Obama Campaign Seeks LAMP Developers

kgamiel writes "The Obama campaign's CTO is hiring LAMP-biased geeks for the Boston office to help elect the Senator in the fall. This got me to wondering, what if he instead announced a SourceForge project toward the same end? What would such a project look like? Tools that both sides could use 'equally' would not achieve the desired end. And philosophically, could the Open Source community support one side in a competition such as this? What other issues does this raise?" Another reader notes that the Obama campaign is also searching for a security expert to plug the holes that allowed a hacker to redirect Obama's site (Linux/Apache hosted by GoDaddy) to Hillary Clinton's (Windows/IIS hosted by Rackspace).

Pornstarrish, anyone?

[consonant (896763)]

I *really* think Hilary Clinton's should've been advised against being a female candidate, and hosting her site via 'Rack'space.. :-D

An Obama OSS project ??

[phoxix (161744)]

Jeebus, he wants to get things done, and not spend forever arguing about schematics, philosophy, languages, and what color the bikeshed is.

Re:

[something_wicked_thi (918168)]

No. He's just described what most politicians are best at, and what they should spend most of their time doing. It's better to have an ineffective government than an active, misguided one. I'd much prefer it if Bush suddenly got a lot more interested in bikeshed paint jobs, for example.

Re:An Obama OSS project ??

[h4rm0ny (722443)]

No. He's just described what most politicians are best at, and what they should spend most of their time doing. It's better to have an ineffective government than an active, misguided one.

Missing Option: Active, Representing Your Needs.

Re:An Obama OSS project ??

[CastrTroy (595695)]

$100 an hour for a LAMP developer? Developers are getting paid way too much these days. $100 an hour = 3500 a week for a 35 hour week. That's $182,000 a year. I don't know many developers who make that much money. I also don't know too many who only work 35 hours a week.

Re:An Obama OSS project ??

[tomhudson (43916)]

It's counted as a campaing contribution, and is chargeable at the same rates as a company would charge to do the same job on contract. The company would obviously charge more than they're paying the devs, to take care of slack time, non-billable hours, overhead (building, administration, compliance, etc), consumables (paper, laser toner, pcs, non-free software), employee benefits, and profit. $100/hr would be on the low side at that point.

Sourceforge project would...

[croftj (2359)]

Lead to a project which is probably incomplete, no documentation, and maybe a tarball that won't build.

This seems to suggest....

[3seas (184403)]

... his running mate will be Al Gore.

Re:why would you want a partner from a failed bid?

[TheoMurpse (729043)]

Did you forget that after he got his diploma he spent some years as a community organizer? That clearly jives with his speech.

What you quoted doesn't say "make no money, ever." It says "volunteer your time instead of focusing only on money."

I see no disconnect in anything but you and your failure to grasp simple logic.

Re:why would you want a partner from a failed bid?

[Score Whore (32328)]

Can you tell me what you think a community organizer is? You seem to think he was out there helping people out and generally being of service to the community. Which is wrong. Look at where he was and who he was working for: the Chicago political machine. His community organizing was all about getting people to show up and vote for the politician of the machine's choice. When he ran for office, his community organizing consisted of getting all his opponents removed from the ballot so that the community had exactly one person to vote for, him.

If you want to talk service, then go ahead and talk service but don't tell the world that pushing class, race and religious division in order to get votes is some kind of community service.

Re:why would you want a partner from a failed bid?

[amliebsch (724858)]

Wrong! [wikipedia.org]

Re:why would you want a partner from a failed bid?

[Score Whore (32328)]

I don't believe that once Obama graduated from law school, that he ever made less than $60,000 a year. And I'm curious as to which twenty years he spent as a "community organizer"? I'm curious because since 1993 he's worked variously as an associate lawyer or held a state or federal senate seat. None of which are going to be paying $30,000 a year. The twenty years before 1993 would have been 1973 - 1993. Given that he was born in 1961, I'm somewhat suspicious that he was community organizing when he was 12 years old.

