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Slashdot Goes Political: Announcing politics.slashdot.org 1045

Posted by CmdrTaco from the tis-the-season dept.
With the US Presidential Election coming up, we've had a lot of story submissions that we would like to post, but they don't fit very well on the Slashdot main page. To address this, we'll be running special political coverage between now and the election in our new Politics subsection of Slashdot. Please submit stories directly to the section for consideration. As with all sections on Slashdot, there will be stories available within that section that don't get posted to the main page, so please visit the section if you are interested in more coverage. We'll do our best to be fair with story selection. We think we can do a good job since the Slashdot editors represent a diverse spectrum of political ideologies. The discussions are up to you guys. Here's hoping the experiment works!
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Slashdot Goes Political: Announcing politics.slashdot.org More

Slashdot Goes Political: Announcing politics.slashdot.org

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  • Funniest. Summary. Ever. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:09AM (#10177764)
    We'll do our best to be fair with story selection. We think we can do a good job since the Slashdot editors represent a diverse spectrum of political ideologies.
    LMAO!

  • Malda-Bates 2004! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gevmage ( 213603 ) * on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:09AM (#10177765) Homepage
    It had to be said.

    Rob's platform:

    • Suspected terrorists will have Rob's in-box forwarded to them until they turn themselves in for questioning. Even if people could stand the flood of messages, their ISPs would turn them in just to get them off the system.
    • Hmm...the people with the 10 highest karma scores (I know the numbers are hidden, but they're still available internally) get cabinet positions.

  • Politics on Slashdot? Never! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:09AM (#10177769)
    Every discussion has some sort of political slant to it. You are somehow labeled as "right" or "left" depending on the whim of the moderators or random members of the community. People routinely claim you are some sort of radical communist [slashdot.org] just because you don't support the paying-off of public servants to create laws that benefit only the corporations. Obviously this is just one small example but it certainly reflects a good bit of what I experience here... We might really want to think about how the normal Slashdot moderation system is handled on this side of the site.

    If anything Karma changes should be eliminated due to politically motivated moderation in this section. Some serious damage could occur to someone's account that is diametrically opposed to the rest of the Slashdot mentality.

    I have been scouring books, articles, and random conversation for some intelligent and fair discussion about the state of politics today. I doubt that I will find too much "intelligent discussion" and I know we won't find any fairness here on Slashdot but we can always have hope ;-)
    • agreed having karma effected by politics is going to be fucking ridiculous and every 2nd post will be flamebait or troll.

    • Re:Politics on Slashdot? Never! (Score:5, Funny)

      by TopShelf ( 92521 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:13AM (#10177825) Homepage Journal
      Serious damage and Slashdot karma just don't belong in the same sentence...

    • Re:Politics on Slashdot? Never! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Ford Prefect ( 8777 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:16AM (#10177877) Homepage
      You are somehow labeled as "right" or "left" depending on the whim of the moderators or random members of the community.

      Really old, but I happened to be thinking of it earlier today - the Political Compass [politicalcompass.org]. Apparently I'm way off to the left, and down a bit.

      Maybe all posters in this new section should take said test so that posters with conflicting views may safely ignore viewpoints that they disagree with. After all, there's a place for partisan publishing [guardian.co.uk] (scroll down a bit...) ;-)
      • I just took the Political Compass and the test in itself is quite skewed. Questions like:

        Abstract art that doesn't represent anything shouldn't be considered art at all.

        Aren't political questions. There are many questions like this. If anyone would like to take a real political quiz, try The Worlds Smallest Political Quiz [self-gov.org]
      • I stopped after the first question:

        If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations.

        Economic globalization is inevitable. Humanity and "trans-national corporations" aren't an either/or choice as beneficiaries.

