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Last Peacekeeper Deactivated 64
Inthewire writes "The United States Air Force deactivated the last of 50 Peacekeeper missiles yesterday. The Peacekeeper was an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile capable of accurately placing a 300 Kt W-87 warhead on ten individual targets."
Hmm, what to do with 50 deactivated missles... (Score:3, Funny)
In other news... (Score:3, Funny)
In other news, officals proudly announced a new line of "war causer" missles, capable of spreading fear, hate and missinformation to everyone on the planet in seconds.
They claimed that the new system, though quantitatively more expensive than the peacekeepers, was scrumulously cheaper. And that price didn't matter, since it could be paid for with an agressive series of tax cuts. And if it did turn out to be expensive, the blaim lay with state and local officials for not asking for the system sooner.
When asked how the news system differed from the existing network of communications satilites, a spokesperson wailed "Won't somebody think of the children?" while the reporter was dragged from the room by Homeland Security.
There were no further questions.
--MarkusQ
Re:In other news... (Score:1)
Re:In other news... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:In other news... (Score:1, Troll)
I morn the loss of our ability to destroy a city on the other side of the planet without sending troops- because in the end, that will be the only thing that stops terrorism.
Re:In other news... (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is two fold:
1) A weapon used is a useless weapon. If you have to use a weapon, it obvously is not a strong enough deterrent to a war.
2) Targeted weapon systems rely on continuous communication back to home base. Yes there are backup systems (such as geographical pattern matching), but this is only on a subset of arsonal, and these systems are less reliable and easier to fool.
While a terrorist group isn't a major strategic threat ou
Re:In other news... (Score:1)
If your enemy is eliminated by the weapon, the enemy is no longer a threat -- a weapon that accomplishes that in the small or the large is certainly not "useless".
While a terrorist group isn't a major strategic threat outside of their home environment, there are still rogue nations, most of which are within grasp of the power to knock out our GPS satellites one way or another.
Once y
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
You forgot to include: "if you feel the need to ask that question then the terrorists have already won".
without comment (Score:4, Insightful)
Date and cost of final deployment (from TFA second source)
Re:without comment (Score:3, Informative)
Date and cost of final deployment
What's your point? The CCCP trying to keep up with those kinds of numbers was a contributing factor to the fall of the wall.
Re:without comment (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's it. Some analysts feel they essentially went bankrupt. Between the MX, the Space Shuttle, the B2, etc. etc. etc. the capitalist society could just out-produce and the Kremlin felt a need to keep parity. Reagan certainly egged them on and Gorbechev may have allowed it to happen.
Re:without comment (Score:5, Insightful)
The Soviet Union collapsed under its own weight. Ronald Reagan had nothing to do with it. The belief that he won the Cold War basically hinges on Reagan saying, "Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!", and then Gorby saying, "Holy shit! Better do what the Gipper says, or he'll sick Bonzo [imdb.com] on us!"
The real cause of the collapse has more to do with the intrinsic inefficiencies in command economies. Especially command economies where the commands are enforced under penalty of death. The Kremlin tells you to make 50 widgets for 10 rubles each, you'll make 50 widgets and say they cost 10 rubles each. The may have cost 12, but you're sure as hell aren't going to say that, since you'll be sent off the gulag for failure. So produce them for a loss. Repeat across pretty much all sectors of the economy, and repeat for 70 years, and of course the economy is going to fail. Why do you think China is now effectively a capitalist economy?
Did Reagan's SDI (aka "Star Wars") plan have anything to do with Soviet collapse? Not according to the Gorbechev and the KGB. When SDI was announced, Gorby asked if it was a threat, and the KGB said no. They (rightfully) said that any antiballistic missle system has intrinsic engineering challenges that the US couldn't overcome with the technology currently available, or even available in the near term. And effective countermeasures to the proposed systems were already available. But most damning of all, the cheapest countermeasure would be to simply overwhelm the defenses by launching more missles in the first wave.
I remember the fall of the Iron Curtain. Yeltsin on the tank out side the Russian White House. The tanks rolling in. The crowds surrounding the tanks, and talking to the tank crews. Then watching the tanks turn around and defend Yeltsin. I remember the second wave of tanks, also being stopped by the crowds, and the previous tank crews. It was remarkable that no one died in '91, ala Tiananmen in '89.
