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G8 Summit Aims To Kill International Piracy
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:13 PM
from the this-can-only-end-well dept.
from the this-can-only-end-well dept.
arcticstoat writes "Next week, the G8 summit will discuss proposals for new international piracy laws, which include border controls and cooperation from ISPs to identify pirates. The laws will also prevent ISPs from being liable for copyright infringement. If the G8 summit were to agree on these measures and enforce them through international cooperation, could they really cut down piracy, or would they be impractical to enforce?"
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Huh?! (Score:5, Funny)
What the ....?! I thought G8 were working actively _AGAINST_ global warming, and now THIS?!
Outrageous!
Religious Persecution! Mod parent FUNNY (Score:5, Informative)
The parent post neglected to clarify the reference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#Pirates_and_global_warming [wikipedia.org]
For those who believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Pirates are considered divine beings and the decrease in the number of pirates in the word (acording to followers of the FSM) id the true cause of global warming. Ergo, this can be seen as religious persecution!
This, of course, is a religious view which I will neither refute nor defend in this forum.
Parent
Re:Religious Persecution! Mod parent FUNNY (Score:5, Funny)
This, of course, is a religious view which I will neither refute nor defend in this forum.
Hah! Unbeliever. As a true FSMer I would gladly give your life for my religion!
RAmen.
Parent
News Flash (Score:5, Insightful)
Rich people come together to discuss ways of solving problems that annoy rich people, while ignoring those problems that are genuinely harmful to most people.
The very questionable belief that anything that is problematic for a rich person ultimately winds up harming the poor is once again offered as justification.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Parent
Re:Religious Persecution! Mod parent FUNNY (Score:4, Informative)
Pastafarianism fail. Ramen is traditionally said at the end of prayers, as an equivalent to Amen.
Parent
Re:Religious Persecution! Mod parent FUNNY (Score:5, Funny)
(With excuses to William Shakespeare)
Parent
Re:Huh?! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Huh?! (Score:5, Funny)
As a socially conscious person, is there a way I can download songs which only causes kitten killing? :-P
Cheers
Parent
What kind of pirates? (Score:5, Insightful)
Data pirates or ship-hijacking pirates? Oh data pirates. You'd think they'd deal with the other type first.
Re:What kind of pirates? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. A lot of people don't realize just how many actual ship-hijacking pirates their really are. Parts of Africa, especially near Somalia, are rife with them, as are the Straits of Malacca.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Which "costs" more to the economies (read: businesses and campaign contributions) of the participating nations?
If this were a summit of PacRim & SE Asian countries, you might have a point.
Re:What kind of pirates? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ignoring for a moment you parenthesis, I fail to see how piracy impacts the economies of other-than-US states.
When most of your software is produced abroad, and your indigenous culture sells much less than Hollywood to your own people, then why should you protect the mostly-US copyrights ?
Take for example the new French anti-piracy, 3 strikes law. It's obvious that most movies and most software (Games, Windows, Office) transferred by the pirates is of US origin. I would go even further, and say that if the pirates would no longer pay for American bits, and Americans themselves won't pay for french bits, the result would be a net win for France, lowering the import/export deficit - more money left to develop France, and less in Ballmer's account.
In this perspective, the initiative of Sarkozy strikes me as very treacherous towards the French people - why should the French government protect the US copyright more aggressive than US themselves ? Hey, I can understand a little tap on the back from the US, but Sarkozy should protect his voters from US, not herd them like cattle into paying for imports.
Parent
Re:What kind of pirates? (Score:5, Interesting)
France needs the US's help (just as the US needs France's help) in ensuring that the IP of their companies is respected worldwide.
Well, you can't have the cake and eat it too - it's either you have a net income or a net deficit when you substract the IP you buy from what you sell. Import/export is a zero-sum game, someone sells more and someone buys more, it's impossible that all economies sell more than they buy.
It just so happens that most economies in the world have a financial deficit, and US has an enormous excess, when it comes to the type of bits pirates swap for free (movies, popular software etc). So it makes sense to say that US should lead the "global fight against piracy", and not a smaller country.
Would enforcing foreign copyrights on the French people increase the respect other nations have for French IP ? No, the amount of enforcing a country is expected to do is regulated with bilateral trade agreements. Ideally (egotistically), a country should have no respect for other IP, while claim 100% respect for it's own IP, if only anyone would agree to such an asymmetric deal.
Making an example of your own people is anti-national , you should enforce as little as possible, without breaking the agreements, and thus have the maximum gain - your exports are respected and your imports are minimal. Even more so when you have, as explained above, a net financial deficit from IP.
