Presidential Candidates and Online Privacy

noiseordinance writes "I'd like to know everyone's opinion about which presidential candidate seems most likely to preserve Internet privacy." We haven't officially started election coverage on Slashdot yet, but I figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to start tossing out questions like this as we get closer to the primaries. Try to stay on the subject of on-line privacy- we can run more stories on other topics in the future.

Ron Paul

[mulhollandj (807571)]

He is the only one who believes in this &#&@* piece of paper called the Constitution. It takes a great man to realize and accept that there are limits on his power and let others govern themselves.

Re:Ron Paul

[Seumas (6865)]

I agree. Ron Paul is the only candidate who would possibly give any real thought to protecting the internet along with any other form of free speech. Everyone else is for free speech, freedom of assembly, privacy, etc -- as long as it's in support of things they want to say or to. But they're against the privacy, speech and assembly of anyone that disagrees with them. Or more importantly, that they disagree with.

Of course, as a politician, Ron Paul (if he even actually had a chance), would become just another bullshit politician, so it's all a moot point. You don't become a viable candidate unless you have the support of the establishment (aristocrats, other politicians, corporations, religious organizations and unions). So no matter who you are or what side you supposedly are on or what you purport to be your values, the only viable and successful candidates are the ones who will do the bidding of the aforementioned groups. One may perform the duties of one organization or another slightly more than another candidate, but the degree of variation is minor (which of course is why there is nearly no difference between the two parties -- or even most official independent candidates).

But of course, people have this misguided believe that all they have to do to change the world is place a vote. Why, if you place a vote, it will ALL change. Bullshit candidates will somehow become viable, despite shirking the establishment and they'll stay true to their word and everyone else will side with them, even though they don't push the agreed upon religious or union agendas. Of course, that's why things will never change. You and I are taught from birth that the bullshit which has been constant for generations is somehow only a vote away from changing. That we have the true power. That, why, one vote can suddenly stop the massive waves of people on the left and right who want to control every aspect of our lives and our thoughts.

And as long as we buy into that -- and as long as we care more about the next episode of a show where someone dances with famous people or a bunch of nattering hens on a daily morning show or the success of our commercial sports team that share our exact . . . um . . . zip code -- we'll continue to get what we've always gotten. And continue to believe that we're somehow making things change, when they're staying the same.

Re:Ron Paul

[OgreChow (206018)]

Of course, as a politician, Ron Paul (if he even actually had a chance), would become just another bullshit politician, so it's all a moot point.


As far as I can see, he has yet to become a bullshit politician after years of serving in the senate.

Re:Ron Paul

[paitre (32242)]

House of Representatives, not Senate.

Point remains unchanged, though.

Re:

[TheoMurpse (729043)]

I'd prefer a Ron Paul type....I think also he'd do the most to protect privacy and govern more strictly to the Constitution

One would think that, as he is a pretty strict constructionist, he'd read the Constitution as allowing corporations to trade in your private information. He would only oppose the government doing so.

So, pick your poison, I doubt he'd protect online privacy outside of the government realm. Similarly, I'm fairly sure he's against government meddling in the internet, so he surely doesn't s

Re:

[enjerth (892959)]

I respect that SO very much in a public figure, and am completely puzzled as to how exactly he has gotten as far as he has by blatantly displaying such traits.

Probably because there are people who, despite half the news commentators calling Ron Paul a kook or a nutjob, actually respect the man and admire him.

I heard he was crazy. But then I listened to him and now I'm crazy.

Re:Ron Paul

[paitre (32242)]

He's -=personally=- pro-life, but is politically pro-choice.

I know a number of people that are the same way (including myself - I could never condone someone having an abortion except in -very- specific circumstances, but that doesn't mean I'm going to force my personal beliefs on them and prevent them from having one if they feel it is something that they need to do. I could get more into it, but that would be veering further off topic).

Re:Ron Paul

[greginnj (891863)]

He's -=personally=- pro-life, but is politically pro-choice.

Whaa? Check out this link:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/ [ronpaul2008.com].

I find the statements here hard to square with 'politically pro-choice'. I would say he's personally pro-life, politically pro-state's-rights. He would end all federal funding for abortion (e.g. military hospitals, etc.), and would work to reverse Roe v. Wade by essentially making it a state-level issue. The closest he comes to being pro-choice, apparently, is that he is not advocating a nationwide abortion ban via federal law.

