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German Minister Seeks Jail Time For FPS Players
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Dec 07, 2006 06:28 PM
from the all-i-did-was-a-little-fragging dept.
from the all-i-did-was-a-little-fragging dept.
GamePolitics has the somewhat unbelievable news that German Minister of the Interior Gunther Beckstein is seeking jail time for violent game developers, publishers, and players. MSNBC has further coverage of the issue, which has pro gamers in Germany quite worried. From the article: "The draft law, a reaction to a school shooting that shook German public opinion last month, will come before the upper house of parliament next year. But it is already sending shockwaves through the 2m-strong German online gaming community. 'We have among the most drastic censorship rules for games,' said Frank Sliwka, head of the Deutsche E-Sport Bund, an umbrella federation for German online gaming teams. 'Now we are being labelled as a breeding ground for unstable, dysfunctional and violent youngsters.'"
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It's all the games' fault! (Score:5, Funny)
*ducks*
Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:5, Insightful)
They got involved pretty damn quickly, though.
Parent
Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:5, Funny)
Edmund: Well, in that case, Baldrick, you're quite safe. However, the Teutonic reputation for brutality is well-founded: their operas last three or four days; and they have no word for `fluffy'.
Parent
Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:5, Funny)
The fastest possible meta Godwin would be in a child response to a G0 post. Let's call that an M1 post. You can't pull a meta-Godwin in a G0 post without triggering the self-referential (wank) exception.
Sadly, you post is a respectable but undistinguished M2 (grand child) meta-godwin. But then again this post is an H3 hyper-meta-godwin so I can't say anthing. H2 would the fastest theoretically possible hyper-meta. Of course you can't do an H1 because that triggers the meta-self-referential (wank wank) rule.
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Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:5, Insightful)
~~=====> - Godwin's Law
0 - You
_|_
|
/ \
It's not a rule that can be invoked like "Whoever finishes the TP must install the new roll.", it's a law in the sense of "E=MC^2".
Let me introduce you to Kano's Law [angelfire.com].
LK
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Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:4, Informative)
You don't seem to have any idea of what Godwin's Law is. It does not prevent further discussion, or stop information from being "free." It is simply a statement of probability. This is what Godwin's Law says:
It says nothing about such comparisons being valid or invalid. It says nothing about discontinuing the discussion, or winning an argument - as so many people mistakenly argue. It just says that lengthy online discussions are more likely to contain comparisons to Nazis than brief discussions.
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Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:It's all the games' fault! (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to mention that he didn't even say anything about the world wars; for all we know he could have been referring to Germanic barbarians fighting with the Roman legions 2000 years ago!
Parent
WOW, more of the same (Score:5, Insightful)
First, Didn't the neo-nazi youths have this title all wrapped up before there were violent games?
Kidding aside, this is just another stupid knee jerk reaction to social problems that nobody wants to take the blame for.
When I was a kid, we played with toy guns, king of the hill, kill-the-guy-with-the-ball, and other VIOLENT games...
It wasn't until they banned 'red rover' that this sort of bad finger pointing started to happen...
FerChrisSakes - lets blame everyone and everything but the parents and families of violent kids...
Sheesh
Re:WOW, more of the same (Score:4, Informative)
And yes, Beckstein's a git. It's taking him far too long to realise that he is one of the most unpopular politicians in Bavaria, now that Monica ("my daddy used to OWN this state!") Hohlmeier has been run out of town in disgrace.
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Reason? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:you got it all wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
More aptly, this guy is elected by people who bother to vote
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"Logic" (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Pretty females can have a stimulating effect on sex offenders (known and unknown), so will you ban women from walking in public?
2) Good tasting food can have a stimulating effect on people with eating disorders, so will you ban good tasting food?
How about doing something constructive and helping people recognize problems in their kids, providing free help to families with issues, and promiting good family relationships, instead?
Re:"Logic" (Score:4, Interesting)
Pretty females can have a stimulating effect on sex offenders (known and unknown), so will you ban women from walking in public?
Or make them wear burkas. Might as well. That's where the EU will be in 10 years time anyway. The lovely streetwalkers of Paris will become a thing of the past. :-(
Parent
Re:"Logic" (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:"Logic" (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah - luckily, that couldn't possibly happen, since that would be ridiculous. [nytimes.com]
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Re:"Logic" (Score:5, Interesting)
Such a ban has been in effect in Denmark since 2004, and I'm yet to see any restaurants close over it or any chefs complain that now they can't make their favorite dishes.
