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Microsoft turns to U.S. for EU Antitrust Help

Posted by Zonk on Fri Mar 31, 2006 09:55 AM
from the but-daaaaaaaaaaad dept.
Microsoft Government The Courts Politics News
An anonymous reader writes "The NY times reports that Microsoft has asked U.S. goverment officials to intervene on their behalf in the EU antitrust case. The US (through diplomatic channels) has asked the court to be 'fair'." From the article: "Microsoft has complained frequently in recent months that it has been denied the right to a fair defense in the continuing antitrust case with the European Commission. It has also accused the commission of collaborating with its rivals in the software industry and denying it access to what it contends are vital documents it needs to prepare its defense. A memo written by unidentified government officials in Washington stated that Microsoft's complaints raise 'substantial concerns' about the way Microsoft is being treated, according to a person close to the commission who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the memo."
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Microsoft turns to U.S. for EU Antitrust Help 25 Comments More /

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  • Bill Gates declares EU "Axis of Evil" (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 31 2006, @09:58AM (#15033374)
    Asks GWB to help win their hearts and minds with an arial bombardment.

  • What the hell are the UC doing? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MartinG (52587) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:07AM (#15033434) Homepage Journal
    They are wasting an enormous amount of time and effort trying to stop Microsoft crushing their competition reactively, when they could take a much more preventitive measure.

    All they need to do is clearly legislate that software patents are not allowed in Europe and the rest will take care of itself. Open source alternatives will establish themselves more quickly in the mainstream and competition will accellerate like there's no tommorrow.

    • Re:What the hell are the UC doing? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by molarmass192 (608071) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:38AM (#15033678) Homepage Journal
      I disagree, Microsoft didn't get to where they are using patents, it's their dirty business practices that given them their edge. Yeah, I'd like to see business process, method, and broad moronic patents banned, but that won't help in taking Microsoft to task anytime soon. If they REALLY want to hurt MS, simply ban their products in Europe. What a monster blow that would be, a minimum $6B dollar hit to annual revenue, but likely even higher since many US corps outfit their EU offices from US sourced software. I think an immediate 25% drop in total MS revenues wouldn't be unrealistic .. however ... given the incredible collateral pain that would cause for EU businesses, I can't in any way shape or form see anything even remotely close to that happening.
  • "Yeah, they've outlawed buying off their legislature, so we're having to work in the back channels to get our decision barged through, but half the time these guys ain't even speakin fuckin English, so we're being blocked out from the bribery channels unfairly..."

    I can see how that might be an issue.

  • B.S. Thy Name is Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)

    by oh_my_080980980 (773867) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:12AM (#15033482)
    Yes this was reported earlier, though I do not remember if Microsoft "formally" requested help from the U.S. An official from the DOJ was telling the EU that they should treat Microsoft fairly and that official held up the U.S.'s Anti-trust case as an example on how to treat Microsoft.

    Thankfully the EU, so far, has told the U.S. (in some many words), to go F@$# itself. Rolling over is not the way to treat Microsoft. The EU has legitimate gripes with MS. MS failed to deliver documentation explaining one of their APIs, with which program can be made to work with Windows. This is gross negligence on MS's part.

    The irony is it takes a foreign governmental body to discipline a mis-behaving U.S. company.

    Oh Teddy Roosevelt where are you when we need you!

  • everyone against MS (Score:4, Funny)

    by leuk_he (194174) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:14AM (#15033505) Homepage
    It has also accused the commission of collaborating with its rivals in the software industry
    You would get paranoid too if everyone is against you.

    -- AC because everyone is against me.

  • From the Article (Score:4, Funny)

    by Orrin Bloquy (898571) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:15AM (#15033511) Journal
    "Steve Ballmer was quoted as saying, 'I'm gonna fuckin' kill(R) Europe!' It's the final countdown!"

  • Conflict of Interest (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Foofoobar (318279) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:17AM (#15033520)
    Since Microsoft is still under government observation for being a Monopoly, it would be a conflict of interest to interefere. Plus, what the US Government is getting is a one sided story and as any good diplomat will know is to get both side.

    Politicians may want to get involved but diplomats will not. Watch the days coming to see which politicos are dumping their Microsoft stock and that will give you a good idea of what is to come.

  • It's probably counter productive (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Aceticon (140883) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:30AM (#15033620)
    Given the current public opinion in Europe about the current US Administration, i kinda doubt that what amounts to a request from the Bush administration to "Cut some slack with Big American Company" would actually produce any positive results.

    Most likelly it will make no difference.

    Possible it might actually make things worse for MS.

    Additionally that they even asked just reinforces the widespread opinion here in Europe that the US administration (and by association the Americal people) believe that the whole world should play by made-in-US rules except themselfs.

