Yes, it wasn't bad to use, and I developed with it for many years, but "elegant" is not a word I'd ever use to describe it.
Re:I voted "delicious" (Score:4)
But what is the problem with Java desktop applictions?
I've got nothing against Java desktop apps per se, but they're uncommon. I would disagree with your assessment that they're no longer slow; the few I've used tend to be slow and have rather high memory requirements for what they do. Also, in my experience, they can be prone to significant memory leaks - not that Java's the only one with that problem.
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Java is *not* prone to memory leaks. You have to actually make quite an effort to leak memory in a Java application. Of course, making those kind of mistakes is one of the first things n00bs seem to learn.
Re:I voted "delicious" (Score:4, Informative)
I suspect the GP is being fairly loose with the term "memory leak" using it to mean applications whose memory usage goes up over time even though what the user is doing with the app isn't changing much.
One problem is people think a garbage collector stops them having to worry about memory. That is true to an extent but programmers still have to be careful to avoid situations where an object is highly unlikely to be (or possiblly even can't be) used again but nevertheless there is a reference sitting arround to it somewhere.
Another is that use of background garbage collection can create very undesirable behaviour under a multitasking OS and especially under a multitasking OS with swap and from the outside this behaviour looks very much like a "leak". AIUI If something stops the (low priority) gc thread from running then the application will continue to eat up memory until it hits a hard limit on the memory available (at which point non-background gc will be forced). Meanwhile the OS has no idea that the app doesn't really need this memory and so will do whatever is needed to make it available. Afaict this misbehaviour is why java runs with a relatively low hard memory limit by default (which papers over the problem to some extent but is far from an ideal soloution).
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Oh, that explains why I keep seeing Java apps that are self-limited to 100MB of RAM. Thanks for clarifying that.
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This is why I think reference counting is a better way of memory management and is what Perl uses.
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I also coded on them with Intellij Idea, which is written in Java and lightning fast for what it achieves.
I can only conclude that the Java apps you have seen must be inferior, or just Eclipse.
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For whatever reason Java apps do tend to be slow. Maybe in raw computing performance it's okay, but for example I have an AMD dual core server with 8GB of RAM that can load Firefox in two to three seconds. If I try to open a Java app like JDownloader it takes 30+ seconds. That is with Java already loaded and running another app (PS3 Media Server). Both are not what I would call fast and responsive when you start poking their UIs.
Desktop Java apps seem to mostly suck. On the server things might be different.
Re:I voted "delicious" (Score:4, Interesting)
Right - I think this describes a lot of Slashdotters and am surprised this wasn't an option - "installed, but disabled in browser". Lots of software out there needs it. Minecraft being a prime example ... but there's plenty of other ones.
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I picked "Disabled". It can't really mean anything else, even though it's technically incorrect.
(I suppose it could mean chmod -x /bin/java)
Re:I voted "delicious" (Score:4, Interesting)
Thing is, Java is enabled on my computer(s) but disabled in all of my browsers - that's been the setup for many months now.
I just use the 64-bit JDK. It gets me the Java I need for work, and doesn't work in 32-bit browsers. Actually, I'm not sure the 64-bit version even includes the Java plugin. Which is just perfect, considering applets are useless and the only things I really need Java for are command-line development tools.
Java IS delicious (Score:5, Interesting)
I still think it's the best language/ecosystem to use for development of serverside enterprise applications. Nothing else is even close in terms of maturity and support and availability of tools, libraries, frameworks, etc. Some other languages have more and nicer features, but the ecosystem and support of Java is the most important asset it has.
And yes, it was a sad day when Oracle took over...
--Coder
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Sometime in the last week or two I went to a website that didn't display properly and found that it was because I was missing the Java plugin for my browser. (Apparently the IT department at $DAYJOB had just blocked it, because they're really on the ball, or more likely I'd forgotten to reinstall it after the last time they updated the browser and just hadn't encountered any sites that used it in a while.)
It's disappointing - Java has a fairly strong security model (except for the occasional implementation
Applets disabled (Score:5, Interesting)
The browser plugin is disabled as that is the source of most vulnerabilities, but I still use Java on a daily basis for other tasks. I imagine that is fairly common for software developers, and have no idea which poll option corresponds to that.
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Same here. Not a developer but a bunch of tools that I have to use regularly use Java. Starting with Cisco's fabulous ASDM.
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The browser plugin is disabled as that is the source of most vulnerabilities, but I still use Java on a daily basis for other tasks. I imagine that is fairly common for software developers, and have no idea which poll option corresponds to that.
I strongly suspect that's because the person who submitted this poll wasn't very knowledgeable on the subject and didn't understand the distinction between the browser plugin and the JRE.
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same. i run java-based programs regularly but have java disabled in browsers.. nothing "mission critical" or anything, just a few utilities that there isn't a better (or is no) non-java option.
i chose "Java is delicious, when correctly prepared." option because that is essentially correct. it's a great platform for some things, when implemented properly.
