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Do Not Call Registry Set to Become Permanent

Posted by Zonk on Thu Feb 07, 2008 04:41 PM
from the finally-our-government-at-work dept.
Government Privacy United States Politics
coondoggie passed us a NetworkWorld article about an initiative by the Senate to transform the Do Not Call list into a permanent institution. Originally individuals on the list were to have their place on the list revoked; up to a third of the people who signed up might have fallen off the list by the Autumn without renewing legislation. A move by the Senate this past Wednesday will permanently prevent salesmen from calling those who have registered for the list. "Aside from what telemarketing junk the bill does prevent, experts note what may also be a big deal is a provision that is NOT in this bill and that is protection for those other annoying time wasters: political robo calls."
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Submission: Do Not Call registry set to become permanent by coondoggie (973519)
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  • Finally.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Iphtashu Fitz (263795) on Thursday February 07 2008, @04:43PM (#22340724)
    My congresscritters are finally doing something I approve of!

    • Re:Finally.... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by gnick (1211984) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:00PM (#22341014) Homepage
      Yes - But good luck persuading your "congresscritters" to add "political robo calls" to the list.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mrxak (727974)
        I assume other non-profit organizations will also be let through too.

          • Re:Finally.... (Score:5, Informative)

            by reddburn (1109121) <redburn1.gmail@com> on Thursday February 07 2008, @06:17PM (#22342122)

            I worked at one of these places for a week (I had to leave before I killed myself), and actually, they get your name from public records and donor lists. If you've donated to a political campaign online, signed a petition, joined an e-mail list, even visited a political website with the right cookies (the first sophisticated tracking cookies were - according to R.N. Howard in New Media Campaigns - used by the RNC website in the 90s) in the past 9 years, your contact info is automatically added to that party's, candidate's, organization's (the RCCC, DCCC, moveon.org) list of people to harass on the phone.

            If you tell them no, if you tell them anything *other* than to specifically "Remove me from your list," ("don't call again" doesn't work) they can legally call back in 90 days (6 mos. if you donate, and then they ask for 2x what you gave before as the start). Worse: you have to be the individual they're calling. If it's a spouse, the autodialer will call back the next day. The organization you donate to is paying these companies by the call, and the company also gets a percentage (right off the top) of your donation. Someone donates $50, the organization ends up with about $35 after all is said and done.

      • Re:Finally.... (Score:5, Informative)

        by dgatwood (11270) on Thursday February 07 2008, @06:02PM (#22341948) Journal

        Yes - But good luck persuading your "congresscritters" to add "political robo calls" to the list.

        You misread the summary. The previous version of the legislation authorizing the DNC registry provided an exemption for non-profits, political calls, and surveys. The new one does not, so in effect, by not providing that exemption in this version, they did add those calls to the list of banned solicitation.

        My feet are suddenly very cold. I think hell just became endothermic and is well on its way to a state transition.

        • I am going to guess that someone got a hold of every senator and congressman's phone number and created a survey to call them during dinner and to simply ask "Do calls during dinner annoy you?"...

          Family Feud host:"and the survey says [ding ding ding] 100% said yes!"

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by tm2b (42473)
          Don't hold your breath. The First Amendment issues are much stickier around non-commercial speech, especially political speech.

          No, I don't happen to believe that they apply to people using my own equipment and my own paid service to harass me either, but those arguments can and will be made.
        • I still wont be happy until Opt-Out becomes the default, just like it should be with any other form of SPAM. Communications like this should all be Opt-In only, and only then if specifically subscribed per list type. All these contracts that say "we do business with you now, so our subsidiaries and 'partners' all get to SPAM you now, unless you go over there and print this form and sign and snail-mail it" are the default now, and they all stink.

  • How about a do not mail list? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by XxtraLarGe (551297) on Thursday February 07 2008, @04:44PM (#22340740) Journal
    I can just hang up on a phone call. I find junk mail to be far more annoying & damaging to the environment.

