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UK Recording Industry Wants Allofmp3 An Issue at G8
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jul 14, 2006 02:45 PM
from the of-dire-importance-to-the-world dept.
from the of-dire-importance-to-the-world dept.
alveraan writes "According to a the BBC, 'the UK recording industry is urging the foreign secretary to raise the issue of Russian bargain music download website allofmp3.com at the G8 summit'. British Phonographic Industry (BPI) chairman Peter Jamieson wants Margaret Beckett to 'urge the Russian government to take action against the operators of the site by insisting that it is removed from the internet'. Allofmp3 has insisted in the past that it is operating in compliance with Russian copyright laws."
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AllofMP3.com May Hinder Russia Joining WTO 419 comments
gitana writes "The New York Times is reporting that American trade negotiators may demand the shutdown of AllofMP3.com as a condition of Russia joining the World Trade Organization." From the article: "Music industry officials say AllofMP3, which first came to their attention in 2004, is a large-scale commercial piracy site, and they dismiss its claims of legality. "It is totally unprecedented to have a pirate site operating so openly for so long," said Neil Turkewitz, executive vice president of the Recording Industry Association of America, who is based in Washington ... AllofMP3.com says on the site that it can legally sell to any user based in Russia and warns foreign users to verify the legality within their countries for themselves. The site features a wide selection of Russian music, but is written in English with prices listed in United States dollars."
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Your Rights Online: AllofMp3.com Breaks Silence 666 comments
An anonymous reader writes "The controversial Russian music site AllofMp3.com has fired back a return salvo on legality, royalties, and the WTO." From the article: "The entertainment industry however claims the service is flat out illegal. According to the IFPI (International Federation of the Phonographic Industry), AllofMp3.com fails to pay artist royalties - contrary to AllofMp3.com's assertions."
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Your Rights Online: BPI Sue AllOfMp3 In British Courts 433 comments
Ckwop writes "AllOfMp3 is getting sued by the British Phonographic Industry. From the article:
"We have maintained all along that this site is illegal and that the operator of the site is breaking UK law by making sound recordings available to UK-based customers without the permission of copyright owners. Now we will have the opportunity to demonstrate in the UK courts the illegality of this site."
" The issue of course will be whether any injunction will be enforceable or not.
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Be Ashamed (Score:4, Insightful)
They have no shame. (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as they're concerned this is one of the most important things in the world...someone is impinging on their leeching! Their blind, rapacious greed is the overriding impulse in their miserable lives.
Nothing would suprise me, coming from them. I literally can't imagine a depth that they wouldn't sink to, given the opportunity.
Re:They have no shame. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They have no shame. (Score:4, Insightful)
The RIAA & its ilk have to use the power of the government to _force_ people to pay them.
Any true capitalist would know that this is not a viable free-market business model.
Re:They have no shame. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:They have no shame. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what makes an issue seem important? Voices. Voices create the feeling of presence. And surely, if there is presence on behalf of a particular issue, then that issue seems important. Unfortunately for the masses, a small number of rich people can buy voices and create presence, thus promoting their own ideologies as important.
I kind of feel that this post should be moderated as "Well duh," but perhaps a reminder never hurts.
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what makes an issue seem important? Voices.
Close, but not quite. Most politicians have learned to ignore voices pretty damn well. What makes an issue seem important is how much money, power, and/or fame they can use the issue to obtain, or how much money, power, and/or fame they stand to lose if they ignore the issue. For most politicians, unless you can promise them that listening to you will bring them one of those three things, they couldn't care less what you have to say.
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:5, Insightful)
I definitely agree with you, 110%. I think an addendum to that would be that there are in fact times when politicians don't have an opportunity to pursue their self-serving interests, when the opposing pressure is too great and the spotlight is too bright; basically, a politician is only as honest as the people keep him.
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:3, Insightful)
It isn't like most of the G8 countries aren't dealing with those issues.
P.S. The international community can deal with more than one thing at a time. Eco
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:5, Insightful)
People wonder why none of the dictatorships are being intimidated by the supposed power of the UN. The answer is simple. If the wester countries ignore the UN, so can they. *cough*War in Iraq*cough*.
