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NZ MPs Outlaw Satire of Parliament

Posted by kdawson on Sun Jul 29, 2007 03:45 AM
from the head-and-shoulders-only dept.
mernil writes "New Zealand's Parliament has voted itself far-reaching powers to control satire and ridicule of MPs in Parliament, attracting a storm of media and academic criticism. The new standing orders, voted in last month, concern the use of images of Parliamentary debates, and make it a contempt of Parliament for broadcasters or anyone else to use footage of the chamber for 'satire, ridicule or denigration.' The new rules are actually more liberal than the previous ones, but the threat of felony contempt is new."
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  • This means that Jon Stewart would get pretty low ratings in NZ - wouldn't he?
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Well his show last Wednesday/Thursday certainly wouldn't as it attacked this very policy by insulting the New Zealand government using their footage.
    • What New Zealanders say about themselves is often much stronger than anything Jon Stewart says. Stories about New Zealand on Slashdot all seem to give the impression that N.Z. is a country like the United States. Actually, only 4 million people live there, so it is more like a city in the U.S. than the U.S. itself.

      Anyhow, apparently some New Zealanders think that N.Z. has an exaggerated self-importance. So they joke about their country. For example: Adult Sheep Finder [adultsheepfinder.com] "New Zealand's #1 Internet Dating Site". (The site is partly a reference to the fact that raising sheep is the main agricultural activity in New Zealand; although there are only 4 million people, there are 60 million sheep.)

      I doubt the N.Z. parliament will stop "satire, ridicule or denigration". In fact, the idea is absurd. Remember, the story Alice in wonderland [wikipedia.org] was partly a parody [victorianweb.org] of the English king and queen, when saying negative things about the monarchy was illegal. That was in England, and it is sometimes said that New Zealanders are "more English than the English".
    • Hmmmm. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by WindBourne (631190) on Sunday July 29 2007, @08:10AM (#20031431) Journal
      I wonder if USA would allow a reporter or somebody to be extradited from here to NZ over this? It goes against the very grain that we use to stand for. But with us asking for other countries to send us those who have committed IP issues, would we hand stewart over if he continues to lampoon NZ?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        If that person isn't a citizen of NZ or claims to be a political prisoner, I doubt they would extradite.

        That being said, We should note that there is a difference between stealing IP and general theft or some violent act and politically motivated crimes that are both non violent and don't rise above issues of speech. It is in international law that the US agreed to where they are supposed to offer safe harbor from people like this. Typically, it has been done with countries who are hostile to the US or our
      • Re:Hmmmm. (Score:5, Informative)

        by UncleTogie (1004853) * on Sunday July 29 2007, @12:15PM (#20032893) Homepage Journal
        Here, from the US-NZ extradition treaty:

        Extradition shall be granted, in accordance with the provisions of this Agreement, in respect of the following offenses:
        1. Murder; attempted murder, comprehending the crime designated under law in the United States as assault with intent to commit murder.
        2. Manslaughter.
        3. Aggravated wounding, injuring or assault; wounding or injuring with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.
        4. Unlawful throwing or application of any corrosive or injurious substances.
        5. Rape; indecent assault; sodomy.
        6. Abortion.
        7. Unlawful sexual acts with or upon children under the age specified by the laws of both the requesting
        and requested parties.
        8. Procuring sexual intercourse.
        9. Willful abandonment of a minor under the age of six years when the life of that minor is or is likely to be injured or endangered.
        10. Bigamy.
        11. Kidnapping; child stealing; abduction.
        12. Robbery; assault with intent to rob.
        13. Burglary; housebreaking or shopbreaking.
        14. Larceny.
        15. Embezzlement.
        16. Obtaining property, money or valuable securities by false pretenses or by conspiracy to defraud the
        public or any person by deceit or falsehood or other fraudulent [*3] means, whether such deceit or false-
        hood or any fraudulent means would or would not amount to a false pretense.
        17. Bribery, including soliciting, offering and accepting.
        18. Extortion.
        19. Receiving and transporting any money, valuable securities or other property knowing the same to
        have been unlawfully obtained.
        20. Fraud by promoter, director, manager or officer of any company, existing or not.
        21. Forgery, comprehending the crimes designated under law in the United States as the forgery or false
        making of private or public obligations and official documents or public records of the government or
        public authority or the uttering or fraudulent use of the same; uttering what is forged.
        22. The making or the utterance, circulation or fraudulent use of of counterfeit money or counterfeit seals
        and stamps of the government or public authority.
        23. Knowingly and without lawful authority, making or having in possession any instrument, tool, or
        machine adopted and intended for the counterfeiting of money, whether coin or paper.
        24. Perjury; subornation of perjury.
        25. False swearing.
        26. Arson and damage to property, utilities, or means of transportation or communication by fire or ex-
        plosive.
        27. Any malicious act done with intent to cause danger to property or endanger the safety of any
        person in connection with any means of transportation.
        28. Piracy, by statute or by law of nations; mutiny or revolt on board an aircraft or vessel against the au-
        thority of the captain or commander of such aircraft or vessel; any seizure or exercise of control, by force
        or violence or threat of force or violence, of an aircraft or vessel.
        29. Malicious injury to property, comprehending willful damage to property under New Zealand law.
        30. Offenses against the bankruptcy laws which are punishable by more than three months' imprisonment.
        31. Offenses against the laws relating to the importation, exportation, supply, or possession of narcotics
        including dangerous drugs; abetting offense against corresponding law in another country.
        32. Unlawful obstruction of justice through bribery of judicial officers; corruption and bribery of heads
        of government departments or members of the Congress in the United States, or Ministers of the Crown
        or members of Parliament in New Zealand; corruption and bribery of law enforcement officers or government
        officials; fabrication of evidence; conspiracy to bring false accusation; corrupting juries
        and witnesses by threats, bribes, or other corrupt means.