    • Re:How about a do not mail list? (Score:5, Funny)

      by milsoRgen (1016505) on Thursday February 07 2008, @04:49PM (#22340828) Homepage

      I can just hang up on a phone call.

      Or not answer it all... I realized long ago just because some contraption starts making noise, nothing is forcing me to address it. Same with the front door and annoying friends, just because they can make some noise by hitting their meat clubs against some wood, doesn't mean I'm forced to get out of my E-Z chair...

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Safety Cap (253500)

        Or not answer it all...

        Exactly. We have trained all of our family, friends, etc., to start talking when the answering machine engages.

        We do not answer the phone at all before this unless we're expecting a call at a specific time. We may pick up the phone if we want to talk at that time; otherwise we'll call 'em back.

        When we lived in a newly-built house, we were always getting the little entrepreneurs (selling gas logs, house numbers painted on the curb, front yard gas lamps, etc.) banging on the doo

      • A better solution... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mangu (126918) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:12PM (#22341202)

        Or not answer it all...

        I answer the phone and tell them "yes, just hold on a second". Then I leave the phone on the table, wondering how long will it take them to hang up this time.
        • Thats a good idea, sometimes when I'm feeling froggy I'll answer 'em and say the most disturbing things that can come to mind... Some hang up, but every once in a while someone will just try and play it off and continue the discourse... F'ing hilarious.
        • Actually, I've noticed most have some sort of voice-activated thing that kicks in the second time you say "hello" (or, possibly make some other noise).

          Therefore, when I answer the phone, I say "hello" once, and only once, and wait. If I don't hear a response in a few seconds, I simply hang up because most normal people calling will eventually say "hello?" again if they don't hear anything back. If it's a friend/family member with a bad connection, they'll eventually get that point across.

      • Re:How about a do not mail list? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Sabz5150 (1230938) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:23PM (#22341346)

        I realized long ago just because some contraption starts making noise, nothing is forcing me to address it.
        Get married. Watch that change.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Bryansix (761547)
      I agree. You have to actually pay to get off of some mailing lists now. The law should allow a single repository where you can request to not get any junk mail except from companies you already are doing business with and even then only when you opt-in. And no, affiliates of businesses you do business with DON'T count.
    • I find unsolicited phone calls *FAR* more annoying that any other type of junk communication. It forces me to take action- to look, or to shut the phone up from reminding me of a missed call or junk voicemail. Junk Email doesn't do that. Junk Snailmail doesn't do that.

      I think all such calls should be illegal as an invasion of privacy. Robot or human. And enforcement should be swift and severe.... set up a system where you can dial a special number and it automatically reports the last call you got as

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by vux984 (928602)
        It forces me to take action- to look, or to shut the phone up from reminding me of a missed call or junk voicemail.

        No. That's your crappy ass phone.

        It *should* feature call management features to allow you to do stuff like:

        I only want the missed call notifier to beep if:
        a) its my wife or immediate family
        b) the emergency number from the alarm company
        c) its someone in my address book between 9 and 5
        d) unless its -that guy- in which case don't ever beep. Hell don't even ring.
        oth
        • The stupid part is what on earth makes these idiots think that by annoying me I'll want to go vote for them?

          I mean it's pointless to even try to talk to anyone that's made up their minds already. So what you have left is people who are borderline between two candidates. One of the two annoyingly robo-calls the voter. Voter gets annoyed, votes for the other candidate...

          I'd be willing to bet many more are turned away than persuaded to vote for the candidate that annoyed them.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by rewinn (647614)

            Some have claimed [usatoday.com] that at least some robo calls are specifically designed to discourage you from voting, either by annoying you or by giving misleading conversation.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by BigJClark (1226554)

      I went one further.

      I received a call from a politician running for mayor or some jazz, an automated type. I patiently listened to this spiel, did a google lookup for his business number, called him and left HIM a message stating:

      "Dear Sir, I have called to inform you that I am not voting for you, not because of your stand on certain positions, but because you have resorted to an automatic phone dialer. I will also recommend my friends, acquaintances, and co-workers do the same. Good day."