Re:why would you want a partner from a failed bid?

[kestasjk (933987)]

Forget about that. We are the same, you and I. Hope.

This doesn't look like open source politics.

[the_hoser (938824)]

It looks like he wants to hire someone competent to run his web server. If I were running for a major political office, I'd certainly want someone competent runing my webserver.

If Obama does make a statement of support for open source software, then that'd give him kudos from me. Open source isn't the unstoppable freight train we'd like it to be, and could use all the friends in high places it can get.

Anything to piss in Microsoft's Cheereos makes me happy.

Re:This doesn't look like open source politics.

[TheoMurpse (729043)]

I don't know about a statement in support of XLOPQFLOSS, but I do know that he's a colleage and friend of Lawrence Lessig, and Obama sat down with Lessig before declaring his candidacy to discuss tech and internet policy.

Lessig endorses him wholeheartedly (you could cynically say it's because he wants a SCOTUS appointment), and from what I've read on Lessig's blog, Obama agrees with much of Lessig's tech/internet policy.

And as Lessig is my hero ("hero" is not the right word, but "role model" doesn't suffice), that's enough for me.

Re:This doesn't look like open source politics.

[tomhudson (43916)]

It looks like he wants to hire someone competent to run his web server. If I were running for a major political office, I'd certainly want someone competent runing my webserver.

Give it to Hans Reiser.

• 1. He has the free time ...
• 2. He can kill -9 anyone who fscks with it - what are they going to do, send him to jail?
• 3. Like any good politician, he knows where the bodies are buried and he's not telling ...

Re:This doesn't look like open source politics.

[Red Flayer (890720)]

If I were running for a major political office, I'd certainly want someone competent runing my webserver.

Ambiguous typo there -- do you want someone competent running your webserver or ruining your webserver?

Or did you actually mean runing? Perhaps you have "verbed" the noun "rune", in which case I expect that someone should explain to you that politics doesn't work like Diablo II, and you can't add runes to objects to make them more effective in real life.

Thanks in avdance for the clarification, it will help me understand your point much more clearly.

I think the revision tree

[grizdog (1224414)]

for any political campaign would be pretty hard to keep track of. Subversion, anybody?

McCain==Vista,Hillary==MacOSX,Obama==Linux

[NZheretic (23872)]

Which means Bush W.==Windows XP, Bill Clintion==Mac OS9, and Bush Snr==Win98/96.

Re:

[Darkn3ss (812009)]

Which means Bush W.==Windows XP, Bill Clintion==Mac OS9, and Bush Snr==Win98/96.

No no, W. 1st term was Windows XP. Second term was Vista. It got worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. Then a service pack came out, and it got worse. Then again, definitely a MS error here. Afganistan blows up our buildings. Clicks Go to War button. Clicks Afganistan. 100,000 troops are then deployed to Iraq.

Re:McCain==Vista,Hillary==MacOSX,Obama==Linux

[Sleepy (4551)]

Actually, the terrorist cell responsible for 9-11 came from Saudi Arabia. 7 years later we STILL can not question other Saudi suspects, including some with high placement in the Saudi government and the Saudi 'royal' family..

You still think it was an accident we invaded Iraq?? I don't.

Oh God

[MindlessAutomata (1282944)]

Is slashdot going to turn into Obama propaganda like digg and other sites too? The Obama campaign is looking for people with server and programming experience. Big deal.

Re:Oh God

[gorbachev (512743)]

Can't seem to remember OSS being used by any other presidential candidate in the past, ever.

So, in a community championing OSS, yes, I would say that's kinda of a big deal.

If you take this to its logical conclusion, there's a good chance, if elected as President of the United States, he (or rather his technology people) might be advocating for more OSS within the Government. THAT would be a Very Big Deal (tm).