  • Be fair and fine 'em 80 Billion (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kabocox (199019) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:48AM (#15033755)
    You know although one always hears about politicans being bribed/lobbied in one way or another. I doubt that the US could do anything if the EU decides to impose a large hefty fine of several XX billions on Microsoft. I don't know if anyone here kept track of the dividing of the spoils after that tobacco lawsuit a few years ago? The US states were more than happy to take that money. If the EU basically puts down a fine of several billion or a flat ban on the sale of any MS OS in the EU, you'll see MS either shutting up and trying to pay as quietly as possible or yelling and screaming while paying the EU.

    I hate to be really cruel, but if they really wanted to pound it into MS that they've been bad, they'd set up a percentage to be used funding open source government software solutions for nearly ever level of EU government. Actually, in several respects it makes sense for the EU to do that anyway just to stick to a US company and use the money to fund domestic EU programing groups.

    I'd actually be shocked if MS didn't try to use the US government to get around other government's fines if at all possible. Part of me wants to say that it would be a bad idea preventing/limiting the sale of MS OS and Office apps in the EU, but then there is the other part of me that says that the EU has just as many able programmers as the US and should be able to come up with their own EU version of MS in 3-5 years. I'd also be interested if India or China developed their own OS and/or office products. Both markets should be able to support a lively local OS/Office suite.

  • Should the EU express "concerns" about US motives? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by golodh (893453) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:53AM (#15033798)
    I have two points here. My first point is that the "US" here is the current administration. The same administration that made the DOJ drop its case against Microsoft. The same Microsoft that had launched an all-out lobbying offensive after it was convicted by judge Jackson, and had made substantial campaign contributions.

    As far as I can see, the DOJ did not drop the case for juridical reasons, but for political ones. As in the new adminstration didn't want this case to go any further.

    Why might one ask? Well ... one consideration might be that on the whole it wouldn't be in the US interest at all to see its great software champion cut up into "Opsco" and "Appsco" (an Operating System division and an Application Software division). So that competition laws would have to take a backseat to National Interest (which certainly would be a legitimate point of view). I'm sure though that conspiracy theorists could come up with other, less savory, alternatives.

    Therefore, err ..., might the EU be justified in expressing "substantial concerns" about "US" motives for having such 'substantial concerns about the whether Microsoft is being treated fairly'?

    My second point is that this whole charade began 2 years ago. In 2004. After Microsoft was found guilty of violating EU competition laws and was ordered to disclose publish the API's that allow Windows Clients to interact with Windows Servers, so as to allow others (SUN, IBM, HP, and Samba) to make their OS act as Windows Server to Windows Clients and to allow their clients to log into Windows Servers.

    Does that seem reasonsable? I think it does. Because if that sort of inter-operability isn't available then anyone trying to sell a competitor to Windows Server will have to convince their prospect that their (ubiquitous) Windows desktop machines will be running crippled when logging in to their proposed servers. And because anyone pushing Linux desktops will have to explain why it isn't important that they won't be able to work well with their prospect's (widely used) Windows Servers. Either way Microsoft would be using its current monopoly position as a competitive weapon, which is illegal.

    Therefore requiring the API's to be published, open, and usable sounds like honest enforcement of competition laws to me. Now Microsoft had 2 whole years to come up with the required documentation.

    And what did Microsoft do? They:

    1. published an API documentation that its own appointed expert described as useless, and an independent software auditing firm characterised as "designed to maximise pagecount while minimising the amount of useful information"
    2. produced a load of reports from large universities stating that no-one could rightly expect anything as complicated as Windows Client-Server communications to be adequately documented
    3. offered source-code on conditions that were characterised as "poisoned offerings" by their (US !) competitors and whose licensing terms preclude Open Source products from ever being able to use them.
    4. shouted loudly they had "more than complied"
    5. tried to open the proceedings so that they could play to the gallery

    Now does that sound as if they were trying to comply with a reasonable request or if they were just trying to get things done their way? I think the latter.

    And now that they seem to have lost traction in the EU courts and have reached the deadline they chant that "fines are not the solution" and bring in their big brother to apply some pressure. Well ... it would be a good stunt if they get can away with it, but I'm not sure if this is something we should be happy with.

  • Summary of being "fair" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MosesJones (55544) on Friday March 31 2006, @11:11AM (#15033917) Homepage

    What MS are after is the same fair treatment that received in US courts, they find it unbelievable that they should actually have to PROVE compliance with a courts decisions and that being found as a monopoly engaged in deliberately predatory approaches should have any punishment doesn't make sense for an organisation used to dealing with the good ole DoJ.