It was confusing. It was scary. No one. No one knew what was going on in Russia. The Baltics broke away in less than a week. Then Ukraine, and then everyone else. The press didn't know what was happening. The public didn't know. The US government sure as hell didn't know.
A couple of years ago I was friends with the guy from Moscow who was my age, and I asked him about the collapse. I asked him what happened. I told him I watched it on live television, and no one knew what was actually happening. We knew the events, but no the larger picture. I told him that to this day, I am still mystified to why it collapsed when it did, and how it did. What did he tell me? "I have no idea either."
If you absolutely have to say who one the Cold War for the West, there's really only one choice. Mikhail Gorbachev. His Glastnost and Perestroika effected the internal dynamic of the Soviet Union, more than nukes in Wyoming ever did. In all honesty, the west should have realized how perilous the situation in the Soviet Union was when it was revealed that Gorbachev's wife, Raisa, had an American Express card.
Re:without comment (Score:2)
My wife is Armenian, and her countrymen claim [at least partial] responsibility for the fall of the CCCP. Basically the satelite states were in financial distress, and receiving less and less prioritized resources from the Kremlin. Armenia and a few other Soviet blocks were land-locked. The CCCP made use of distributated manufacturing. When building a widget, each member state was responsible for making some
Re:without comment (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly. That's why the collapse of the Soviet Union was followed in short order by the collapse of Cuba, North Korea, and China, all of whom also transformed themselves into fledgling if flawed democracies.
Oh, wait...
Reagan didn't cause the collapse. But to say that the economic and military policies had no effect is just nonsense.
Re:without comment (Score:1)
Oh, wait...
The notion that all we had to do was sell people Big Macs and then they'd become democracies is, and always was, a lie. It was a fraud perpetrated by those who wanted to take advantage of cheap labor and lax labor and enviornmental laws. There was never any evidence that wanting material goo
Re:without comment (Score:2)
Wow, did you miss the point. The grandparent post indicated that the Soviet Union fell apart solely under the weight of central planning and that the Reagan policies played no role. I was making the point -- through sarcasm, which apparently you missed -- that if central planning alone were enough to propel a nation into a law-based democracy, we'd have seen the same happen to North Korea, Cuba, and China. And of course none of those three
Re:without comment (Score:1)
I'm saying that internal economics was the primary cause for the collapse of the Soviet Union, and communist regimes throughout eastern Europe. I don't think that's really under dispute here.
It sounds like you're sayint that Reagan's poilicies was the little extra that was needed to shove them to emergening democracies. If this is the what you are saying, then I disagree. Reagan's policy towards the USSR was primarily an unprecedented peacetime millitary build up. That really isn't
Re:without comment (Score:2)
Re:without comment (Score:1)
You're right. But it has more to do with the priorities of a communist (especially Stalinist and Maoist) states, rather than any 1980s American military policy.
Re:without comment (Score:2)
The fact of the matter is, most people in the Soviet Union didn't really like Communism. Even people in government. It was a self-perpetuating political party. The status quo. You had to obey, because you knew you'd be punished. And the people who did the punishing had to do their job because that's just how it worked. It was their job.
When the perestroika and glastnost came about in the early 80s, there were significant advancements in f
Nice timing... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Nice timing... (Score:1)
Re:Nice timing... (Score:1)
Gotta love that Ministry of Truth (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Gotta love that Ministry of Truth (Score:5, Insightful)
Si vis pacem para bellum
"If you desire peace, prepare for war"
Don't blame it on dogma, blame it on human nature.
Re:Gotta love that Ministry of Truth (Score:2)
Si vis pacem para bellum
My father flew planes for the Strategic Air Command (the branch of the US Air Force that deploys bombers and missles). I grew up reading the SAC motto posted at the entrance to most of their bases: "Peace Is Our Profession".
Probably would have sounded even better in Latin.
Re:Gotta love that Ministry of Truth (Score:3, Informative)
Does sound better in Latin.