        That question is just another version of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

    • I'd like to think... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mongoose Disciple ( 722373 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:16AM (#10177882)
      ... that as long as people are writing posts that inform and explain their viewpoint, they won't be modded down, even by people who disagree. A one sentence-post espousing an unpopular viewpoint, yes, is basically a troll or flamebait. A paragraph or so explaining why the author has that viewpoint and some of the facts/reasoning behind it shouldn't be. These are the kinds of posts that make for stimulating discussion that enriches us all, even if you don't agree.

      It's possible I'm just a rosy-glassed optimist, but I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope.

      • Re:I'd like to think... (Score:5, Funny)

        by stienman ( 51024 ) <.adavis. .at. .ubasics.com.> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:31AM (#10178143) Homepage Journal
        It's possible I'm just a rosy-glassed optimist, but I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope.

        Obviously thinly veiled references to the rosary, cross, and christian 'hope', you sneaky troll.

        Oh, wait, this isn't the religion section is it?

        Politics?

        Well that's essentially the same thing. Flame on!

        -Adam
      • A one sentence-post espousing an unpopular viewpoint, yes, is basically a troll or flamebait. A paragraph or so explaining why the author has that viewpoint and some of the facts/reasoning behind it shouldn't be.

        Who considers what is popular or unpopular? While you may think a one sentence post espousing abortion rights is "popular" I may think of it as flamebait.

        Hopefully mods can lay off modding by party/ideology. What may seem popular to you might not be popular at all.

        A little bit more on p

    • Re:Politics on Slashdot? Never! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jamie ( 78724 ) <jamie@slashdot.org> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:16AM (#10177893) Journal
      I would hope that moderators are fair enough to send comments up or down depending on their quality, not whether their point of view is agreeable. Even if someone says something we completely disagree with, as long as they say it well and bring facts to the table, it is worth hearing.

      My guess is that there will be many otherwise-unremarkable posts which will be moderated up simply because they express a popular point of view forcefully, and, as always, meta-moderators are encouraged to mark lame upmods as Unfair. If a post isn't any more Insightful than average, but gets moderated that way, then rigorous meta-moderation [slashdot.org] will help the system, next time around, give mod points to someone else who deserves them more.

      • I would hope that moderators are fair enough to send comments up or down depending on their quality, not whether their point of view is agreeable. Even if someone says something we completely disagree with, as long as they say it well and bring facts to the table, it is worth hearing.

        Mod deviationist down!
    • The key point here is that politics has been here all along. The editors have always taken a mixed view of this - on the one hand, there is Michael, the most overtly political of the current editors, and there was Jon Katz, who was blatantly political (that's NOT why we hated him editors, it was because of his whininess and rage-filled, massive rants - if his writings were halfway intelligent, they would have at least been given a fair audience).

      And as you point out Garcia, politics have been part of not

    • Well finally! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cryptochrome ( 303529 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:31AM (#10178136) Journal
      That's an interesting point about Karma, but I'm not sure how a slashdot article would work without it. The whole system depends on good comments getting modded up and stupid ones down. Perhaps we need some sort of dummy moderation message that doesn't affect score, but does allow people to register their agreement/disagreement with the opinions of the statement. Of course that might necessitate reconsideration of the existing Troll, Overrated, Underrated, and Flamebait tags.

      I've been asking for this section for a while. News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters doesn't just mean tech stuff. For sure people have been trying to talk politics on many an occasion. Here's hoping this section incorporates significant current events as well. For instance, even slashdot covered the trade center bombings, but at the time they happened politics was a minor concern - disseminating news of the event being the primary one.

      While they're at it, they should make a general "Entertainment" section as well to let all you fanboys rant and rave about your favorite series (yay Farscape) without having to subject everyone to things few people care about (boo Firefly). Only the really big shows need to make the front page, but that doesn't mean there aren't other things people want to cover.

      Can anyone think of any other sections that should be added? I feel like I'm forgetting one that I thought of before...