Re:Oh God

[Dausha (546002)]

IIRC, in 2000 Gore's site was taken down because it used Microsoft. So, he switched to Apache. So, OSS has been used in previous campaigns. I'll bet Apache has been used enough to invalidate your assumption that OSS is only now in the ascent in politics.

Re:Oh God

[yelvington (8169)]

"Can't seem to remember OSS being used by any other presidential candidate in the past, ever."

Here are several, then.

Howard Dean's 2004 campaign used Drupal [drupal.org] to build a website aimed at helping grassroots supporters self-organize. The resulting package was released as a fork called Civicspace, which eventually was reconciled back into the Drupal core and the CiviCRM [civicrm.org] constitutent relationship management toolkit.

Wesley Clark's 2004 campaign open-sourced an array of projects [clark04.com].

John Edwards has endorsed the concept of open-source software for voting machines and has blogged about open source. [lessig.org] Note that Redhat is based in his state.

This year, Christopher Dodd's website was built on Drupal 5, Bill Richardson's with Zope, and all of the Democratic candidates except Hillary Clinton ran Linux or BSD. (Clinton and most of the Republicans ran Windows servers.)

And I'm sure there are other examples.

No, not SourceForge

[hacker (14635)]

Please don't encourage the use of SourceForge for things like this. Not only is SourceForge a dead-end for time-limited projects, it is also full of dead, empty or completely abandoned projects.

A good 60% or more of the projects there have seen no activity at all (because people think creating a project there will automatically write itself), and many projects haven't been touched in 4, 5, 6 or more years.

They've consistently crippled the use of standard OSS tools like CVS, Subversion and Mailman just so they can try to retain control of projects by limiting the ability to use them effectively. They don't support other tools like git and proper MTA support for mailing commits to developers.

Also, quite a few projects have pulled the source to previous releases (a violation of the GPL that these projects were released under; gaim is one of them). Their management of projects and overall administration leaves MUCH to be desired.

Lastly, SourceForge was originally going to be called "Cold Storage", and it was supposed to partner with Freshmeat to permanently archive projects. I've seen many projects vanish from SourceForge, which completely negates the whole policy of its existance.

So while I respect and encourage the use of OSS tools, LAMP, retaining the mindshare of key developers who can help support a candidate they support, I don't think choosing SourceForge to host the project is a wise move.

Do you choose the type of hammer and nails you're going to use, before you draft the plans to build your new house? Do you choose the kind of vehicle you're going to drive before you know your destination and travel route? Of course you don't.

Why choose the hosting service before you've even chosen what kinds of components and requirements the project will need?

Re:

[hankwang (413283)]

You skipped Section 3b of the GPLv2 verbage.

Section 3b is about physical media (e.g., cd, dvd). Do you expect to be able to order a cd with the source code for every GPL program you download from the internet?

From the GPL FAQ:

How can I make sure each user who downloads the binaries also gets the source?

You don't have to make sure of this. As long as you make the source and binaries available so that the users can see what's available and take what they want, you have done what is required of you

Nothing here, move on..

[1 a bee (817783)]

I'm an Obama fan. Reading his book, and look to maybe contributing some time to his campaign. And I love to discuss politics. But this story is stupid. It's not even an ask /. entry.

No, it would be silly to put up a sourceforge project for a candidate. Better concentrate on how best to use existing tools.

--
Have USB will travel - http://www.faunos.com/ [faunos.com]

It is a feature, not a defect

[assertation (1255714)]

Another reader notes that the Obama campaign is also searching for a security expert to plug the holes that allowed a hacker to redirect Obama's site (Linux/Apache hosted by GoDaddy) to Hillary Clinton's (Windows/IIS hosted by Rackspace).



If I was an Obama campaign manager I would actually be thankful that happened. People like me, who started off being fans of the Clintons, have gotten turned off to them because of the negative tactics they and their strong supporters have used.

I had a refrigerator magnet that read "Come Back Bill, All Is Forgiven". I just moved and decided not to put it back up. In one day Geraldine Ferraro's reputation was ruined for me.