Again, his states-rights reading of the constitution leads him to a unique position. I'm borderline pro-choice, but I have to respect his position as consistent with his principles, and preferable to those which would ban abortion outright, nationwide.

Re:

[PopeRatzo (965947)]

Do you live in a pro-choice or pro-life state?

It shouldn't matter whether or not you live in a state with laws with which you disagree. The only important question is whether the woman carrying the fetus is pro-life or pro-choice. Do you really want to live in a country where a young woman in Arkansas has to cross the border to Missouri to get an abortion? Or worse, would you want to live in a state where a doctor would be charged with murder if he were to perform an abortion?

There are many more cases whe

Re:Ron Paul

[swillden (191260)]

Do you really want to live in a country where a young woman in Arkansas has to cross the border to Missouri to get an abortion? Or worse, would you want to live in a state where a doctor would be charged with murder if he were to perform an abortion?

That's an important part of what the founders had in mind when they wrote the constitution as they did. Allowing different states to take different approaches is a *good* thing, particularly since it's very easy for the population of the US to move to a different state if the system in their state doesn't work for them. This creates a sort of competitive market of political approaches, where the approaches that work best *for the people* attract the largest number of people.

Given 50 states with unique political systems, we could experiment with lots of ideas and evolve quickly towards the best of them. Unfortunately, the massive growth of federal power and influence has largely stymied this notion. I think the worst mistakes we've ever made were allowing the federal government to tax citizens directly and making US Senators popularly elected rather than appointed by the state legislatures.

Re:

[PopeRatzo (965947)]

Thanks for your thoughtful response, evought.

Was she "not a human" before a medical accident caused her to be born early?

Yes, of course she was a human. But she wasn't a person until she was born. Being born is a very big deal.

Birth is the beginning of personhood. This seems very simple to me. Yes, I viewed all the ultrasounds of my unborn daughter and felt her kick. But if I had been told that by carrying her to term my wife would die, I would not have hesitated to have put the decision completely i

Re:

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746)]

The Abortion issues aside the idea of letting individual states decide on topics like this is a very good idea IMO.

I disagree. Now I'm a huge proponent of state's rights and shrinking the role of the federal government as well as federal taxes. Abortion and many other topics, however, need to be addressed federally because they are constitutional issues. States cannot be allowed to pass laws that violate the constitution, including the separation of church and state.

How can we expect individual preferences to be respected if we can't even respect the majority preferences of a state sized community?

The reason we have a bill of rights is to prevent the majority from abusing minorities. If states are allowed to pass laws that violate the constitutio

Re:

[Peter La Casse (3992)]

eh. He's pro life. That's mixing faith-based morals with law, which IMHO is about as bad as it gets.

There are pro-life atheists; the issue is not whether or not killing is bad, it's when you think a collection of cells deserves human rights, and how you think that affects society's (or your own) best interests. There are logically consistent positions on both sides.

To keep this post on topic: I think that some libertarian beliefs held by Ron Paul are pro-privacy, but some are not. I agree with those who

I was absolutely pro-Ron Paul until...

[InvisblePinkUnicorn (1126837)]

...until I found out about his opinion regarding the Darfur genocide (watch this excellent Frontline special online [pbs.org] if you have no clue what is happening over there).

While I can understand his not wanting to send troops over there to stop the government from slaughtering its own people, I can not understand his voting against the Divestment Act of 2007 (passed 418-1), which intended "to require the identification of companies that conduct business operations in Sudan, [and] to prohibit United States Government contracts with such companies".

Basically, the act says that if a company is directly helping the Sudanese government act out the genocide of their own people, the US government would not sign a contract with that country.

When I read Paul's argument [govtrack.us], I was even more appalled. Not only did he ignore the currently-known results of divesting from Sudan (in other words, it's working!), he also had the gall to (purposely?) confuse the Darfur genocide with the completely separate North-South civil war. So his basic argument was "we shouldn't be getting involved with other countries' civil wars"

Link to Paul's completely confused speech

[InvisblePinkUnicorn (1126837)]

Here is Paul's speech [lewrockwell.com] in which he confuses the Darfur genocide with the North-South civil war - two completely separate issues (the Sudanese government even said that they were delaying a peace agreement to end the civil war, in order to have a "lasting solution in Darfur" [pbs.org]).