If the US can just trample UN resolutions without any sanctions, do you think the dictators have any reason to belive the UN can have any power over THEM?
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Be Ashamed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bush has a plan! (Score:3, Informative)
You know...I keep hearing people say that, but, I make WAY less than that...and I did see my fed. taxes drop.
Now..if they could just get me out of that damned ponzi scheme they call soc
International Influence (Score:5, Insightful)
With the UKRI pushing their agenda in allofmp3.com's backyard [g8russia.ru], at a conference of international powers, this becomes an international issue.
Whatever happens there is likely to serve as some sort of moral precedence and influence legislators in the US as well.
Re:International Influence (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:International Influence (Score:5, Informative)
"And the more they push it, the more people will hear about allofmp3.com. Some of them may visit the site, and see how cheap it is to distribute music online. They may start to realise that it's possible to distribute that 99 iTunes track for 10, cover all distribution costs, and still make a profit."
I was at Best Buy the other day, looking at large flat panel monitors. They were nice, but I just couldn't justify buying one for $1,000. Then when I was in the parking lot, a scruffy looking kid called me over to his car. His trunk was open, and he had some monitors that had "fallen off the truck". And they were only $100! This guy has really shown Best Buy that it's possible to sell a $1,000 monitor for $100, cover all distribution costs, and still make a profit.
"They may start wondering if the recording industry really deserves to be getting 90/track for music that was recorded decades ago by people who are now dead, of if they deserve a 900% profit margin."
It is not mathematically possible to have a profit margin of more than 100%. ITYM "900% markup." But is your issue that record companies charge the same price for music by dead people as they do by people who have not yet shed this mortal coil? If so, do you only pirate music by dead people? A related question: Magnatune [magnatune.com] allows you to download a CD's worth of music for as low as $5. That's still several X the price of music on the Russian sites. Do you think that this makes Magnatune greedy? At least the traditional record companies will front the artists the production money; Magnatune does no such thing. Do you think they deserve to charge so much?
Smart people -- on both sides of the piracy debate -- know that the record industry is hugely competitive and highly speculative, and that the reality is that net profit margins are actually quite low. With the exception of the big media conglomerates that happen to have recording company arms (and you shouldn't be buying music from them anyway), it's exceedlingly rare to find a record company in the Fortune 500, and the reality is that most record companies are like Magnatune -- they have very small staffs and everybody is generally over-worked and under-paid. This is why there's an inherent issue with flying the "the record companies are greedy" flag when making the choice to pirate or use the Russian sites. At the least, there's the karma issue: it's easy for us to declare that somebody is greedy or makes too much money by some arbitrarily standard when considering whether we're going to violate their rights. But no matter how much money we make, somebody with less money than us just might make that same arbitrary decision about us.
Doubtful (Score:5, Insightful)
But I'm sure it makes great press for the British recording association to push at their membership to show why they're paying them dues...
Re:Doubtful (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Doubtful (Score:3, Insightful)
More interesting question is what if they allowed AllofSoftware.com.
I do not think they do, but the question is worth asking.
Copyright Holders (Score:5, Insightful)
Victory lap for Putin (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Copyright Holders (Score:5, Informative)
2. Most "big" bands also don't bitch about people sharing their music.
3. I don't bitch about wanting those peoples efforts for less money, most recorded music is shit, and I either buy or download the rest depending on various factors.
4. I don't bitch about outsourcing either.
Re:Copyright Holders (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, distribution of wealth is a major problem. An even bigger problem is the fact that money apparently buys the rich the ability to push a political agenda that will make them more money and worsen the already problematic distribution of wealth.
The Music industry needs to get some perspective (Score:5, Informative)
The G8 summit is gathering of the worlds most powerful leaders to discuss important topics.
From the agenda page [g8russia.ru]:
This year, we plan to urge our partners to redouble efforts to ensure global energy security. We believe that today, it is crucial to find a solution to a problem which directly influences the social and economic development of all countries, without exception.