        Unless they REALLY try to stretch number 32 here, my guess would be "no", although IANAL.
  • Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RAMMS+EIN (578166) on Sunday July 29 2007, @03:58AM (#20030425) Homepage Journal
    ``make it a contempt of Parliament for broadcasters or anyone else to use footage of the chamber for 'satire, ridicule or denigration.''

    Huh? I thought the whole point of Parliament was to be ridiculed and denigrated?
  • Old News (Score:5, Informative)

    by Snad (719864) <mspace@bigfo[ ]com ['ot.' in gap]> on Sunday July 29 2007, @03:58AM (#20030427)

    Good lord, this is very old news.

    The local TV stations have already said they'll ignore it [tv3.co.nz] and certain politicians have already been backing down from their high horse.

    It is unlikely this "law" will have any actual effect on the satirisation, ridicule, or other general highlighting of how usless our MPs actually are.

      • Re:Old News (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mobby_6kl (668092) on Sunday July 29 2007, @06:00AM (#20030901)
        > Satirisation and ridicule are useless and unconstructive. Valid criticism in any democratic state should not be done with insult to the human dignity.

        Hey, napkin-arse, guess what? You're so wrong with your statement, it almost overflows into the "Correct statements" category! Were you by chance on a re-education trip to Russia, China, or North Korea recently? That would certainly explain you idiotic attitude to the whole "freedom of expression" thingie, the whole concept of which has apparently has been erased from your memory in the Paycheck/Spotless Mind style.

        Even if satire is useless, which it is not, people in a free society are expected to be free to satirize as much as they want, even if some dumbasses in the parliament (or on /.) think it's mean to them.

        > Insulting people is not equal to criticism.

        No, but a lot fun can be had when both are done at the same time, and there ain't a goddamn thing you can do about it!
        • To agree with parent, but with a bit more politesse, insulting people and organisations is not only criticism, but it's one of the most effective forms of public criticism known to man -- which is, of course, why the NZ gov't seeks to control it. Think about why they want image satire not to happen, and you will have your answer as to why the critics love to use it: IT WORKS! The government has all the tools at its disposal to influence the public. Satire is one of the few tools the public has that is actu
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            I am not anonymous, I agree with his very valid criticism. Satire has been one of the most effective forms of social critique. It sticks in the minds of common folk and it jabs the people in power. Is it any coincidence that only in abusive pseudo fascists states are there laws forbidding you to infringe on the "dignity" of a public figure? It's because it's effective thus they want it removed.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        And satire is not equal to insult.
        In politics ridicule is often not what the other side makes of an issue, it's more often what someone makes of himself or his issue.

        Throughout history and in many nations and cultures there has been a very constructive place for satire, quite a few bad politicians have been toppled by the satire (and ridicule) their actions provoked.
  • The media will just have to do something like they did during the Michael Jackson trial - get a bunch of political lookalikes, build a parliament set, and then re-enact the day's proceedings. And then they can start having real fun with the politicians...