Note that I'm not trying to imply that intellectual property is bad for the society as a whole, and that we would be better off without it; I make no claim on that issue. It's strictly an economical/diplomatic approach, what's the best course of action an economy should take.
Parent
Re:What kind of pirates? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know about your country's WTO members, but as an American I want all American WTO people tried for treason and put in front of a firing squad. And I want their companies' buildings leveled in the most hostile manner possible and their business licenses revoked.
The WTO is anti-human. They need to be stopped by fair means or foul.
It's disgusting that this comes before my country's Independance Day. My country's government is owned by foreigners and American traitors.
Sorry for the ran but this really pisses me off.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You do realize that Treason in america is a specifically defined offense and there isn't anything that G8 members are doing that would meet that definition. It would also take a constitutional amendment to redefine Treason to include their actions that you find offensive.
That being said, I think you will carry more legitimacy and perhaps convincing weight if you can show a real criminal statute that was actually broke that the rest of Americans could believe was broke. You may be correct in that they are ba
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a difference between foreign nationals, and foreign citizens. See, most of the "patriot" types, while they have a fairly good point (as the other reply said "not unwelcome", "nor uncommon" they get the "foreigner" term because their language has been dumbed down. Most do not understand how the game of words is played out there, to their detriment.
Anyways, its one thing to be a foreign national on American soil... its another to be a US citizen or a foreign citizen. Both of those directly imply th
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I am a foreigner in your country. If I visit your country I will show you and your countrymen respect. I will try to learn your language if I don't already speak it. I will NOT try to change your laws. I will NOT try to take over your industries. I will NOT try to subvert your customs.
Sadly, most people are not like that, especially those with the money to be world-travellers; those sort think they are owed anything they wish because they have always gotten everything they wanted.
"Foreigner" is not a put-do
Re:What kind of pirates? (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you saying that foreign investments are somehow bad ? Even if the investor very carefully follows all the rules-of-play setup by that nations government ? That makes zero sense, infact most countries (including the USA) WELCOMES investments. I have several, for example.
And I also most definitely try to change your laws. I would like you to cancel the DMCA, adopt a less agressive foreign policy, agressively push science forward on renewable energies, adopt universal healthcare, and tons and tons of other changes, small and large. I openly argue my opinion, in the hope that someone will listen. Are you saying that foreigners should refrain from having an opinion on US law, or refrain from discussing it openly ?
I, both openly and secretly work to undermine and indeed utterly destroy "customs" which I consider wrong. These include the sexual mutilation of young females, the refusal to allow adult, consenting human beings to have sex with whomever they damn well please, punishment or inacceptance of people with the wrong beliefs, and a large collection of other bullshit.
Are you saying we should refrain from having an opinion, or refrain from stating it, or refrain from DOING something when we see injustice, if that injustice is on the other side of an imaginary object named a "border" ?
What's so magical about a "border" anyway ? A "country" is a human construct. I don't see a border as carrying any moral or ethical weight. I don't see that the right thing to do if my neighbour is suffering is any different if there's a border between us or not.
I'm all with you in respecting people, though. And the learning part, not only the language, but a lot more too. It's easy to critizise what you do not understand. One should always strive to *understand* what's really going on, rather than resort to knee-jerk reactions.
Parent
Re:What kind of pirates? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly there are far more Data pirates than "Board ye ship" pirates.
True, but data pirates don't kill people.
Parent
Re:What kind of pirates? (Score:4, Funny)
No, but piracy does fund terrorism.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
<PEDANTIC>
Polonium (Po), not Plutonium (Pu).
</PEDANTIC>
Only way to kill piracy .... (Score:5, Funny)
... is to hire NINJAS!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And then what? Ninjas can't beat pirates.
1. Decide to put an end to piracy.
2. Hire ninjas.
3. ???
4. FAIL!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I think you got it wrong,
1: convince people to become nijas.
2: convince government's they can defeat pirates and lease the nijas to them.
3: ??? *&@(*@(@*))
4: profit!
Arrr.... (Score:4, Funny)
Th' day ya sees th' last o' the jolly roger'll be the end o' yer own civilization, ya pack o' milquetoast swabbies!
Arrr...!
I'm so happy that (Score:5, Insightful)
Piracy is taking precedence over energy conservation, alternative energy, weapons proliferation, violent crime, inflation, commodity prices and a couple permanent wars. Hooray. Let's choose an IMPORTANT topic for this year's G8 meeting. After all, quadrillions of dollars are being lost and billions of people are put out of work every day/starve to death because little Johnny watched a Britney Spears video on Youtube!