Re:

[FiloEleven (602040)]

I'm willing to bet that his main reason for opposing the bill is found in this sentence:

By allowing State and local governments to label pension and retirement funds as State assets, the Federal Government is giving the go-ahead for State and local governments to play politics with the savings upon which millions of Americans depend for security

Knowing how much monetary matters concern him, and how strictly small-government he is, this seems the most probable driving force behind his "no" vote.

Darfur Genocide and Acts In Congress

[evought (709897)]

Actually, having just read both your references and a bit more, I think his rationale is quite valid. Maybe not perfect, but certainly justifiable.

First, the economic intervention proposed *would* set a dangerous precedent of using pension money for political ends. Regardless of the current ends, the precedent and power *will be* misused. The action should not be taken without careful consideration, which was the main thing Dr. Paul argued in both places: don't be hasty.

In the case of the declaration of gen

Divestment IS NOT intervention

[InvisblePinkUnicorn (1126837)]

Please do not confuse divestment with intervention - there is too much at stake for people to (purposely or ignorantly) confuse the two. There's a big difference between the US government saying to companies, "if you are providing the Sudan government with the equipment to help them mow down their own people, then you will not be entitled to any US government contracts" (ie, divestment) and the US government sending troops over there to protect the victims (intervention).

I can understand Paul being again

Re:Divestment IS NOT intervention

[InvisblePinkUnicorn (1126837)]

If you want to find out how the people who represent YOU have voted, type in your ZIP code here [darfurscores.org].

Learn about Divestment [sudandivestment.org]

Divestment status [sudandivestment.org]

Divestment legislation status [sudandivestment.org]

Re:Ron Paul

[timster (32400)]

What are you talking about? The Constitution says nothing about Internet privacy, so Ron Paul would leave that issue to local control or the free market. Consider his position on the FDA -- he says that it's not necessary for any government body to ensure that drugs or supplements are safe because people will stop buying from companies that sell dangerous ones. Such a president wouldn't care if Google is snooping your search results -- they'd tell you to deal with it or use some other search engine.

Don't get me wrong -- Ron Paul is an interesting candidate, and there are great advantages to a constitutional form of government. I just think that he's becoming the new Ralph Nader, with this underground movement which considers him the solution to all of our problems. He's certainly not the solution to Internet privacy concerns.

MOD PARENT UP

[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

Now this is a post that needs to be modded up! Everything timster wrote is completely true. Ron Paul makes the ridiculously huge assumption that everyone that takes part in our society is totally informed on everything and that they will use that knowledge in making their choices. Reality has shown us time and time again that that is not the case.

Re:

[tm2b (42473)]

Except that he doesn't believe that Federal individual protections apply to states. I don't expect much help from him against anybody *but* the federal government.

Re:

[rtechie (244489)]

Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate I'm aware of that has publicly declared that they consider privacy to be Constitutional right and has fiercely opposed Bush's internet surveillance program.

Ron Paul voted for the FISA extension that allows warrantless wiretaps (unlike Kucinich). He has also voted for numerous "save the children" Internet bills to ban online pornography. He has also voted against consumer protection regulations that would limit private business' ability to collect personal information. H

Re:

[mulhollandj (807571)]

Friends with all nations but alliances with none. As Ron Paul has said many times our greatest export should be freedom but not through the barrel of a gun. I am firmly against empire building, which the US and many other nations have done for a while. We should be very much involved in world affairs, but not seek to control others.

Re:

[Elemenope (905108)]

Quote from you: Can you name one sovereign nation that US has ever taken over in order to expand its borders and impose its laws over? Hint: Texas don't count.

You are splitting hairs on "conquered territories" vs. "sovereign nations". Places that were once not part of the US become part of the US by force and then are dictated to. That is the argument (which I think is a reasonable reading of your comment) to which I was responding. Many of those places had legitimate sovereigns who were contravened by U

Re:Ron Paul

[rk (6314)]

Ignoring the strawman* you've erected for the moment, let's talk about the war on drugs and tell me how you expect to stop the flow of drugs. My brother-in-law got busted for smoking pot in September. Trouble was, at the time he was already in a maximum security prison, and has been for nearly seventeen years now. So please tell me: If we can't keep illicit drugs away from felons in a maximum security prison, how do you propose we keep them away from 300 million people in the third largest country in the world, geographically speaking? If your answer is to turn the entire country into a giant ultra-supermax gulag, you've pretty much admitted defeat in my eyes, as I find that wholly unacceptable.