    Or build a CGI parliament. Then they could release a FPS version of the parliament and you could run round and blast your MPs to death with a BFG.
  • Ultra Vires (Score:3, Informative)

    by Jerry Rivers (881171) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:05AM (#20030465)
    Attempts to muzzle the press or media have been tried before in Commonwealth countries (such as in Alberta in 1934) but those types of laws are usually refused royal assent because they are ultra vires, or beyond the powers of the government to enact such laws. In this case however, there is no legislation involved, only House rules which expire at end of the present session. So it appears they have effectively found, a way, however temporary, to do an end-run around the Bill of Rights. It will be interesting to see if other parliamentary democracies try - and get away with - the same tactic.
    • Attempts to muzzle the press or media have been tried before in Commonwealth countries (such as in Alberta in 1934) but those types of laws are usually refused royal assent because they are ultra vires, or beyond the powers of the government to enact such laws.

      Actually Alberta is not a Commonwealth country, it is a province within one and I believe it was 1935 and the legislation only required papers to print government rebuttals to stories which they ran (so it was bad but not incredibly so). It might h
  • by Anonymous Coward
    How is it that a person can grow up in a society of people, enter government, and then vote to enact a law that so evidently goes against the freedoms of that society?

    I understand that people in government feel some shame about their corruption and dishonesty, and would like to keep as much of their activities secret as possible, but have they lost all conscience and connection with the people? Also, do they not imagine how making certain laws might make it easier to expand the laws to the point of oppress
  • by marcovje (205102) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:17AM (#20030519)
    (obligatory 1984 reference)

    Who is going to police it? The newly set up Ministry of Truth?
  • by petes_PoV (912422) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:18AM (#20030525)
    By coincidence, there was a programme on TV yesterday about the origins of democracy (in Athens, 400BC). One point that came across strongly was that when democracy is strong, states are willing to put up with more criticism.

    As democracy weakens, states clamp down on their critics and introduce more extreme punishments for transgressors.

    This sounds like a good example of this kind of action - sadly it seems to be getting more common across the world, not just in NZ.

  • Those New Zealand MPs really have a sense of humour. This is self-parody.

  • by jesterzog (189797) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:42AM (#20030615) Homepage Journal

    As a New Zealander I've found this very disappointing. Normally I associate New Zealand as having a very open and non-corrupt national government with an open information policy (written into law through New Zealand's Official Information Act), and without too many layers of bureaucracy. I'd much rather have an environment where the media is free to take what pictures they like. To put it in context though, the main section of New Zealand's television media, which is most directly affected by this, really is hopeless. Personally I think the un-professionalism of many of the journalists has really encouraged parliament to add some limitations, appropriate or not.

    There are only two major providers of television news in New Zealand -- one state-owned (TV1) and another private (TV3, owned by CanWest). Neither actually invests in quality journalism any more. They invest in news that can double as entertainment to sell commercials in a prime-time entertainment slot. The way they advertise their own news programmes makes this obvious, and on television there's no alternative. TV3, in particular, spends a lot of time trying to stress how much better it is than TV1. Any story that has anything to do with that is promoted to the front of its bulletin.

    Most reporters are young and inexperienced, with the experienced journalists having either lost their jobs, retired or moved overseas for better opportunities. A lot of reports seem to be more about making sure people know who the reporter is and adding superlatives, annoying clichés, metaphors, and background music that just distract from the actual information. The only reason I bother to watch locally produced television news programmes in New Zealand these days (with a few exceptions) is to get some pictures, but I cringe at the commentary that comes with them. Many of those who are left have an attitude where they like to claim they're hugely important, but in general they're not actually providing quality journalism to back it up. I've found it quite sickening watching this whole thing play out, because the media that's kicking up such a storm isn't actually demonstrating that it's worthy of the right it's wanting.

    I'm quite amazed when I flick over to BBC and see something like Hard Talk [bbc.co.uk], which is just amazing in comparison to what we have locally produced. I really wish we could have that kind of quality in a local production, but I suspect the country just isn't large enough to have the resources for a reliable media.

    If you are in New Zealand, try listening to MediaWatch [radionz.co.nz] on National Radio (or stream it if you prefer). Personally I think it's one of the most insightful commentaries on the New Zealand media available. (The show on 1st July actually covered this issue.)

    • by nickgrieve (87668) on Sunday July 29 2007, @05:16AM (#20030717) Journal
      Hear hear!

      I have had to stop watching the 6pm news. All it does is make me angry, I end up exasperated near yelling at the screen "This is not news!!, of all thats going on in the world today,.. you give us fluff!"