Compliments of Latin Translator [translation-guide.com]
Re:Gotta love that Ministry of Truth (Score:2)
Wasn't it Einstein who said "You cannot prepare for peace and war simutaneously"?
Re:Gotta love that Ministry of Truth (Score:3, Interesting)
I hate the phrase "Human nature". It's nature period. Dogs and even roaches have the same tactics that we commonly deamonize in our war-mongering leaders.
If anything the only distinctly human elements are those that require at least 2 orders of abstraction. Namely the concepts of civil disobediance and "turning the other cheeck". This constitutes a direct passive aggressive response to an aggressive act. It's very hard to do, and the motiviations requir
Re:Gotta love that Ministry of Truth (Score:1)
Obligatory... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Obligatory... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Obligatory... (Score:1)
This... Is dead. (Score:1)
more silos for sale ? (Score:1)
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010815
http://itotd.com/index.alt?ArticleID=282 [itotd.com]
Obsolete Before Operational (Score:2)
Re:Obsolete Before Operational (Score:2)
The whole idea of stability is not perfect members, but enough of them so that if one fails, the others can carry the balance. The very heavy reliance the US has/d on nukes.
Re:Obsolete Before Operational (Score:2)
I think the Cold War could have ended a lot worse than it did. But because of nuclear deterrents, a balance was established and then the country who went bankrupt first, lost the stand-off.
Also, if nuclear weapons haven't been available, there would've been other weapons to replace it. For example, there would've been a very wide proliferatoin of biological and chemical weapons, as well as conventional millitary. There would have been a need to have a much larger
Re:Obsolete Before Operational (Score:2)
Won? not likely, but it does help. (Score:2, Insightful)
The only problem I have with the article is it didn't win the Cold War, it did help us in it. But the only way we "won" the cold war was not by our hand. When the USSR was falling apart and the end was nigh, it was by the grace of god that the leaders of the falling communist state, didn't just say "fuck it" and launch their missles.
It was by their work, not our work that the end was peaceful as it was, at that point it wasn't a deterent because look at them no
Re:Won? not likely, but it does help. (Score:2)
The problem with the change over was that it wasn't "that" peaceful (though your right relatively it was), tanks were mobilized in the street, there was attacks on goverment buildings. It's not about lifes being at stake, it's about loss of power. The people losing power knew they likely wouldn't gain power again easily, especially after the west's work to poison the name of Communism (My opinion is that it was a good
Re:Won? not likely, but it does help. (Score:1, Troll)
Apparently, you don't listen to talk radio. Don't you know that Ronald Reagan was the reason we won the cold war?
Re:Won? not likely, but it does help. (Score:2)
If that were the case, we never would've made it
Farscape??? (Score:3, Funny)
Come on people!
Keeping the peace... with nukes. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Keeping the peace... with nukes. (Score:2)
The best defense is a good offence.
Re:Keeping the peace... with nukes. (Score:2)
Ballot Box Bunny (Score:3, Funny)
Bugs Bunny: I speak softly, but I carry a big stick!
Yosemite Sam: Oh yeah? Well I speak loouuud, and I carry a biiigger stick! And I use it too!
Dr. Strangelove (Score:2)
Dr. S - The whole point of the doomsday machine is lost . . . if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, ay?!
Peace Keeper" was the most ironic name of all time (Score:1)
With the introduction of the "Peace Keeper" with 10 warheads in Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicles (MIRVs, thus 10 MIRVs = MX) that blip could mean nothing, or ten missiles with enough warhead to lay waste to every major city and military target in the USSR, Thus
Re:Peace Keeper" was the most ironic name of all t (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Peace Keeper" was the most ironic name of all t (Score:2)
Where did I say we would fire 1?
How did having 10 warheads on 50 missiles make a difference in DETERENCE when we already had 2000+ missiles? Is there some tipping point in MAD that I don't know about?
As for you comments about terrorism, terrorism was barely used before Reagan capitulated to terrorists and at least half of suicide bombers are secular, not muslim extremists.
Talkin
Bolton? (Score:2)
I know that Bolton isn't too fond of the UN, but who would have thought he'd be so quickly effective at shutting down so many major UN operations?
Yikes! (Score:2)