* - I have a friend who had a terrible heroin addiction for years. He's been clean for about six years now, but I'm still opposed to the war on drugs. Also, compare and contrast: isolationist vs. non-interventionist. Pat Buchanan is an isolationist. Most libertarians are non-interventionists... though it is a fair cop to say some have isolationist tendencies.

Re:

[Kamots (321174)]

My desire is (in short) that people are free to do as they choose as long as thier choices only affect themselves... when your choices start affecting others your choices should be restricted (who restricts and to what degree for what level of affectation I'm not going to get into...)

Anyways, as for hurting people when high... if I'm making bad choices in how/when/where I'm doing drugs so that I'm placing others at risk, then punish me for that. If I'm responsible and get high in an environment where I'm n

Re:Ron Paul

[MSTCrow5429 (642744)]

Wait a sec, I'm a Jew, I back Ron Paul, I know other Jews that also back Ron Paul (no, not my family), so how are we like David Duke? There are David Duke types hanging around like fleas at the periphery of every campaign, but they are a minority on the fringe.

Re:

[Mateo_LeFou (859634)]

Must be some usage of the term "insightful" with which I was previously unfamiliar. My advice to you, sir, is not to vote for any of Ron Paul's *supporters in the presidential election.

Re:Ron Paul

[tjw (27390)]

Was this just a Ron Paul ad disguised as a story?

It's sad that using the words "privacy" and "presidential candidate" in a question is grounds for getting it dismissed as "just a Ron Paul ad".

everyone's opinion?

[magarity (164372)]

I'd like to know everyone's opinion about which presidential candidate
 
Before it even starts, can we just mod the entire discussion 'troll' and 'flamebait'? Instead of trawling for opinions, please browse either the Senate voting records or gubernatorial voting records of the candidates.

Dennis Kucinich

[_bug_ (112702)]

Haven't seen or heard anything specific to online privacy. I'd be willing to be it's low on the list of issues for most.

I'd guess Dennis Kucinich [dennis4president.com] given his website statements regarding the Patriot Act [dennis4president.com] and other government policies that deal with (directly or indirectly) an individual's privacy. I would expect that view extends to the online world.

Re:Dennis Kucinich

[Eravnrekaree (467752)]

Kucinich does support net neutrality:
http://www.freepress.net/news/23995 [freepress.net]

He has also been one of the strongest supports of civil liberties in the house and has repeatedly voted down legislation that erodes away americans civil liberties.

Re:

[kalirion (728907)]

I haven't seen the Republican Congress/White House do anything to stop those ridiculous eminent domain seizures of private property just so that a Walmart can be built in its place.

I"d tell you...

[Lally Singh (3427)]

but it's an invasion of the candidate's privacy.

Ron Paul

[faloi (738831)]

I don't think he's got a shot at really getting elected, but of all the candidates he seems to be the most likely to stand up for Constitutional rights. Second to him is, for Internet privacy at least, is possibly Obama. I don't think Obama can stay away from the pull of Hollywood and various *AA's to maintain full Internet privacy though.

The rest either don't care so much about the Constitution or are so far in the pockets of special interests that the only thing I can be sure of is that it's going to continue being a bumpy ride for the next four years.

Re:Ron Paul

[Seumas (6865)]

Like most politicians, Obama will support the internet policies that his lobbiests tell him to support.

Re:

[$RANDOMLUSER (804576)]

I find him to be refreshingly contrary for a politician. He was just talking up open data formats, despite the fact that Microsoft is building a 500 million dollar data ceneter in his state.

Re:

[Elemenope (905108)]

Ditto on Paul, Obama...though I maintain the naive hope that Obama is more independent of those interests than we might assume. What I like about Obama in addition is his stance about the government's privacy rights; namely, he doesn't think there are any. His stance on government online operability and transparency is refreshing and, so far, unreplicated by the others, even Paul. IIRC, he did some good stuff on both in the Illinois legislature dduring his stint there; caught my eye.

So sensible you would

Not their job.

[Rahga (13479)]

It's the executive branch's job to uphold the law... but as it is right now, there's no shortage of laws that pay lip service to the need of ISPs and such to keep private e-mail private, while another batch of laws circumvent this in a wide array of circumstances both dealing with national security and private matter. Say, a publicly traded company can't exactly keep e-mail secure if there potential for insider trading.

Not that the public really has a clue, though... Sadly, we've learned that our local public schools will gladly hand over authority to the federal government in exchange for a few measly dollars, so any presidential candidate could make a promise dealing with a matter that he/she officially has no role in, and you can be that laws will be passed and departments created that make it their role.