      • by michaelnz (701047) on Sunday July 29 2007, @07:30AM (#20031261) Homepage
        I'm an American who has been living in New Zealand nearly 4 years now. I watch a fair bit of television here and I can say have lived in both the states and here that New Zealand television news is many times better than American TV. There's a bit of fluff and the a few annoying personality driven pieces but compared to American local and national news it's amazingly well done. Both TVNZ and TV3 compete to have news that's informative and entertaining and generally they do well. Stories aren't limited to national concerns and international news is featured prominently, something that never happens in the states.

        Things aren't as bad as they could be, trust me, we've got it good here compared to the states.
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            I have to admit that regardless of what else they churn out, the BBC's produced some of the best television journalism I've seen. My favourite example is a 1981 Horizon interview with Richard Feynman. [bbc.co.uk] The entire clip (about an hour from memory) is just Richard Feynman continuously talking about his ideas and his life. No screen-time at all was wasted in showing an interviewer. Someone was obviously behind the camera to ask questions and guide topics, but those parts were edited out.

            Granted that he wasn

  • It sounds rather satirical itself. The mere mention of it could get you locked up.
  • News? (Score:2, Insightful)

    This is news? Handy rule of thumb: If you're three days behind the Daily Show in covering a news item, you've probably lost the right to describe that story as "news".
  • by dickko (610386) on Sunday July 29 2007, @05:21AM (#20030731)
    Here's the actual link to the order in question:
    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/ b/2/0/48HansD_20070628_00000893-Standing-Orders-Se ssional.htm [parliament.nz]

    Basically, this is a sessional order, and will be reviewed after the next election, if not sooner. Based on current popular opinion, it won't last...

    Methinks this was introduced because, as others have pointed out, it's much easier for New Zealand's TV stations to fill the 10 minutes between ad breaks with name-calling and napping politicians than it is to actually do some proper journalism. Seriously, the journalism here is so pathetic; with this order in place, TV3's "political editor", Duncan Garner, is screwed.

    Also, what Jon Stewart did on the Daily show, as far as I can tell, isn't in breach of the order. Satire of the politician is fine, however showing images of them picking their nose isn't...
  • by Hannah E. Davis (870669) on Sunday July 29 2007, @05:21AM (#20030735) Journal
    I'm presently in the middle of reading an English translation of Mein Kampf. Earlier tonight, I got to the part where Hitler talks about the dangers of "freedom of the press" -- he rants at length about the need to control it completely, and to stop it from poisoning the state with lies and digging up dirt on even the most noble politicians.

    Needless to say, while I am well aware that NZ can hardly be compared to Nazi Germany, I found this news quite disturbing.
    • It's true that a free press _is_ dangerous. He was right about that much. It causes all kinds of trouble.

      However, a free press is nonetheless less dangerous than a government that controls the press -- as he himself proved to anyone who was paying any attention whatever.
  • YouTube law (Score:3, Interesting)

    by oohshiny (998054) on Sunday July 29 2007, @07:14AM (#20031187)
    This sounds like a YouTube law. These politicians are scared of appearing in public with "macaca" and "tubes":

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=r90z0PMnKwI [youtube.com]

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=f99PcP0aFNE [youtube.com]

    and the remixes...

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=EtOoQFa5ug8 [youtube.com]

    Well, one might say that sound bites are not a fair way of characterizing the entire work of a politician. I think they are right: with Stevens and Allen, the rotten attitudes seem to go far deeper.

    Laws like this aren't going to be very effective, but these people are running scared.
  • by Flying pig (925874) on Sunday July 29 2007, @07:44AM (#20031329)
    Over here in the UK we have been finding out just how much our national broadcaster has been lying to us. In particular, how during the miners' strike in the 1980s the order of footage was reversed to suggest that miners had attacked police, when the exact opposite was the case (the police baton charged a picket line.) We are also finding out just how broadcasters and newspapers have been lying by association - deliberately waiting for a politician to, say, yawn and then using the picture to suggest that he was asleep during a debate. I am no fan of Bush but it is obvious that the US press does exactly the same, trying to get photos of him looking like a chimpanzee.

    This is we the people being manipulated by professional liars. It seems to me that the NZ parliament has every right to demand that footage of its debates not be manipulated to suggest things that are not true.

    Interestingly, a recent opinion poll in the UK suggested that younger people are less worried about media distortion of public events and people. I suggest this is a mistake. They should be. They have the least political power, the least share of the national wealth. Allowing people who are mostly rich, overentitled middle aged white males to foist lies on them by distorting apparent photographic footage suggests that, at the very least, compulsory reading of _1984_, the history of the 1920s in Russia and history of the 1930s in Germany should be considered.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Over here in the UK we have been finding out just how much our national broadcaster has been lying to us. In particular, how during the miners' strike in the 1980s the order of footage was reversed to suggest that miners had attacked police, when the exact opposite was the case (the police baton charged a picket line.)