To the world's politicians: WHAT THE FUCK??? SERIOUSLY!
Re:I'm so happy that (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I'm so happy that (Score:5, Insightful)
but how about the G8 ease other side of Copyright by allowing the old stuff into public domain within a reasonable timeframe.
How would that help facilitate the continued transfer of wealth from the middle and lower classes to the amazingly wealthy ruling class? See, you haven't thought through what you're asking for.
Parent
Re:I'm so happy that (Score:5, Informative)
The G8 is focused on economic activity, so discussion of the wars is pretty much right out.
Inflation is not a global problem, so why should countries not having inflation problems make it a primary matter on the agenda?
The agenda for the summit is defined by the host country (whose representative is the president for the year).
Also note that global climate change is being addressed by the G8+5, and was a major topic last year.
Finally, the G8 is not meeting for a week just to discuss IP and piracy. There are many other items on the agenda.
You should proceed to get your panties unbunched, and then bother to find out what the complete agenda is.
I agree that there are items of far bigger concern, but you should note that the G8 summit typically focuses on economic issues, not on things like war or violent crime -- though they are often linked to economics.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I'm so happy that (Score:5, Insightful)
To get money they need donations
Large Corporations donate money. Lots of it.
Once in office, the allegiance is to the Corporation, as they provide the money to attract more votes.
Parent
Re:I'm so happy that (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't have to vote for the most well-financed candidates.
My conclusion is that most voters either
a) don't really care that much
b) actually support the status quo
Of course the "first past the post" voting system does make things tend to "two party", but if people are that pissed off they could try to get more organized and then really vote for someone different.
Are they that upset? The fact that Bush actually got reelected should give you an indication about the reality despite all the loud complainers.
The reality is as long as there's Bread and Circuses most voters don't care, the Emperors and their Senate can do whatever they want.
Now with the increasing oil prices and recession there might be a bit of a problem with the Bread and Circuses supply.
Parent
Best of luck, fellas! (Score:5, Funny)
Don't tell 'em it's hiding in my basement. I downloaded it last week, and had a plummer come and remove the pipes afterward just to keep its location secret.
Typo in Title (Score:5, Insightful)
The title of this story should read: "G8 Summit Aims To Kill International Privacy".
Re:Typo in Title (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it should read "G8 Summit Aims To Kill independant music labels and film studios". I guess Star Wreck [wikipedia.org] really rattled Hollywood. Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning was incrediby well done and hilarious.
"My" representatives don't even represent my country, let alone me. They represent the foreigners who own the entertainment industries.
Parent
Arrh! (Score:3, Funny)
Avast! By the Neptune's testicles! Man the torrents, me mateys! From Fiddlers Green to Davey Jone's Locker, we'll do battle with these scurvy land lubbers! Climb the mizzen masts and get the black flag a flappin' in the Nor'Easter and WE BE IN DERE INTERTOOBS STEALIN' DERE COPYRITES!
Whoops. Lapsed from Pirate to LOLCAT there. Me heartys. KTHX! [wordpress.com]
The G8 is antiquated and increasingly irrelevant (Score:3, Insightful)
The G8 used to consist of the 8 largest economies in the world. Now it is mostly just a group of good-old-boys who wish they were still relevant on the world economic stage.
The fact that none of China, India, or Brazil are included in the G8 and yet Italy and France are illustrate this perfectly.
Re:The G8 is antiquated and increasingly irrelevan (Score:5, Informative)
You don't seem to particularly understand the importance of nations like Italy and France. As with Britain they're nations with extremely long histories that leave them to this day with a footing in many parts of the world. Their influence is incredibly strong internationally and it's this influence that keeps them strong economically, they're nations that simply wont sink in power because there's always nations willing to support them, trade with them and hold them up, often because of strong historical ties.
France particularly is strong in many other ways also, it's a member of the UN security council for one, has a lot of sway in the EU as does Italy- the EU is by far the worlds largest economy by GDP and many other measures.
These just aren't nations that are irrelevant, nor will they likely ever will be for decades or probably even centuries to come. I'm not saying this as a European with some arrogant feeling of self-importance (in fact, I'm British so I'm actually legally obliged to hate the French anyway ;)) but because these nations have so much power over international organisations and systems. They have the power to persuade the UN to push sanctions upon nations that dare consider trying to move away from the laws these nations produce for example and hence there's little that can topple them. Hell, a sizeable portion of the world depends on France and Italy for their defence, sure they could source equipment elsewhere but it'd take years and in the meantime they'd have zero support or ammo for their existing hardware.