    Its quite simply ridiculous that the EU should find a company guilty of being a monopoly that uses that position to crush its opposition AND THEN require the company to change its behaviour. This is a very childish position for the EU to take in this globalised era, sure it might have been okay back with Standard Oil and Bell to force monopolies to change, but that was a different time when goverments actually had some say in how the world worked.

    The EU should clearly back down, pay Microsoft compensation for wasting their time, sign software patents into Law and give Microsoft the job of validating them.

    Its either that or Microsoft would have to operate legally.

    • Re:Run run as fast as you can, you can't catch me. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by lbrandy (923907) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:14AM (#15033499)
      So when Microsoft plays unfairly with it's competitors it's fine. But when the EU does it to them, they run to daddy?

      I think you suffer from a serious prospective problem. You sound like my 5 year old cousin whining after he gets caught.. "but he hit me first". Just because they have done Bad Things(TM) in the past doesn't give anyone the right to do Bad Things(TM) to them in the present. Their hearing should be fair... and I don't think it's too much to ask. The entire point of "freedom" and "liberty" is that things are fair for all, even those with whom we disagree... cheering and hoping for injustice against your opponents is borderline facism.

      That being said, until I get something other then vague generalities about "documents", it's going to be impossible to convince me that anything unfair is actually occurring.

      • Re:Run run as fast as you can, you can't catch me. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Tom (822) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:49AM (#15033761) Homepage Journal
        Their hearing should be fair...

        Yes, but...

        That being said, until I get something other then vague generalities about "documents", it's going to be impossible to convince me that anything unfair is actually occurring.

        Exactly. They are being treated fairly. They just claim that they aren't. Just their latest attempt at making the EU fall over like the US did. They hope that somewhere, someone will whisper in the right ears that after those accusations, the punishment should not be too stiff, because it would confirm the (baseless) accusations.

        Diplomatic games, that's all.

      • Re:Why?! (Score:5, Informative)

        by malkavian (9512) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:26AM (#15033591) Homepage
        Actually, it goes more like:
        US company comes into EU, gets treated nicely.
        Said company breaks laws in EU, gets taken to court (anti trust).
        Company gets upset that people have told it that it's being naughty, asks US to back it up, because it's not fair, people are picking on it.
        US tells company to grow up and deal with it like everyone else.

    • Re:Mummy, mummy, bad people try to scare me (Score:4, Insightful)

      by diegocgteleline.es (653730) on Friday March 31 2006, @10:44AM (#15033722)
      Because this will help them to look like they're the poor guys at the eyes of everybody. "Help us, the EU is paranoid and we can do nothing to stop them!"

      The EC is asking them to do things like ie: Documenting some propietary protocols which they use between windows clients and windows servers, because 95% of the clients are windows clients and hence non-microsoft servers can't compete fairly even if they're able to build better products than microsoft. Other companies document things [apple.com] but they know that if they start to be fair with competition and document things their competitors may break their monopoly. Unsurprisingly, Microsoft is trying to do everything they can to stop it, because even if they document those things only for european programmers, they products created with that documentation can be sold in the rest of the world. So Microsoft is trying to look like the poor guy and make the EC look like it's being obssesive and hates US companies (like Europe cares about that, Microsoft competitors are all american companies aswell).

      Hey, fighting worked in the US when the US government failed to protect true competition, why wouldn't it work again.
        • It's fair for the EU to ask for documentation, but every attempt by MS to give them anything has resulted in the EU throwing it away. At the moment, it looks like the EU have already decided to fine MS no matter what they do, which isn't fair even for a company with a bad history.

          Microsoft is doing anything and everything to NOT obey the courts order. They are supplying half-assed documentation that the oversite expert ( suggsted by Microsoft ) says the document is useless. They haven't done the "unbundling" that they were ordered to do either.

    • Re:Success of the DOJ settlement? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ScriptedReplay (908196) on Friday March 31 2006, @11:34AM (#15034104)
      FTA: ""[Microsoft] lawyers mentioned the success of the settlement with the Department of Justice at least 15 times during their presentations today."
      Well, which success are they speaking about?

      Why, of course it was a success. They managed to escape Judge Jackson's decision to have the company split and have it replaced by a joke. Then managed to also get rejected the objections Mass. raised to said joke. Overall, I'd say it was a huge success ... for MSFT.

      Heh, this quote of Jackson's from wikipedia puts it clearly enough:
      Microsoft executives had "proved, time and time again, to be inaccurate, misleading, evasive, and transparently false. ... Microsoft is a company with an institutional disdain for both the truth and for rules of law that lesser entities must respect. It is also a company whose senior management is not averse to offering specious testimony to support spurious defenses to claims of its wrongdoing."
      Yet the DoJ rolled over and played dead. How's that for success?

      Now, of course, they'd like the EU trial to be just as ... erm ... successful. So far, the above quote accurately describes MSFT's behavior in this case as well.

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