Bluntly? None are interested in your privacy.

[Opportunist (166417)]

Simple as that. Privacy means less control, and by going into politics, they already proved that they want to be in control. Furthermore, more privacy for you means less information for the industry, i.e. the ones that gave the politicians money.

Privacy isn't something any politician will give you. Privacy is something you have to take if you want it. Voting for privacy simply won't work.

FredDC

[FredDC (1048502)]

I'm not an American, but because the US is so influential in the world these elections are also important and interesting to me. This will have an indirect result on my life as well.

On the subject of online privacy, anything the US government decides on this matter will certainly affect me. Many sites (like Slashdot) that I visit are created and hosted in the US.

If the US decides to invade my privacy when visiting these sites, I will stay away from them. I have already decided to no longer visit the US, as long as it means having my fingerprints taken and such. I am not a criminal and I don't wish to be treated as one! I hope the US citizens (or at least enough of them) realize they are alienating themselves from the rest of the world. And that isn't in the best interest for any of us!

Ron Paul

[by Anonymous Coward]

Ron Paul's stance on Privacy and Personal Liberty [ronpaul2008.com].

"The biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding citizens' personal matters."

Re:Ron Paul

[hey! (33014)]

Actually, there are laws NOW that limit government collection and trolling through personal information it has collected about its citizens to look for potential criminals. It can't use tax, census or social security data to feed its intelligence and law enforcement databases; it can only use data it collects for intel or law enforcement purposes.

The loophole is that the government can simply fill its intelligence and law enforcement database with equivalent data purchased on the open market.

This is a perfect illustration of the problem of looking at government as the sole source of privacy concerns. Once everybody can find out things about your private life, you can't stop the government from knowing too.

Remember

[usul294 (1163169)]

Right to privacy is not a specific constitutional right. It is inferred from a couple different amendments,(3,4,10 I believe) so claiming that someone who is a strict constitutionalist would be big supporter of privacy would not work. That doesn't mean the right doesn't exist, but it does mean that it is open to more interpretation than other "rights". I always hate a "right to privacy" debate, because it doesn't have any sort of set definition.

Re:Remember

[Dr. Donuts (232269)]

You've got it exactly backwards, and unfortunately many folks have a hard time understanding Constitutional logic.

First, you have *ALL* rights. ALL means ALL. Whether they are enumerated/defined or not, you have them. The Constitution was written specifically in this manner, so not to suggest that the People got their rights from the Government or laws, but rather the other way around.

The impact of such logical construction of the Constitution means that rights that were undefinable or even unfathomable back then were *automatically* protected from infringement by the Government.

Amendment 10 further extended this logic, by actually explicitly stating all rights are reserved by the People and the States, rather than just implying it.

Dennis Kucinich

[Eravnrekaree (467752)]

Dennis Kucinich has repeatedly voted against bills that would deprive americans of their freedom and privacy. He voted against the Patriot Act which erodes away key civil liberties, and the "Thought Crime Bill" http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2007/261007_ensnare_activists.htm [prisonplanet.com] , which could be, which is so broadly worded and loosely defined it could be used against peaceful activists. Even Ron Paul did not vote against the Thought Crime Bill. Kucinich was one of only 6 representatives to vote against it. If you want freedom, and you want your liberties preserved, the best choice is Kucinich.

you are uninformed or malicious

[dh003i (203189)]

You make it sound like RP supported the bill with a YES vote. He did not vote on the bill, because he was not there when it was being voted on. He was campaigning. Since a few others already made the symbolic NO vote against tyranny, providing arguments, there was really little more for RP to add; aside, of course, from his own unique eloquent opposition to tyranny.

IAASPS

[Digitus1337 (671442)]

(I Am A Student of Political Science)

Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul are the two on either side of the aisle that seem most likely to preserve Internet Privacy. That said, they are probably also the two running that have the least likelihood of even placing in a primary. Besides not looking presidential, they both have very unique (among their fellow candidates at least) agendas. Paul would like to shut down just about every government agency and put an end to all positive liberties. Kucinich is for more (suprisingly enough) contemporarily liberal reforms, taking us in not quite the opposite direction, but pushing for more positive liberties. Both are interested in individual rights and are (for now) in it for something other than promoting the interests of contributors.

Here...

[Sir_Real (179104)]

Both of the slashdot users that won't be voting Ron Paul can enjoy their own thread.