Our generation is coming up

[unity100 (970058)]

yea, our generation. this guy is practically 10 years older than me. and many years younger than many of you here.

despite im 33 years old and many of you are over 40, and many of you below 25 even, we belong to a single generation - information age generation. this super generation is people who got influenced with the advent of information technology, from 60s and on. at those decades, the impact was limited to whomever worked in the i.t. field. but with the spread of the ibm personal computer compatibles, it reached a broader segment of the society (and internationally too) and with the internet it reached the masses. however, up to this point, the world has been ruled by representatives who had little to do with those changes. either because they are too old, and information revolution did not affect them (because they werent in field of i.t. in 60s and on) or because they were much older, derelict of cold war era.

clinton is an example of the former - despite she was young at the onset of 60s and 70s, the real start of this information revolution, she had nothing to do with i.t., wasnt working in an i.t. field, and henceforth remained out of these changes.

im not even talking about mccain.

obama is different. he is young enough to have lived his youth at the time when information revolution was reaching masses, and he had enough exposure to i.t. (and very probably to open source ideals) during his time working in community service.

he is an example of how the future will be. as the older generation of (i say dinosaurs) phase out, this new generation - practically 'our' generation, because internet causing people to do everything together regardless of nation and location - is going to take over the world step by step. rightly so, because that is the nature of life.

and things will change. see this difference in approach in between those 2 candidates (one seeking lamp developer, not even asking a college degree, and hosting their stuff on lamp servers, the other is going all old big buck style, hosting their stuff on microsoft iis) signifies the difference in understanding in between them.

change will come faster in europe, because europe did not experience mccarthyism of america, that killed the potential change a few generations would be able to bring in 50s and 60s. therefore the transition there is smoother, because there didnt happen a lost generation that was not able to take positions of government, power due to scaremongering.

in u.s. it will be a bit harder. because mccarthyism scaremongering in between 50-60s caused that period to be one of stale progress up until the end of 60s. big corporations are going to fight back in u.s., whereas in europe they are already kept in check with Eu institutions.

im turkish, i live in turkey, irrelevant to many stuff that is happening in u.s., and im an obama supporter. that is because he is one of the spearheads of our broad information-age/new generation to bring change, regardless of where that change happens, we all should support each other.

Re:Our generation is coming up

[unity100 (970058)]

The Democrats will remove your freedoms by forcing on you what they think is good for you, by taking away your means to protect you and your families, by forcing your diets and lifestyles. They will continue to push social spending (which is about 2/3 of our national budget).

what you term as 'removing your freedoms' have caused such a level of liberty and welfare in northern european countries is that, the biggest issue of danish youth is 'unfair decisions that soccer game referees hand out in national soccer league'. they have even caused a riot over it, last year.

please drop the mccarthyism shit that has plagued your nation for the last 50 years.

balance needs to be pursued in EVERYTHING in life. if you let big corporations go unchecked like you did in u.s. for the last 50 years, they go haywire like they are doing there. trying to scuttle internet like at&t and bell do, kill small businesses, sell tools and weapons to oppressive regimes, buy out senators, every kind of shit.

if balance is way distorted towards the government in cuban socialism, its way distorted towards megacorporation enslavement in america. you are on the other end of balance spectrum.

I love LAMP

[rAiNsT0rm (877553)]

/that is all

Oh boy

[soccerisgod (585710)]

Obama -> GoDaddy

Clinton - Rackspace

Am I the only one who's laughing his ass off at this?

It's murder, not killing, that is condemned

[MikeRT (947531)]

Murder is wrong. Get your theology right. The Bible only condemns homicide, not killing in self-defense, in defense of another or in times of war. In fact Jesus said that calamities like war and social problems like poverty would continue to happen as they always have until the time that God returns to take back control of the Earth directly from Satan (and humanity).

Read this [biblegateway.com] if you don't believe me.