Applets disabled here too (Score:2)
Me too. I have disabled the browser plugin since the security shenanigans in 2012 (August, IIRC). The only website I use that needs Java applets is the site of the Bank I have an account on. I enable the plugin just before going to that site, and disable it just after.
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I have a similar problem, but a slightly different solution - I browse regularly using the 64 bit browser, java disabled. If a particular site needs it, I fire up the 32 bit version with it enabled. Two shortcuts, easy-peasy.
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Your bloated enterprise garbage doesn't make it nearly my machine on even annually.
Someone set us up the Java?
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We git repo.
main() {
on.turn.factory.object()
}
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Re:Applets disabled (Score:4, Funny)
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Trolls Slashdot appear me rage makes incoherent with on it when!!?!!
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I write C and ASM too.
I also use CrashPlan [crashplan.com], which is written in Java. It is not bloated and it is definitely not garbage -- in fact, it's one of the best no-touch backup solutions in existence. No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer. I don't try to dictate what other programmers/companies use for their solutions (as I don't have an experience in their domains, there's not much I could really add) -- when I'm the user, I judge on whether the software meets my needs.
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It's also extremely slow. It will often backup at only 20-40 mbit/sec locally on my gig lan. I know it encrypts files, but my i7 can perform
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Actually, unlike C and Assembly, Java has a garbage collector.
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Good C and asm (and C++) developers don't make garbage, so they don't need one.
everyone is doing it wrong (Score:3)
WHY THE HELL DOESN'T EVERYONE DO THAT?! What is Open Office thinking, purposely installing a full blown copy of outdated software onto my machine when I may not even use it for browser-related tasks?! Ugh! I hope Oracle goes bankrupt. I really, really do. After this many years, they deserve it.
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This is insane. I've written lots and lots of java apps, developed on windows, deployed to Solaris, on JVMs with differing minor versions. Never had a problem. If you need to distribute a JVM with your app to make sure it still works, the programmer is doing something very weird. The only way it makes sense is if a commercial product doesn't want to force their users how to figure out how to install a JVM.
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If you need to distribute a JVM with your app to make sure it still works, the programmer is doing something very weird.
Not necessarily. Sun changed the way proxies were handled in the earlier versions of Java 6. This caused a problem where I work because the VPN software we use creates a new interface and disables the default one (for applicatons, anyway). I would be surprised if that isn't true for VPN software in general. We couldn't get around this problem. I'm assuming there are other edge cases
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If it's free, then why not?
You simply don't need to be at the mercy of software that is out of your control. It's not 1982. You don't have to worry about every byte being precious.
You can make your app self contained and not worry about someone else's nonsense.
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This is what "Write Once, Run Everywhere" has been reduced to. It's ludicrous.
Another missing option (Score:2)
It is (Score:5, Funny)
Java is currently all over my keyboard. Been trying to get it out of the crevices for years.
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The handy mug holder that pops out of the side of the laptop was made so things like this don't happen.
Mine is unusable for the suggested purpose, it pops up vertically.
Uninstalled (disabled?) (Score:2)
I gave up and never use it anymore. I don't play Minecraft either. Uninstalled. I can always redownload and reinstall if I need it.
Enabled - I support a Java-based app. (Score:2)
But it's an app that completely locks down Java, using it's own locked-down bundled JRE. We don't allow any Java apps/applets other than the ones signed by us to run from our JRE.
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No choice but to leave on (Score:1)
In the world of Network Operations, it's impossible to disable Java at this time. Nearly every appliance we operate uses Java in some way in its administration GUI. Many of the home-grown applications here are also Java based. Vendors typically stray 5 to 10 years behind current market practices, so I don't see them abandoning Java any time soon. Heck, we're still waiting for some to abandon only support IE as a browser.
What I'd like to do is limit if not outright block Java outside of our campus, but t
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Sadly, I need it (Score:2)
Installed, but plugin disabled (Score:2)
After the recent bout of plugin vulnerabilities (plus what seems like a Firefox bug wrt Flash processes not dying) I disabled all plugins I do not actually use. So far, the only ones I've re-enabled are the VLC and WMP plugins, to watch H.264 videos.
Which leaves Flash, Java, Silverlight, and something called "Uplay" disabled (I think some Ubisoft game installed that - fuckers). So far, I've missed out on enough Flash things that I'll probably re-enable it eventually, but it's been so long since I needed Jav
JRE or JDK? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not Installed (Score:2)
I don't have Java installed on any of my machines. Mac or Windows. I have no personal or professional use for it.
I sorta wanted to play Minecraft, but nope, not installing Java just for that.
Requiring an update (Score:1)
Pretty much constantly. I ignore the update request for a couple of days, then finally have the time to run it. Five minutes later, it wants another update.
I've given up now, and only update when things that require Java stop working.
Not even installed (Score:2)
I haven't had Java installed on my machine for years. No useful web site seems to need it, and my own work is in Python, C/C++, Go, or JavaScript.
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No useful web site seems to need it, and my own work is in Python, C/C++, Go, or JavaScript.
Same thing here.