I am convinced that our efforts towards attaining this goal should be comprehensive and must stimulate stabilization of the global energy markets, development of innovation technologies, use of renewable energy sources and protection of the environment. We believe that today, we must think very seriously about ways to bridge the gap between energy-sufficient and energy-lacking countries.
The spread of all kinds of epidemics in the world emphasizes the need to step up the fight against infectious diseases. We are convinced that the creation of a global system to monitor dangerous diseases, the development of regular interaction between experts from different states, and broader exchange of research information about dangerous viruses will have a major positive influence on the solution of these serious problems.
In addition to the current agenda, we also plan to raise the issue of education in the G8. In our opinion, the time has come to focus on ways to improve the quality and effectiveness of national education systems and professional training. We must find tools for encouraging the international business community to increase investment into this sector.
Other major international issues we will concentrate on during Russia's Presidency are counterterrorism and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the settlement of regional conflicts, the development of the global economy, finance and trade, as well as protection of the environment.
This is about saving lives and fixing major things wrong with the world and should not be bothering about some fucking music website.
Re:G8? Saving lives? (Score:5, Insightful)
You have a whole spectrum of opinions on this. You start with France which is furthermost on the "pro subsidy" and "screw the africans, oh god they will flood us". On the other side you have UK and Germany which would like to see the subsidies abolished because they do not produce a lot, but provide Uncle Jacque with financial means for screwing the aftricans via their contributions to EU Common Agricultural Policy. Then you have the Russians, Canadians and the Americans which would like to see these abolished for a completely different reason. They think that they can outcompete everybody else on sheer scale and industrial methods in the absence of subsidies.
So on, so fourth. G8 is definitely not uniform on this. If it was it would have reached to an agreement on agricultural issues very long ago. That is not the case. They are on the agenda every time. Both in G8 and in the EU budget hearings.
Anyway, if you have objections to this, France is the right country to bitch about. They are clearly the worst as far as subsidies are concerned.
Who cares about poverty in Africa? (Score:5, Funny)
bigger issues (Score:5, Funny)
Asian Software Piracy (Score:4, Interesting)
If AllOfMp3.com IS following Russian copyright law, not a thing they can do. The RIAA has been making knee jerk reactions over the last few years and you would think there would be some backlash...maybe that backlash is responsible for their reported sales figure decline? I'd have hoped for a much stronger showing in opposition of them though when they started filing law suits against grandmothers.
Granted, there are more important things in the world than the RIAA ledger. This is not a world problem issue, this is something minor in the face of whats going on right now.
All the things she said, erm, USED to say (Score:3, Insightful)
Other than not ship to Russia? What about dropping all Russian artists (such as tATu)? What about threatening to restructure the record companies to pay less tax to the U
All this Hypocrisy (Score:4, Insightful)
But when the same countries come up with innovative ideas and start beating the same business giants at their own game, they suddenly scream bloody murder and plea to their governments for protection from "unfair" competition.
Sweet! (Score:5, Insightful)
Am I the only one... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Am I the only one... (Score:5, Funny)
Who the hell says "phonograph" any more? :-)
Apparently the same people who are scared to death of the internet.
Re:Am I the only one... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Am I the only one... (Score:3, Insightful)
"...who reads that as "British Pornographic Institute" every time I see an article about them? Say what you will about the RIAA, at least their name is clearer."
Not hardly; each time the BPI is mentioned, somebody does the "phonographic / pornographic"
Having solved other problems... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because, you know, there aren't third world countries with rampant militants who will shoot anything, and children going hungry, and human rights violations, and the middle east isn't breaking out in all hell.
I mean, since we have all those big problems taken care of, now we can get down to the little petty issues. Right?
Right?
Hey, I want something too (Score:4, Insightful)
This isn't news. This is a PR stunt. If they actually do discuss this at the G8 summit (they wont), I would call this news worthy. At best, the US might make a quick speech about curbing piracy in the context of improving global trade and then sit down.
The music industry can want and wish all it wants. As the old saying goes though, wish in one hand and shit in the other. See which hand fills up first.