    • Re:Politics on Slashdot? Never! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by vasqzr ( 619165 ) <vasqzr@@@netscape...net> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:44AM (#10178316)
      Look at Slashdot's "Hall of Fame"

      4183 Strike on Iraq by CmdrTaco
      3314 Saddam Hussein Arrested by CmdrTaco
      3265 Fahrenheit 9/11 Discussion by CmdrTaco
      3212 What's Keeping You On Windows? by Cliff
      3042 An Unbiased Analysis of Gun Crime vs. Gun Control? by Cliff
      2764 Windows 2000 & Windows NT 4 Source Code Leaks by CmdrTaco
      2722 Pledge of Allegiance Ruled Unconstitutional by michael
      2574 Major Strike on Iraq Underway by CmdrTaco
      2549 US Starts Attacking Afghanistan by CmdrTaco
      2465 U.S. Attack -- More Updates by Hemos

      2 of those aren't 'political'

      I'm not exactly big on politics, but it looks like a large amount of readers are.
    • I believe that /. started out as very much a technology-oriented news aggregator. The addition of a politics section is just another sign of the maturation and diversification of the site as "nerds" move more and more into the mainstream of society.

    • Re:Politics on Slashdot? Never! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by demachina ( 71715 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @01:41PM (#10179963)
      If Slashdot wants to develop some political enlightenment and sophistication they need to realize politics isn't like a turn signal, left and right. Its more like a wheel with spokes in every direction.

      If someone trashes the Republicans believe it or not it doesn't necessarily mean they are a Democrat/liberal and vice versa. There are plenty of true conservatives that despise what the Republican party has turned in to and Liberals who despise the Democrats. I imagine you can chalk this up, in the U.S. at least, to a two party system which has tried to con everyone in to thinking there are only two parties and two ways to look at things and if you don't agree with one of those two, in all their current corruption, you are basically adrift in an empty ocean.

      Joe Trippi, Dean's campaign manager was on Charlie Rose on PBS recently. One thing he said I like. In 2008 there is at least a chance people are going to unite on the Internet and back an independent candidate with $300-400 million dollars coming in hundred dollar checks from millions of people and bitch slap the two major parties, a slapping they've come to gloriously deserve, especially after the pathetic candidates they've fielded in the last two presidential elections. The hope is there will be an independent candidate who will actually talk about issues, from a fresh perspective, not regurgatating the entrenched party platforms, and put an end to the campaign of the "six second sound bites of mutual assured destruction".

      The first challenge is to find a candidate with the right mix of charisma, judgement and brains. One who can form a common sense platform, on issues that matter, that will appeal to enough people to get elected and not pander to the inflammatory issues that dominate the debate between the two parties.

      The second challenge is to get this candidate on the ballot in the face of the two parties unconstitutional onslaught on third party candidates like Nader.

      The third challenge is to get this candidate enough credibility in the polls that he/she can't be dismissed as an also run and pushed in to obscurity as the media and the two parties are want to do.

      I would vote for John McCain were it not for his recent grovelling at the feet of the Bush administration, people who savaged him in 2000, and his irrational level of support for the invasion of Iraq. I would vote for Dean were it not for his grovelling at the feet of Gore and Kerry along with his penchant for saying dumb things. I'd vote for Nader if he has a chance of getting elected just to see him shake up Washington and big business and see how long it would be before someone in the establishment assassinated him. Wouldn't vote for Perot.

  • questions that matter. (Score:5, Funny)

    by sweeney37 ( 325921 ) * <mikesweeney&gmail,com> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:10AM (#10177780) Homepage Journal
    any chance for /. interviews with the candidates for the issues that concern us nerds? I mean, this new sub section would hopefully give /. a little more clout.

    Mike

  • Oh God... (Score:5, Funny)

    by romper ( 47937 ) * on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:10AM (#10177786)
    So does this mean all comments will be automatically moderated to -1 Troll? =)

    • Re:Oh God... (Score:3, Funny)

      by Donoho ( 788900 )
      I sense a great disturbance in The Force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, then were suddenly moderated to -1 Troll. I fear something terrible has happened.