It's probably worth also noting that France and Britain have been working to get China, India, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa in on the act for a little while now too, so as with most organisations irrelevance isn't relevant when change is possible as it is with the G8. China has been in on the G8 meets for a few years now anyway, there are only a few issues covered by the G8 from which it's excluded.
Parent
Re:The G8 is antiquated and increasingly irrelevan (Score:5, Informative)
The G8 used to consist of the 8 largest economies in the world. Now it is mostly just a group of good-old-boys who wish they were still relevant on the world economic stage.
Members of the G8: US, Japan, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Canada, Russia.
Respective ranks in world GDP [worldbank.org]: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 11. Total GDP: two thirds of the world.
Some has-beens.
Parent
Apples and oranges (Score:5, Interesting)
Not a matter of impractical... You have a stegosaurus trying to step on all those pesky little rats that recently appeared on the scene.
The stegosaurus can do whatever it wants, and the rats can't stop it. The rats, however, will last far longer than the dinosaurs.
Re:Apples and oranges (Score:5, Funny)
The stegosaurus can do whatever it wants, and the rats can't stop it. The rats, however, will last far longer than the dinosaurs.
Ah, I see! So what you are saying is that we should be free of annoying DRM in about 200 to 300 million years? Cool!
Parent
Thought it was going to be about high seas piracy (Score:5, Informative)
Something that causes the loss of actual lives and goods. But nope the lords of IP must be served.
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/2008-05-15-voa5.cfm [voanews.com]
"The United States is very concerned about the increasing number of acts of piracy and armed robbery at sea, especially off the Somali coast," according to the U.S. Department of State. Piracy and armed robbery have disrupted trade in east Africa and threatened the delivery of humanitarian assistance to the Somali people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy [wikipedia.org]
I wonder... (Score:3, Insightful)
the internet explained to bureacrats: (Score:5, Interesting)
the internet is useful because it provides two way communication. if you make the internet a one way system, you basically have nothing more than a fancy form of television. you also therefore strip the internet of all meaning and value that you can think up examples of yourself: email, chat, interactive content, forms, etc.
so as soon as you accept the fact that the internet remains a two way medium, you begin to understand that the gig is up. policing the traffic that flows from one node to the next is an arms race. every single thing that those who wish to police traffic can do, can be routed around, obfuscated through, etc.
in other words, the gig is up, the effort is futile. piracy is permanent. all you can hope to do with your efforts is breed more hardy pirating applications. hardly what you seek to do
so the thing for a proper world leader to do is accept the inevitable, and recreate the legal structre surrounding intellectual property to accomodate the new technological reality we find ourselves in. the new technological reality we find ourselves in has simply antiquated copyright and other aspects of intellectual property as we know it, circa 1985
or wage war against technological progress. your choice
Governments have worked so well against drugs (Score:5, Insightful)
*blinks* (Score:5, Funny)
My first glance at the page saw 'G8 Summons Ants to kill International Piracy'.
It would be about as effective as anything else they are going to do. I for one welcome our International Ant Overlords.
How many torrent peers do you have? (Score:4, Interesting)
I am glad that the war against the G8 is now in the front cyber-lawn and so many people are saying WTF? Seems that a lot of folks here don't think *they* have a chance. Let's see if attitudes change when the storm-troopers kick down doors of student dorms to search and destroy the wifi routers...
This has been on the go in secret for a while. At the G8 they just rubber stamp the done deal. The wikileaks article is quite scary (RTFA) but what is weird is that you have to go to Wikileaks and download dodgy TIFF files to find out about it. Where's the democracy in that?
Bring on the stormtroopers. I am going to see how many peers, seeds and leeches drop off over the next month. Just fear alone might shut down P2P viability. Let's see... Virgin media subscribers are going to tidy up their act, Google/Youtube is going to get cleared up and now this. All the news is in cyber-space today, shame the real economy has fallen off of a very large cliff...
How do we setup a P2P network that goes wi-fi to wi-fi with no need for ISP's, governments and snitches? It's time for web 3.0...
Re:Where there's a will.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
People will eventually decide that copyright infringement isn't worth the likelihood and cost of getting caught, or there will be a revolution.
There WILL be a revolution. I guarantee it. Darknets, Encryption everywhere, media erasable with the click of a button, boycotts, cheaper end-to-end privacy services... maybe the govts are idiots, but most IT companies realize there's a huge business opportunity for this. And people will use it. Sooner or later, encryption will beat intelligence agencies and then they'll be forced to either reverse their decisions or to become a totalitarian police state.
The US govt needs to be careful where it steps - they