      Specia
    • Put up a sign on your door - "no flyers or pennysavers".

  • Does it matter? (Score:3, Informative)

    by overshoot (39700) on Thursday February 07 2008, @04:45PM (#22340760)
    The telemarketers have had the time now to engineer systems around the loopholes built into the law, so that we're pretty much back where we were before.

    Don't think so? How many prosecutions have there been under the law in the last year?

  • Ehh (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Eric(b0mb)Dennis (629047) on Thursday February 07 2008, @04:46PM (#22340778)
    How about no robo-calls PERIOD?

    Do you know they leave messags on your answering machine now?

    I was sitting here, minding my own business.. phone rings, 1-800 number..no way i'm picking that up.

    So my machine gets it, to my horrow i suddenly hear a text-book RADIO AD blaring through my answeing machine!

    HI THIS IS GOTTSCHALKS BLQAGH BLAH BLAH in my own #($&*%& house, an ad! NO TV, NO RADIO!

    I immediately threw my empty beer bottle at the blast machine, I'm getting answering service through the phone company now!
    • If you're on the Do-Not-Call list, and this was a commercial, then it's illegal, and Gottschalks whatever can be prosecuted.

      On the other hand, if that's some guy running for mayor, that's arguably protected under the First Amendment. That's probably why political calls got left out of the bill.
      • Yeah, but what can you really do about it. They probably forged the Caller-ID anyway. There's no way of knowing who actually called. Good luck calling your phone company and getting them to trace it. They have better things to do with their time.
        • Yeah exactly.

          I mean, the amount of time it would take me to do anything about it (and I am on the Do Not call list) is worth more to me than the simple satisfaction of sticking it to one company.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by longacre (1090157) *
      How about no robo-calls PERIOD?

      Why do you hate freedom?
      • Why do you hate freedom?

        I hate being called by the Salvation Army at 12:30 PM on a vacation day to listen to back-to-back identical messages (I suppose one is in case your answering machine picked up) about a new drop-off center in Burnsville, MN. I gave money every year but that stops as of Tuesday afternoon because they are using it to flood me with phone spam. Fuck em.

        Then, I hang up from that, mildly annoyed and the phone rings again. Figuring I can't be getting back-to-back douchebag calls, I pick i
  • I'm suprised they had the opportunity to FIT this in between steroids in baseball and cheating in the NFL. Wow. I'm still going to try to vote every one of them out, but when I do it, I imagine I might do it with a little less malice.
  • Is that telemarketers outside its jurisdiction have no obligation to honour it, but they can access it and use it to seed their auto dialers.

    Why not simply require telcos to ask their customers whether or not they want to be on an opt in list when setting up a new account?
  • For the past half year, I've been getting calls "For any credit card holder with outstanding balances, press 9 for more information." So once I pressed 9 to tell the person they were breaking the law by calling me. The lady on the other end denied that their activities were illegal because I agreed to the call by pressing 9. Seems like circular logic to me, but they keep calling.

    • Re:Isn't stopping all calls (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DanQuixote (945427) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:31PM (#22341498)

      Here is an effective (though laborious) way to deal with that.

      1. Register on National Do-Not-Call list.
      2. Wait 3 month beginning period.
      3. Get caller ID.
      4. Wait for another call.
      5. Be pleasant to the person, if you can order something cheap, say $10, do it.
      6. Get their address and phone number as you place the order.
      7. Photograph the Caller ID display as evidence.
      8. Take good notes including date, time, person talked to, company name, as more evidence.
      9. Copy the bill you receive for $10 as conclusive evidence of marketing intent.
      10. Go to your county courthouse, lodge a small claim for $500 for a telemarketing violation.
      11. Send them proper notice they are being sued.
      12. Since they are often out of state, they won't show and you get default judgment.
      13. If they do show, you have proof of listing, notice, call, and call purpose.
      14. For bonus dollars, ($500 per item) look into whether they have, train to, practice and publish upon demand the required company calling policies.
      15. Profit!!!

      I've tried it, it works.