      Not sure where the miners strike comes in to the current kerfuffle: there has been a recent storm-in-a-teacup about a slightly misleading trailer for a documentary that purported to show the

  • by ArhcAngel (247594) on Sunday July 29 2007, @11:17AM (#20032519)
    This is just another attempt to medicate the symptom (dissent) instead of addressing the disease (apathy, corruption, disillusionment) which is a MUCH bigger issue. I'll forgo the soap box but we as a world are heading for a Roman Empire type meltdown on a global scale if we don't start appreciating what we do have instead of whining about what we don't. The world will never be perfect but it's still pretty dang amazing.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Um.. New Zealand is not apart of Australia....
    • by MichaelSmith (789609) on Sunday July 29 2007, @03:57AM (#20030421) Homepage Journal

      The Australian government takes itself far too serious

      I won't disagree with you on that, but what does this have to do with Australia?

    • by SQL Error (16383) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:03AM (#20030457)

      The Australian government takes itself far too serious. Australia has some of the most draconian privacy / internet laws on the book and the populace does not doe much about it because it doesn't involve them directly (yet). Little by little freedoms are eroded.
      Uh, dude, couple of points.

      First, despite what the evidence found around Bondi Beach might suggest, New Zealand is not officially part of Australia.

      Second, draconian privacy laws are a good thing. That would mean harsh penalties for companies breaching individuals' right to privacy. I don't think this is what you meant... But it's actually pretty accurate.

      Third, on the internet laws... If you host a porn site in Australia, and someone complains, and the complaint is upheld, your site can be taken down. You are completely free to host the same content outside Australia. Australians are free to view the content wherever it's hosted. That, really, is about it.

      (Until last November I was head of tech support at a small Aussie ISP, so I have some familiarity with the laws involved.)
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          Actually I'm australian and you might want to read up on what happens. Here ISPs can take any of your details and use them how you like. The government can ban any sites it wants to, based on any content, and it is up to ISPs to do so. Doesn't matter if it isn't technically possible, the ISPs must comply and if they fail they're shut down by constant recursive fines. This week it's government satire, next week it'll be criticism of the government, the week after that nobody will be able to mention the name

    • by Don_dumb (927108) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:09AM (#20030487)
      Its NEW ZEALAND not Australia you moron. Look at a fucking map.

      Sorry, I have a headache.
    • Presumably it's as far reaching as the NZ courts are, so Youtube posts by Americans who procured copies should be safe enough.

      Funny thing though, is that the media has already stated it won't blindly comply with them. It'll be interesting to see how far they go though.
      • by dufus4 (581604) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:11AM (#20030497) Homepage
        It's not even the courts - it's treated as a contempt of Parliament, so it goes before the Privileges Committee (i.e. a select committee of MPs).

        That said, it's very unlikely that anything of the sort will come of it. It's just not worth the trouble for them, especially since the media are so pissed about it now.
      • by delt0r (999393) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:23AM (#20030545)
        As a NZ'er I can assure you that the media at large will completely ignore this rule. Most of the papers have a regular comic making fun of the parliament (Its easy to do, since they are all twits), they won't drop that. Police and Judges will not want to waste there time with it either. It will be unenforceable because everyone who does the enforcing enjoys a good laugh too. Especially at the current government.
        • by timmarhy (659436) on Sunday July 29 2007, @04:27AM (#20030559)
          laws are never made to be ignored nor unenforcable. they will pull this one out when it suits them mark my words.
          • You are right. We should not rely on selective enforcement of laws. In this case, I suspect that it will get "struck down" or whatever later via some back bencher looking for a cause.
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Anonymous Coward

              Not sure about that . . . it sure looks like the US' current immigration laws are indeed ignored and unenforceable. Any serious attempt at enforcement nowadays results in screams of racism.

              Obviously you have never tried to immigrate to the USA. I am in the process of doing just that, and it is not easy. I certainly don't think that the laws are "ignored and unenforceable" in my case. And I'm not screaming "racism" because of it, nor have I heard anyone else do so. But enough about my single data-point.

              I think it's way too simplistic a gambit for you to play the "race" card in this discussion in order to imply the other side does. Certainly in some contexts, one might say that US immigrat