Hell, even McDonalds got on board very quickly. And they've even announced their intentions of extending the restrictions on transfatty acids to all of their European restaurents - all 6,300 of them. Even Kentucky Fried Chicken announced similar goals (they have restaurents in Denmark as well).
And all that without changing the way food tastes.
Oh, wait. You were being obtuse, weren't you?
What next? Going to complain that we don't allow odd things like, say, tar and mercury in your food due to health issues? I mean, people could just steer clear of the foods that contained that kind of stuff, right?
Parent
Not "German Minister of the Interior" (Score:5, Informative)
he (Beckstein) is not the "German Minister of the Interior" but the one of Bavaria (german: Bayern). Bavaria is the most conservative state in germany, ruled for nearly 60 years by the same party. He has been joined in his attempt by the minister of interior of lower saxony.
The core of the prolem is the definition of "killer games". Since nearly all major politicians are 60 or older, they have nearly no understanding of the topic. They believe e.g. that Counterstrike is played with a joystick and the goal of the game to be "killing hostages". Usually, hearing them, i'm torn between laughing and crying.
Regards, Martin
An once of prevention (Score:5, Interesting)
But what is seldom appreciated is how often that a pound of prevention turns out to be worth only an ounce of cure. Or less.
The reason that the "ounce of prevention" strategy works is that it focuses you on simple, reasonable actions that accurately target the concern and produce few side effects. Like putting a lock on your door to prevent burglary. Now you could sit on your front porch and shoot at everybody who comes near your house that you think "looks shifty". There is no doubt a more vigorous preventive measure than locking your doors and widnows, but it isn't more effective.
It really doesn't matter whether something is done before or after the fact, so much that the action be chosen to produce the results desired, and not much if anything else.
And seeing as we've already triggered Godwin's law, I may as well raise the example of the Final Solution as an instance of the pound of prevention phenomonon. If people thought that the Jews where using their control of money to ruin the country, why didn't they simply pass a few banking regulation laws? Then nobody could ruin the country that way, Jew or otherwise. The answer is that the pound of prevention phenomon, like road rage, is driven by highly emotionally charged thinking. The kind that makes you act so stupidly that the only way not to die from embarassment is to do something even stupider.
If you're so concerned with pathologically violent people, why not simply screen for them at various reasonable points? You provide mental health services at school to disturbed kids and training for teachers on how to recognize and deal with them. You screen people who have violent run-ins with other people before they go onto bigger and badder things. You run a public education campaign so people can recognize when their associates and familiy members need help -- maybe a few people will recognize they need help themselves.
Will this get rid of all violence by disturbed people? No. But it will do a hell of a lot more than banning video games.
You know what causes the most school shootings... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm pretty sure Islamic extremist groups didn't become violent from video games, but because they felt a need to lash out. The behavior is, plain and simple, unchecked immaturity combined with a little knowledge.
Beckstein NOT germanys Minister of the Interior (Score:5, Informative)
He is the Minister of Interior of Bavaria, and Bavaria is just one of 16 states (Bundesland) in germany. That's like calling Arnold Schwarzenegger president of the united states.
And besides that, he isn't even very popular in germany (at least outside bavaria).
To give you a picture of his political position: The conservatives (CDU) are the largest party in germany at the moment, althouth they are only supported by about 35% across germany.
In bavaria, things are a lot different. Bavaria is so conservative, that the more moderate CDU is split into two partys. The party in bavaria is called CSU, so the rest of germany does not link the radical positions of the CSU to the conservatives outside bavaria.
That works incredible well: the CSU dominates bavaria around 60% for decades, with political statements like the above. And Mr. Beckstein is often the one saying the radical statements.
Shall I mention that Mr. Beckstein is a huge fan of the Bush administration whereas most germans are not?
Some clarification (Score:5, Insightful)
He is doing it to make sure people don't notice all the scandals his administration is involved in, for example they just completely botched a police IT spending bill, wasted millions on new software which does not work. And his law and order state had issues with soccer hooligans.
In short: the guy is a joke. Don't take him seriously.
Re:Going a little overboard (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Where do you draw the line (Score:5, Funny)
Well, then, your car will immediately be stopped by the police and you automatically lose the race. In fact, in order to keep anyone's feelings from being hurt, GT4 will be rewritten so that all races always end in a tie between all drivers.
Yes they do. In fact, the makers of personal computers will be liable if someone uses their personal computer to virtually harm another being--including making them feel bad. Of course, makers of personal computers will then sue all of their component suppliers and so on down the line.
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