  • OK, but . . . (Score:5, Insightful)

    by frankthechicken ( 607647 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:10AM (#10177792) Journal
    Can we please ban the editorials from /. editors to any political stories?

  • Non-US Elections (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Your_Mom ( 94238 ) <slashdot@in n i s m i r.net> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:11AM (#10177795) Homepage
    I'm guessing from the logo of the section that this will be a 'No', but will there be coverage of Non-US elections as well?

    • Why would there be? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by wiredog ( 43288 )
      It's a US based website, run by people in the US, and we all know that, from a USian pov, the rest of the world doesn't matter.

    • Re:Non-US Elections (Score:4, Insightful)

      by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @12:04PM (#10178612)
      I'm guessing from the logo of the section that this will be a 'No', but will there be coverage of Non-US elections as well?

      Ack, I hadn't even noticed the logo there, nothing against Americans but as a Canadian I have to say that I already see quite enough of your flag :) I have nothing against patriotism or anything but after a point the sheer quantity of stars and stripes I see around tends to get a little annoying.
      Now I can see the reasoning behind US-centric stories for the next few months, what with the election and all, but there is certainly a lot else going on in the world, even a story already in the new section on The Australian Prime Minister [slashdot.org]. Also note all the stuff currently going on in the EU relating to patents and IP, China with it's massive population and strict media control, not to mention countless other events going on all over this planet. While the majority of the IP's that hit the front page might be from the US I'm sure anyone who reads the comments can attest to a strongly international presence that shows up. I feel that using a clearly pro-American logo not only incites the "I'm not an American" trolls (seriously do they want to make this a trollfest?) but also causes the perception that the politics being discussed are isolated from the rest of the world and people outside the US can neither affect nor are being affected by it, a perception which is extremely dangerous. Politics is a truly international affair, as a Canadian I can say that I'm much more scared by who might win the US election then by any of the candidates in my own, as well American's should be greatly interested by events all over the Middle East as well as what happens in the EU and China for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure what a good logo would be but clearly an American flag is highly improper for a wide variety of reasons.

  • Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jejones ( 115979 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:11AM (#10177799) Journal
    We think we can do a good job since the Slashdot editors represent a diverse spectrum of political ideologies.

    Perhaps some examples are in order.

  • colors (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ack154 ( 591432 ) * on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:11AM (#10177801)
    At least they did a better job with the colors/logo than the nasty IT section... ;)

  • New Moderation Proposals (Score:5, Funny)

    by geeveees ( 690232 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:11AM (#10177804) Homepage Journal

    +1 Democrat

    -1 Republican

    -1 Commie Bastard

    +1 Capitalist Pig

    (Change + with - as seen fit)

  • Great... (Score:5, Funny)

    by xchino ( 591175 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:13AM (#10177826)
    How do I mod an entire section as flamebait?

    And I can see all the foriegners complaining that this is too U.S. centric :)

  • such nice colors (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dnotj ( 633262 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:13AM (#10177837) Homepage
    Lets have politics and IT exchanged in the grand scheme of color schemes.

    Not having to see the IT color scheme again in my life won't bother me one iota.

  • Section Colors (Score:5, Insightful)

    by denis-The-menace ( 471988 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:14AM (#10177844)
    Why didn't the "IT" section get the "Politics" nicer colors?

    I'm surprised that the bar in this section aren't:
    Red-FadingTo-White-FadingTo-Blue

  • american flag (Score:3, Insightful)

    by laurent420 ( 711504 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:15AM (#10177862)
    why an american flag for the /. graphic? there *are* countries outside america that practice politics. typical shortsightedness.

  • Can you fix the filtering first? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Bazman ( 4849 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:15AM (#10177864) Journal
    I suspect lots of people wont want to see the politics stuff. But the category selection stuff doesn't seem to work at the moment (there's bugreps in the slashdot bug tracker).