Re:It's murder, not killing, that is condemned

[the_B0fh (208483)]

So, if you want to kill someone the right way, all you have to do is declare war on them? How small does the scale have to be? Can you have a war on one person? Who determines if this is a war? Does things like gang wars count? What about war on poverty, does that count? Would killing convicted monopolists fall under the protection of the war on poverty?

Thanx for any clarification.

Re:

[maxume (22995)]

No historical evidence? But what about the Bible?

I kid, I kid...

Re:It's murder, not killing, that is condemned

[jbengt (874751)]

It is nothing more than a fictional novel . . .

The Bible is definitely not a novel, not even a single book (as you indirectly allude to).
It's not really a work of fiction, either (true or not). It is partly historically, partly mythological, and somewhat akin to a docudrama with a purpose, trying to answer the question "Why?".
One should expect contradiction within it, since it is a collection of a number of books written by different authors at different times for different purposes. That does not make it irrelevant or unhelpful.

Re:It's murder, not killing, that is condemned

[tomhudson (43916)]

Jesus said to turn the other cheek. He said to forgive those that trespass against you.

That was 2,000 years ago. What's he done for me lately?

Re:

[Elemenope (905108)]

Uh, no, no. Some modern interpretations of Christianity hold only murder to be wrong, while many historical strains (and certainly the text!) argue for the stricter interpretation. Christian "just war" theory is a hotly disputed topic amongst even modern Christians, and for good reason: there is barely if any scriptural support for it, and many see it as simply a pragmatic concession to the fact that living as a Christian in a cruel, cruel world is rather difficult. I would point you, for example, to Marti

Re:But they're anarchists! They can't have meeting

[HadouKen24 (989446)]

Actually not.

If you're referring to the injunction "Thou shalt not kill" in the Ten Commandments, you'll find that the word used--transliterated as ratsach--does not necessarily refer to murder. While that is one of its primary meanings, it also includes unintentional killings as well. Indeed, this is the most common use of the word in Deuteronomy. It enjoins the Israelites to found three cities as refuges for those who kill unintentionally, so that they can flee there and be safe from vengeful relatives.

I'm not sure where the claim that it just means "murder" comes from. A good translation and a concordance will quickly show it to be simply and obviously false. In any case, it is shamelessly used by (mostly) Protestant preachers to justify all kinds of killing as not being "murder." Which isn't exactly in the spirit of Christian charity, to my mind.

Not that it matters to me all that much. I haven't been a believer for years.

Re:But they're anarchists! They can't have meeting

[thegameiam (671961)]

The "unintentional" killing you're referring to is closer to the American concept of "negligent homicide" - it was crimes for which the punishment was exile to once of the cities of refuge.

lo tirtzah in the Ten Commandments is a little bit broader than "don't murder," but it's a long distance away from "don't kill." Attempts to interpret it to mean "don't kill" are well-intentioned, but are not faithful to the actual meaning or historical interpretation of the text. If "don't kill" had been intended, lo ya'areg would have been used instead.

This is the standard Rabbinic interpretation of the phrase in the Ten Commandments - all of them refer to crimes for which one can receive the death penalty, so "don't steal" is limited to "don't kidnap [i.e. "don't steal people"]" - one cannot receive the death penalty for homicide which is not murder in Jewish law, so the that's another data point supporting the interpretation of the word as "murder."

Re:But they're anarchists! They can't have meeting

[plantman-the-womb-st (776722)]

To nature, all life carries the same value.

To nature, all live carries NO value.

A value of zero is still a value. Both of you are correct.

Re:Tech

[Vectronic (1221470)]

Yes, that they both have websites, thats all.

Re:

[nurb432 (527695)]

Yes, it tells you something: It tells you they understand marketing in 2008.

If you think the candidates have a clue ( or care ) what their websites are running on, or could even understand it all you are sadly mistaken. I doubt they even know who is doing their web stuff, its all handled by their respective 'committees'.

