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Russia Claims IP Rights In Manufacture of AK-47
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Jun 03, 2007 02:01 PM
from the kalashnikov's-yer-uncle dept.
from the kalashnikov's-yer-uncle dept.
Daniel Dvorkin writes "In the latest example of over-the-top intellectual property demands, Russia wants licensing fees for the production of AK-47s. According to first deputy prime minister Sergei Ivanov, the unlicensed production of Kalashnikovs (which have been around in very nearly their current form for 60 years) in ex-Soviet Bloc countries is 'intellectual piracy.' A giant but declining power starts demanding royalties on commonly used methods and materials that are widely understood, well known, and by any reasonable standard have long been in the public domain — does this sound familiar?" Wikipedia notes that the Izhevsk Machine Tool Factory in Russia obtained a patent on the manufacture of the AK-47 in 1999.
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Pay or Die! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Pay or Die! (Score:5, Funny)
Every single bullet on the planet will be recoded to stop working in old unpatched guns.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No, they will change the manufacturing process to stop those dastardly internet pirates.
Every single bullet on the planet will be recoded to stop working in old unpatched guns.
you say this... but i remember hearing that soviet ak47's have a slightly larger round than the exported model. the reason being that if they capture enemy weaponry they could use the smaller rounds in the russian model, but the enemy who capture russian rounds is shit outta luck. how true this is i cannot say, as i would think that the chamber should be a snug fit for the ammo.
Re:Pay or Die! (Score:5, Informative)
It is of note that 7.62x51 NATO will not chamber and fire in an AK (x39) or any x54R chambered firearm - The former because the NATO round is way too long to even remotely safely chamber, and the latter because the NATO round is shorter and not rimmed and will swim around in the x54R chamber, probably rupturing the case on ignition if the firing pin reaches the primer at all.
Long rant made short: Don't try to sound smart on topics about which you know nothing. Check your facts; Hollywood isn't a source.
Parent
Re:Pay or Die! (Score:5, Insightful)
In my defense, I was remembering a conversation eight years past with a neighbor fifty years my senior. And hosing it. That or Sully hosed it in the first place, I'm not sure.
Parent
Re:Pay or Die! (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Pay or Die! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Controlling the Russian Beast (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Controlling the Russian Beast (Score:5, Insightful)
That doesn't sound non-Western to me. I wish it did, but wishes don't make truth.
Parent
Re:Controlling the Russian Beast (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Controlling the Russian Beast (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent up as insightful. Buddy of mine had a grad school prof who was a Russian expert that was called in by Clinton. Told Bubba that he should support Democracy and not Yeltsin.
Ol' Bubba loved dealing with a drunk Yeltsin too much to do the noble thing and...we have reaped what he sowed.
I watched it happen and thought it was a bad idea to support Yeltsin, but Clinton felt he was getting a patsy, thinking short term and not about the future or the damage his actions might have on others.
Parent
Re:Controlling the Westernised Russian Beast (Score:4, Informative)
The current western version of democracy is just public relations theory. It is about making the public think they have some say in who rules their country without actually giving them too much. The problem is that we are given such a small selection of people to choose who will rule us from (2 in the US) that it does not actualy count as a democracy according to the strict (original) definition.
The other problem is that once a particular person / party has been elected they are very hard to remove from power even if they make some very unpopular decisions. A better description of the current system in the US or UK (or Russia for that matter) would be an elected dictatorship. Some countries in Europe do slightly better by allowing proportional representation rather than "first past the post" but these still probably would not count as a democracy in the orignal sense.
One problem with current democracy is that you need huge amounts of money to get elected, this rules out most people. This may also explain why both of the frontrunner democratic candidates (Barrack and Hillary) have taken money from the RIAA even though a great deal of the american population (I have not said majority of the US population so lets not get into semantics) voted them the worst company in the US.
(The source for this is here: http://consumerist.com/consumer/worst-company-in-
Anyone who has read this far might find it interesting too look at the definition of Democracy with respect to constitutional republics as defined on the wikipedia page here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy [wikipedia.org]
Please also note that I am not trying to argue that one is superior to the other, I am just trying to suggest that democracy is often overrated when used in the modern context of the word.
I also take issue with you implying that western democracies are impartial with regard to race or sexual orientation. Until the US elect a black gay man as president or the US senate is made up of the same balance as the general population I think this is a hard case to make. Wikipedia also has a good page on this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_demographics_
In many ways the US is moving away from impartiality in politics with regard to sexual orientation as religion becomes higher on the list of criteria people consider when choosing how to cast their vote.
In my view the primary western value in recent years has been profit, and Russians have certainly embraced this with open arms. That is what the whole IP issue with regard to AK's is all about. They want money for people using what is a Russian state design (and a damn good one). The man who invented and designed the original AK was at the time of its design, a serving Russian military officer. If wanting to get money for what you or your employees invent is not a western value then where does the current US stance on copyright come from?
Parent
When was direct democracy tried? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
*shrug* (Score:4, Interesting)
Or how about a bit of gay bashing [liveleak.com]?
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Pay or Die! (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Pay or Die! (Score:4, Insightful)
That's what subcontractors are for.