    Pleasey weasey?

    • Until that is fixed, we will be making a concerted effort to not put any but the most obviously worthy politics stories on the mainpage, because people cannot filter them out. I realize this also means, however, that you will get politics if you have sectioncollapse selected in your prefs. And I know that sucks. Sorry. We do want to fix it ASAP.

  • Disable Flamebait? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mr Guy ( 547690 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:15AM (#10177869) Journal
    How the heck are we going to mod this section? It sounds like EVERY comment is going to be flamebait. Then we'll have the usual problem with Non-US people griping about how unfair it is that it only covers US politics (I'm assuming here) as well as put in their two bits ON US politics. It's going to be messy!

  • Yeah, moderation will work here (Score:3, Interesting)

    by devilsadvoc8 ( 548238 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:15AM (#10177870)
    Lets just skip the moderation function in this area. Mods here already let their political view influence their moderation of "tech" subjects, let alone an overtly political thread.

    I don't care if /. puts up a political forum I just won't go there as the population here is already too narrow politically to be a fair discussion.

  • And about time (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rueger ( 210566 ) * on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:18AM (#10177922) Homepage
    I do have to say that in the last few weeks while meta-moderating I've been annoyed at the number of posts that were obviously moderated "off-topic" or "flamebait" just because the moderator didn't agree with the political slant.

    I'll also second the post that suggested that this forum should look at politics everywhere, not just the US. There is a lot to be learned by looking at the ways that other jurisdictions handle things like Digital rights, wiretapping, and freedom of speech.

    That said, I expect that I'll choose not to subscribe to the politics forum, and I doubt very much that political baiting will disappear from other parts of our beloved slashdot.

  • All stories? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ptaff ( 165113 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:23AM (#10178009) Homepage
    As with all sections on Slashdot, there will be stories available within that section that don't get posted to the main page


    For real /. geeks, would it be possible to turn on a flag to get everything on the home page? Every time I metamoderate I wonder "How come this story doesn't ring a bell?". Now I understand why.

    Clicking on each and every section to watch for missing stories is a bit lame, no?

    Feel ready to own one or many Tux Stickers [ptaff.ca]?

  • Little observation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Archimonde ( 668883 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:23AM (#10178012)
    Why only politics based on the US elections? Isn't it better to have permanent world/global politics section?
    I'm thinking here of many political themes which are quite represented on /. through this many years.

  • Bias Test (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:25AM (#10178040)
    I guess we'll see if /. can manage to be "fair and balanced", considering the rather significant slant in its readership.

    • Re:Bias Test (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Graabein ( 96715 )
      "I guess we'll see if /. can manage to be "fair and balanced", considering the rather significant slant in its readership.

      Yeah, but slant in which direction? I've seen people stating, as if it were a self-evident fact, that the majority of the /. readership is heavily left leaning, while other people are equally convinced that it's right/libertarian leaning.

      You obviously think the perceived slant is so pronounced that you don't even have to specify which way it leans (or falls over, as the case may be)

    • Well hell (Score:3, Funny)

      by sheldon ( 2322 )
      Look how well the slogan "Fair and Balanced" has worked for Fox News!

      The editors of Pravda would have been proud.

  • Good! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by repetty ( 260322 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:27AM (#10178084) Homepage
    Anything that can be done to excise politcal diatribes from technical discussions is fine by me.

    It had gotten to the point where I avoided even looking at some Slashdot topics I suspected might lend themselves to degrading into political rants. That sorely broke my heart.

    I'm glad you guys are helping out. I know that there are no promises but I'm happy that, at least, my chances of reading about Bill Clinton's use of cigars while learning about a new ReiserFS enhancement or George Bush's "lies, lies, lies" while hearing feedback about a Linux roll-out somewhere are reduced.