   

Re:Tech

[GlobalEcho (26240)]

Yes and no.

Obama is intelligent as well as charismatic (yes, I'm from Chicago and I have met him). When asked -- jokingly -- a question about sorting at some university function, he replied, "well, I wouldn't use the bubblesort" which is pretty damn good for a lawyer, especially a constitutional lawyer.

I also find it telling that his technical advisor is an MIT professor. (Contrast with McCain, who I have not met but IMO is basically a stand-up guy embedded in a free-spending, anti-freedom party. McCain has an ex entertainment industry exec as HIS technical advisor).

Re:Tech

[dpilot (134227)]

The most important skill for a politician at this level is the ability to pick the right people. People who are more competent at their specializations that he is. People he can trust to deliver worthwhile information and opinions to him, including "No!" as needed. It could be said that this has been both Carter's and GWB's failing, the former for not building and trusting a sufficiently competent team, the latter for building a team of "True Believers" without enough dissent.

While the subject of the article is in no way sufficient to say that Obama is a good candidate or would be a good President, it is a necessary part of that. He is seeking competent assistance, and I didn't see "true belief" in the list of qualifications, as it was in building the Emerald City.

Re:

[Foofoobar (318279)]

It's mostly been embittered Hillary fans and angry feminists but you're right. But not to worry... the US is slowly losing as a superpower and having to take a backseat thanks to the administration of the last 8 yrs. The EU is now kicking our ass and people have now learned not to invest in the US dollar, US real estate and other risky US investments. We will soon be coming to real countries for help. :)

Re:What's wrong with you people?!

[InfoVore (98438)]

Is everyone in the US so effing polarized that you can even get your website hacked by someone supporting a person you're running against, /even if they are in same party/?!

We are in the early death-throws of the so-called "Culture War" here. Since the Culture War is just another name for the Boomer generation's moralistic squabbling for power amongst themselves, then yes it can get ugly. As political transitions go, historically this one isn't that bad. Read a little history; not U.S. history, just plain old history. Lots of examples of treacherous, conniving, deceitful and brutal ideological power changes from just about every major western democracy. One of the most entitled, arrogant, and narcissistic generations in American history is starting to be pushed from power. I'm surprised the transition has so far been limited to mostly bombastic rhetoric and easily fixed shenanigans like redirected web-pages.

This isn't democracy, it's a slum.

And what pristine example of harmonious democracy do you hail from? Take care with that stone, you may live in a glass house.

What gives here, honestly? It's /just/ a presidential nomination, not an attack on freedom or something.

Obviously you aren't paying attention. First, this is a fight for arguably the most powerful political position in the world. Don't bother protesting, we're still the Big Burrito on the block, even if our power and influence are waning.

Second should Obama win both the Democratic nomination and the presidency, Hillary Clinton will never have a shot at the presidency. Her and her supporters feel she is entitled to that position. In their minds, she was supposed to be the first woman President of the U.S. In addition to the Clintons' feelings of entitlement and the gender politics involved, lets throw in racial politics (possible first black president), a failed presidency (Bush, Jr), a faltering economy, the expensive quagmire in Iraq, and fear of losing control by a generation entitled Baby Boomers. In point of fact, the whole thing is about the future of freedom - specifically who will set the tone and policies of the next generation of U.S. politics.

If you spent half the effort on real problems that you spend electing a leader for your arrogant little country, the world be be such a better place.

Go ahead throw your stones. We can take it. We have enough real problems to deal with (like fixing our economy, ending a stupid war & bringing our troops home, repairing our standing in the world, replacing our aging infrastructure, competing with the rising new economic superpowers, and healing the internal wounds from the corrosive Culture War in-fighting of the aging Boomers). We really appreciate your constructive suggestions on how to run our political selection process.

Christ, _just get along_.

We're trying. You're not helping.

-IV

Re:What's wrong with you people?!