Pay no attention to world hunger (Score:5, Insightful)
Greedy shitheads.
But is AllOfMP3.com really legit? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is AllOfMP3.com legit (in the USA, or for sake of the article, the UK) or not?
Do artists get paid or not?
Are customers liable if they purchase and download?
Re:But is AllOfMP3.com really legit? (Score:4, Informative)
You can find info about it, and links to the acts, on wikipedia.
I don't get it (Score:3, Interesting)
It's working here in the home of the (decreasingly) free, land of the (usually) brave.
Someone to speak for me (Score:3)
Re:Global economy/government? (Score:5, Insightful)
As I recall there was a Russian programmer arrested in the united states from violating the DMCA when he was in RUSSIA under the direction of his employer for the actual purpose of COMPLYING with RUSSIAN law.
( although I suppose arguably he was arrested for telling people about it on U.S. soil)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Sklyarov [wikipedia.org]
If I'm not mistaken we also went into a small country called Panama and arrested it's dictator( read the guy who made the laws in that country and couldn't be accused of breaking his own laws) for trafficking Drugs in the country HE ran. We then took said president, ran him through a trial for crimes he DID NOT COMMIT ON US SOIL OR US JERISTICTION and he is now permanently in Jail for drug trafficking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega [wikipedia.org]
Ever heard of the Roosevelt corollary to the Monroe doctrine.
The U.S. has been disrespecting autonomy of other nations for years.
Re:Global economy/government? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm just getting fed-up with our (USA) gov't. upholding big business at the detriment of individuals, and wondering where to apply the oath I took (and seriously took to heart-I cnsider myself a patriot) to defend the USA Constition against enemies foriegn and DOMESTIC.
It has become really stressful for me at a personal level. I can't decide where to draw the line, but am afraid that my indecision is already PAST the line. I just don't know anymore, and this dismays me.
To me, it seems a fine line between protecting your country's existance and keeping same nose out of other country's existance, I am afraid we are rushing across that fine line with a veangeance at the behest of some of our powerful corp.'s/lobbyists...and that disgusts and angers me.
I dunno, something has to give, I'm just afraid of just what gives anymore.
Re:Global economy/government? (Score:5, Interesting)
I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.
He spoke to the U.S. Congress in 1934 to reveal and thwart a fascist takeover of the government that had been plotted by wealthy industrialists. I wish a heroes from the military would have the courage today to stop the neo-conservative fascist (backed by wealthy industrialists) takeover of the US government.
Re:I'm a allofmp3/alltunes user (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh the Howwuh... (said like Elmer Fudd) (Score:4, Insightful)
"That means they'll only clear a few billion this year instead of the extra hundred million or so that never makes it to the hands of the people who matter most in all this: the artists themselves. The most important people in the music business are the composers and musicians who write and perform the music and the producers and engineers who put it all together."
Allofmp3.com does not help this situation. I find it highly doubtful that allofmp3.com is paying them anything close to what's fair. And they are most certainly not paying the producers or engineers; those people are salaried or contractors and the record company pays them whether the record makes money or not. Buying from allofmp3.com ensures that a couple of Russian guys get money (which I suppose is a good thing), but it leaves the record company to foot the bill for making the music a reality. Or, in other words, "payback."
"For those of you out there who like say... Nelly Furtado, if she put her songs online at her own site for legal download at $.25 a track, she'd be a very rich woman."
This is a very common claim. Slashdotters are often quite full of advice for people in the recording industry. While there are certainly plenty of examples of musicians who've managed to eke out a living selling their music without a recording contract, and instances of bands releasing stuff on their own after their contract is up or they're dropped from their label (TMBG is one example), the fact is that there are still many, many more people who want recording contracts than actually get them. Why haven't Nelly and countless others done the right and proper thing? Broadly speaking, one of three possibilities is correct:
Except it's legal in Russia.. (Score:4, Informative)
They pay their license fees just like radio stations and music retailers do in the states..
just because the price for their compulsory license fees is much lower, and the PBI/RIAA is greedy, doesnt mean it's illegal or wrong.