    You can make that political forum lean as far left or as far right as you like because there's no damn way I'm going to even take a peek.

    --Richard

    PS: Yeah, I know that technology is
    intertwined with politics but you
    know what I mean. Less is better and
    you just do what you can.

  • Whew just in time... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DA_MAN_DA_MYTH ( 182037 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:40AM (#10178259) Homepage Journal
    Right after a 11 point swing since the RNC.

    Let's look at the news stories so far...

    Hackers Take Aim at Republicans [slashdot.org]

    Bikes Against Bush Creator Busted [slashdot.org]

    I think it's a good idea to have this channel, but I would really like to see both parties represented. With the occasional third and fourth party representation, cause the hippies and the anarchists should have a voice too.

  • I have a concern with the flag (Score:4, Insightful)

    by xutopia ( 469129 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:50AM (#10178409) Homepage
    why is it that American politics always has to do with patriotism? In my observation patriotism shouldn't have anything to do with politics. It's demagogy at best and we see it way too much in American politics.

    Shouldn't slashdot be better than that? If one party decides to use (overuse) the American flag then the slashdot logo will look like it talks only about that party.

    PS: In my observation most parties who use the patriotism argument are the ones which care least about the people. In France for example the one party who claimed the French flag as a symbol for it's own party is the most racist and biggoted party.

    • A more apropos symbol would be a hand coming out of a $1000 suit collecting a big wad of cash from a defense contractor, pharmaceutical or healthcare corporation.
    • I love seeing the American flag at almost any chance (being American, go figure)...

      But I always considered Slashdot a little more geographically neutral than this. I think a politics section is the best thing to happen on /. in a long while, but I think it should be a tad more inclusive.

      The US election IS the most important political thing (to me) right now, but not to everyone.

  • Invite the Candidates (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hubs99 ( 318852 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @11:59AM (#10178559)
    Why have the candidates not been asked for a slashdot style interview? Someone high up on the slashdot chain should invite both the candidates to do an email interview like what has been done in the past with interesting people. I am sure with the millions of hit that are here they might be interested.

  • I picked my pollitical party (Score:3, Funny)

    by Orion Blastar ( 457579 ) <orionblastar@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @12:05PM (#10178630) Homepage Journal
    The Pirate Party of the USA. We are like the Democratic or Republican party, only we don't lie about our motives. If we invade another country, it will be over the loot and plundering. We won't lie about WMDs, etc. Yeah it is all about the oil, after that pipeline is build, booty for all with cheaper oil! Make Saddam walk the plank into a shark infested water. :)

  • Politics makes more than strange bedfellows. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday September 07, 2004 @03:31PM (#10181609) Homepage Journal
    It makes otherwise intelligent people complete closed minded idiots.

    It's a well established fact that people seek out information which confirms their current opinion and actively screen out information which challenges it. Look at a programmer struggling with a bug or a user with a user interface and you can see it. Politics takes this natural human cognitive strategy and infuses it with emotion, value judgements and ego identification. This means that while in most situations people will eventually begin to take new information into account, in politics this practically never happens. The more we are confronted with truths that challenge our political positions, the more strongly we warp our sense of reality to suit our predjudices.

    Any reasonable person from another planet would immediately come to some obvious conclusions:

    On the economy, Bush got smacked down by an overdue correction in the business cycle and 9/11. His tax cuts probably gave the economy a short term stimulus. However, the long term effects of his policies are debatable.

    Kerry has a realtively normal legislative career. He sometimes votes for one version of a bill and against another one, or for a particular thing by itself but against it when it's lumped with a bunch of other things he doesn't like. However, his career as a legislator is rather undistinguished.

    Mr. Impartial Observer would also label Michael Moore a propagandist, and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth a bunch of vile political hatchetmen.

    External validation feels good, but it is not intellectually honest. If the moderation system could be tweaked to encourage people to reevaluate their positions and look at the truth, it would be a great acccomplishment.

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