  • Caller ID is your friend (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Iphtashu Fitz (263795) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:02PM (#22341052)
    Caller ID along with an answering machine is a great combination. My home phone/answering machin also lets me set up custom ring tones for numbers in its address list. If a family member of friend calls I hear one type of ring so I always answer it. If the Caller ID says something like "blocked" or "unknown" or shows a phone number like 000-000-0000 then I just let my answering machine pick it up. It sure saves me a lot of hassle.
  • Now what we need is Do Not Mail Registry (anybody knows a good reason why this doesn't exist already?) and Do Not Email Registry (a bit harder to enforce :)

  • What happens when numbers are reassigned? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MSTCrow5429 (642744) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:13PM (#22341220)
    What happens to the status of the number when someone discontinues usage of the telephone number, say by moving or canceling your service and moving to VoIP? IF the number is then at some point reassigned to another person, does that number remain on the Do-Not-Call list? If it does, is that legitimate, as an individual can only vouch for their own phone numbers, and not that of a third-party?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by WK2 (1072560)
      When the number is de-activated or moved by the phone company, your name and number and come off the list. I guess the phone company notifies the FTC, or something like that.

      See http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt107.shtm [ftc.gov] for more info. Note that the fucktards at the FTC refer to people as "consumers," despite the fact that a person is probably registering on the Do Not Call list because they aren't consumers.
  • Ok, so once this becomes permanant, hopefully they just use a dumb form to add a number to the list.. in which case... I'll give a bag of cookies to whoever writes the first perlscript to add every single number in existance to the database. I mean, thats only what, 000-0000 to 999-9999?
    • It's not quite a dumb form. You have to give them your email address, and I think there is a limit to the number of numbers that can be connected to one email address. However, you could probably manage to script the process. Keep in mind that there are 10 ^ 10 (10 billion) possible 10-digit phone number combinations in the U.S, and probably about a billion or so are active.

  • Telemarketers for Non-Profits (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CheshireCatCO (185193) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:19PM (#22341308) Homepage
    Now we need to do something about the telemarketing firms calling "on behalf" of non-profit organizations. This is still legal under the law (it seemed like a good idea: who doesn't love non-profits?), but it's being abused. The telemarketing companies keep an extraordinary fraction of the donations (over 50%, from what a local newspaper investigation found) so little of your money goes to the organization you're trying to help.

    One obvious solution is to only allow the non-profit exemption if more than, say, 90% of the donation goes right to the actual non-profit. That'll probably shut up the telemarketers because profit would no longer cover costs.

  • Political Calls are No Big Deal, Junk Mail Worse (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Maltheus (248271) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:22PM (#22341328)
    The occasional person polling me for my opinions doesn't bother me at all. It's simple enough to hang up if I don't want to bother. But in the days before the Do Not Call List, I'd hardly ever bothered answering my phone if it got bad.

    Junk mail is far worse, IMO. You still have to sort through it to make sure you're not throwing anything important out. It usually just ends up turning my house into a mess because I don't have the time to deal with it all. At the very least, they could put those newspaper adverts in a bag or something. It's too easy to get that crap mixed in with real mail. I don't want anything that doesn't have my name on it (resident mailings), nor do I want credit card offers that can fuck me up if I don't dispose of them properly. I wish I could direct a private company to deliver my mail that won't having a problem stripping this stuff out for me.

    • I wish I could direct a private company to deliver my mail that won't having a problem stripping this stuff out for me.

      I'll do it for you. My fee is $30 an hour and I need to be paid W-2 for a minimum of 40 hours a week and oh ya, I need Health Insurance. This is a legitimate offer.

  • The new telemarketers (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ender77 (551980) on Thursday February 07 2008, @05:34PM (#22341532)
    The new telemarketers get around the do not call list by claiming they are taking surveys for products. I have been getting more and more calls for surveys lately for this or that product. I ask to be taken off the call list but they just say they are not telemarketers and ignore the request.
    • Its actually Autumn and its what that insignificant (since they are not American) huge majority of English speakers in the world call Fall.

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