I hate the language; real men compile their code to real binaries (or have it interpreted from human-readable text files).
Turned off in Browser, but... (Score:2)
I haven't had the plugin enabled in the browser for years. But I do have it installed, and use it on a daily basis as a IDE I use (AppCode by JetBrains) requires it, as well as some other desktop apps I use.
Which is unfortunate, because every one of them IMO would be better served by not being written in Java.
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I haven't had the plugin enabled in the browser for years.
Sorry to appear clueless, and I do know there is a difference between Java and Javascript, but in Firefox say, does this mean in Preferences/Content the “Enable Javascript” box isn’t checked?
Am I reckless if it’s enabled or paranoid if it’s disabled?
Re:Turned off in Browser, but... (Score:4, Informative)
JavaScript is entirely different from Java. "No relation" as they say.
You can leave JS enabled... if you try turning it off, you'll see damn near ever website break to some degree.
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...and there was much rejoicing :)
(the beauty of noscript is that you can selectively enable JS, though it'd be nice to have more flexibility that white/black list -- e.g., allow google.com, but only for these domains)
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Missing Options (Score:3)
.
-- Java was Never installed, thus did not have to be disabled -- had IceTea as the option on the version of Firefox/Iceweasel which I use. This option is not covered by "enabled", "disabled", or "not able to be installed". It's actually a completely different option
-- Cowboy Neil drank my cup of hot Java!
.
Are they holding Cowboy Neil incommunicado somewhere? Really?
Does not apply? Disabled? (Score:2)
Does not apply
Many years ago I disable the Java in browser. Few years later I have observed that I'm not using the Java thing at all so I have uninstalled it.
So it doesn't apply because I do not have Java on my machine at all.
Looking back, except for OO.o and LibreOffice nobody's complained about its availability. And even in the OO.o/LO one can just click the error message away and it goes on working without problems. (IIRC the DB stuff and some plug-ins are written in Java, but I yet to spot any regression related
Which Java? (Score:4, Insightful)
The browser plugin is disabled. The standalone java VM is enabled.
There are worse things.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone wanted to pwn me, they would not need Java to do it. Good user practices (stay off of warez and redtube) make me safer than disabling Java.
Option Missing (Score:3)
Uninstalled.
2 out of 3 (Score:2)
open source programs are so entangled with java its extremely hard to be free of it. I know there are options, but are they really better, at all?
Java programs I use (Score:4, Interesting)
I've never had the Java browser plugin installed on this computer, but I do make use of Java desktop programs quite often:
Vuze
JDownloader
LibreOffice
so Java is enabled.
Re:Java programs I use (Score:4, Interesting)
LibreOffice is not a Java program. LibreOffice is not a Java program. LibreOffice is not a Java program. LibreOffice is not a Java program. The same with OpenOffice.
(if you mean you need the Java for database access in LibreOffice, then that's something different. But since you wrote "Java desktop programs"...)
NoScript, No MS, No Problem... (Score:2)
Enabled until I can get rid of it (Score:2)
This is finally giving me the kick in the pants needed to work on replacing a friend's old Java applet with DHTML. But I need Java enabled to compare how the applet works to what I'm making.
My machine is an android device... (Score:4, Insightful)
Status & Location (Score:2)
Unknown (Score:3)
Not Installed (Score:2)
Bought a new rig two weeks ago, haven't installed it; probably won't ever need it.
Java out! (Score:2)
Missing option "click to play" (Score:2)
I have java installed, but it's configured to run only when I click-to-play. I need java for my stock trading platform and also to access some old PIX firewalls. I cannot disable it completely.
Enabled but suppressed with NoScript. (Score:2)
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Missing option: uninstalled/not installed (Score:2)
Installed and enabled (Score:2)
I keep my JREs (32- and 64-bit v7; I use some non-browser programs of both bitnesses) updated and don't even bother shutting off the browser plugin. This is because
1) thanks to precautions (and a good adblocker that I have a whitelist for) I've /never/ gotten an infection from the Internet[1], and
2) once in a great while I visit a site where I actually want to run a Java applet.
[1] even on my work computer which I ran for three-ish years without any antivirus (because it was an old machine and the AV deman
FreeBSD user here (Score:2)
Killed with fire... (Score:2)
...On all my Windows machines. And yes, I do know the difference between the browser plugins and the platform, but since I don't run any apps that use it, it seemed to be just cruft. Not on my OpenBSD server and Ubuntu desktop either for the same reasons.
By some miracle we're not doing any Java stuff at work either so I can continue to not have it installed.
Questions without context ... (Score:2)
No OpenOffice/LibreOffice? (Score:2)
I'm surprised at the numbers. Out of curiosity, what are you folks who don't have Java installed using for a word processor?
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I'm surprised at the numbers. Out of curiosity, what are you folks who don't have Java installed using for a word processor?
In my case, Emacs. Unless you don't count writing plain text, HTML or troff documents as "word processing"; then I'm not doing it at all.
Enabled, but only for Air Video Server (Score:2)
Re:Not there (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe if you enabled Java...
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