[InfoVore (98438)]

Obama isn't a Baby Boomer. He's in the post-boomer generation variously called Generation-X, Generation-13, Post-Boomers, etc. Basically those born between 1961 and 1981 (read GENERATIONS by Howe & Strauss [amazon.com] for a profile of American generations for the last three centuries).

Also, Obama is a reformist leader who has based his campaign on changing how American government works. He is literally the voice crying "STOP" for the two frustrated generations (Gen-X & Millenials) who follow the Boomers.

Clinton is a machine Democrat with 35 years invested in keeping Washington working the way it does now (aka lobbyist rule). So your "same side" argument lacks any basic understanding of current American presidential politics. As such, I have to devalue your criticisms of our system.

So you prefer your nastiness to go on behind closed doors? I guess tastes differ. I prefer openness even if it is messier. Sunlight and fresh air will kill lots of nasty things that live in the dark places.

What the hell are you talking about with my supposed "sit back until they die" approach? I said that we are in the initial stages of shoving the fractious Boomers out of power. We certainly aren't waiting for them to die. Heck, it may require copious amounts of holy water and wooden stakes through their hearts just to get them to back down.

As to the Boomer children being taught to act like their parents, the Millennials are a largely a civic and cooperative generation unlike the Boomers, who are individualistic and rhetorically idealistic. The Millenials do not show the narcissistic sense of "we're right, everyone else is wrong" ego that the Boomers enjoy. As a group the Millennials seem to be naturally cooperative and conscientious, if somewhat immature and naive. Like most civic generations, they were sheltered and cherished so it will take them a while to mature. But when they do, America will change as it has not since the last great civic generation: the G.I. (aka "The Greatest Generation").

In the interim it is the Gen-X folks that will be taking the reigns for a while. This is the truly galling part for the Boomers. They HATE the Gen-X generation (its a long story. read GENERATIONS). So the Boomers will renew their grip and force everyone to drive them out of power inch by bloody inch. Their entire generational ego is predicated on the notion that they know better than anyone else. They won't go easily. This fight is going to take years. The 2008 election is just the first battle in a long war.

Your logic on tying the War on Drugs to the campaign rhetoric is flawed. Certainly that is one of the many stupidities we have to address, it is NOT however one of the problems with the functioning of the primary campaign (your original point). It may be an issue not addressed by the campaigns, but it isn't an issue WITH the campaigns' operations. Nice try at a redirect, but a failed one.

Finally your statement that no one over here seems to be doing anything either is specious and insulting. Of course we are doing something about it. Why do you think so many people are actively working to elect their favored candidate? Its a fight. It is ugly and it will get uglier still. We who are actively engaged in that fight know this. We aren't disheartened that it is ugly. We know things will get better. That is what we are fighting for; not just to fix some of our problems but to fix the system so that it doesn't create these catastrophes in the first place. So bear with us while we try to sort this out.

Of course you wouldn't know what it is like to have to dig in and try to fix the basics of a broken govenment, since you rely on it all being nicely sorted out in a comfortable back room some where.

Re:What's wrong with you people?!

[InfoVore (98438)]

No my analysis isn't wrong, it just didn't include that aspect of the larger election. Of course the general election will be the final repudiation of the Reagan revolution and the neocon insanities. Not one of the candidates is a champion for that camp, including the Republican candidate (which is why their base hates McCain so much. he's not "one of them".)

There is more going on in this election than a excoriation of GWB, the Reagan revolution and the Neocon philosophy. Specifically the fight between Clinton and Obama is a generational struggle for control. Yes there is more than that going on in the entire race, but it is a large component driving the contention between those two candidates supporters.

How do I really feel? Yeah, I resent the Boomers as a group. I'm one of the Gen-X generation that has been uniformly crapped on by the Boomers since we committed the ultimate sin of not worshiping them.

My rhetoric applies to both the Boomer fueled neocons (look at the neocon philosophical heavyweights - all Boomers) and the machine Democrats (they aren't cohesive enough to have their own group name), like the Clintons.