The argument that Halliburton was the only company big enough for the job is so completely bogus, it's laughable. That's the ignorant Sunday afternoon talkshow talking point.
The Pentagon could have farmed it out to a number of smaller contractors, with anyone else being a primary, and the rest a sub, or they could have split it up to a smaller number of contracts with multiple primaries. This no-bid contract was pure war-profiteering. Nothing more. The proof is in the result. The amount of fraud and waste in this deal is the worst in history. And that was determined under a regime of very unusually relaxed bookkeeping rules that Congressional Republicans pushed strongly for.
Parent
What do you want them to do? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The Western AR-15 design has been wildly successful in this regard, with what is a de-facto open-source system. It's a highly modular design which has been widely tested with numerous production variations, accessories, and consumables.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Public Domain. (Score:3, Interesting)
The AK-47 was developed under what is arguably the worst state monopoly system in history and is public domain. Specific improvements might be patented but many people paid a heavy price for it's original development and production. Ironically enough, it probably violated several western patents at the time but not even the USSR had the nerve to own ideas outside it's territory. Other nations and companies were free to make AK-47 all day long until the 1999 patent.
So yes, it was open source in a way,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds fair to me (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what we get for playing IP games and "owning" ideas.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Fantasies about intellectual property (Score:3, Insightful)
Why manufacture AK-47s when they could buy them by the thousands in the open market, from Soviet factories, or from their clients around the world at pennies on the dollar?
The only people the Russians are going after right now are companies that, when they went into production of the rifle, were ORDERED to make them - not exactly a good argument for intellectual property rights,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably not (Score:3, Informative)
"The invention shall be granted legal protection if it is novel,
possesses an inventive level and is commercially applicable."
Since it's been in production for over 50 years, it's certainly not "novel."
If they argue for patentability from the initial design, then the patent time lapsed many years ago (their protection limits max out at 20 years).
So no, it's not "the law," it's just Russia being Russia.
Re:Sounds fair to me (Score:4, Insightful)
Central Romania feels very energy-poor, but that's an infrastructure rather than an availability issue; it's a big place, and not a wealthy one, and they haven't yet got round to putting in the wires and the pipes universally.
Parent
Russia? No, the company. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Russia? No, the company. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
No one would listen (Score:4, Insightful)
Update. (Score:3, Informative)
For a list of AK-47 producing sites follow the link: http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Factories.php [ak-47.us]
Regards.
Re:Update. (Score:5, Informative)
I know this because my parents live in Izhevsk and work at Izhevsk Mechanical Factory (Izhevsky Mechanichesky Zavod) which makes hunting and sport rifles.
Parent
Prior art, etc. (Score:5, Insightful)
During the Cold War, at least a dozen Warsaw Pact and non-aligned countries produced copies and variants of the AK47, with the Soviet Union's tacit, if not overt, blessing. Even now, new AKs are being built by blacksmiths in Pakistan and US gunsmiths (the latter do this to comply with ATF regulations that prohibit import of receivers and assembled rifles).
Now that the Cold War is over, Russia wants to get paid? I'd think that with all their oil and gas income, licensing fees would be a pittence by comparison.
k.
AK-47 patent violations (Score:5, Funny)
Doesn't matter to me (Score:5, Funny)
They say it's totally legal
AK-47, Prior art and GPL (Score:5, Interesting)
So there is a strong case for prior art, with patents (?) already held by the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany.
After this point, the AK-47 used a different manufacturing technique to greatly simplify the build compared to the MP44. However, these simplified blueprints are very very closely related to the Tokarev SVT. If you have ever stripped down an SVT, and compared this to an AK, you will see they are pretty much the same construction techniques, just in a different scale.
Secondly - I dont know if anyone can remember 'The Soviet Union', but it was a communist state based on the ideals of Marxism, geographically located to the East of Europe. Its a 20th Century thing - ancient history. The 'rights' to the AK47 lie entirely with the Soviet state. NOT Russia - but the Soviet Union, which is a different animal entirely. Unless of course Mr Putin wishes to disagree
Thirdly, being a Soviet state, the 'intellectual property' produced by that state belongs to the workers, and not just the workers who form part of the collective of that state, but all the workers of the world. The AK47 was, if you like, GPL'ed to the point where all workers of the world were free (even encouraged) to make millions of copies of the people's machine gun, and use this tool to overthrow their Fascist, Capitalist, Monarchist oppressors.
So don't pay attention to the lawyers good people - if you find yourself slaving away 60+ hours a week to make other people rich whilst you can barely put food on your table - then by all means, get together with your comrades and build yourselves some AK47's. Anyone that denies you that basic right is a Capitalist oppressor and a Fascist invader of the Motherland.
Re:AK's are varied and spread far & wide (Score:5, Informative)
The best AK-47 variant is produced in Finland:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rk_62 [wikipedia.org]
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rk_62 [wikipedia.org]
http://www.ak-47.us/Finland.php [ak-47.us]
This weapon (RK-62) is widely considered to be the best assault rifle in general.
Parent
Re:AK's are varied and spread far & wide (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Not quite true... Urban legend time (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, he wasn't. The US was funding a different set of Afghans versus the Soviets at the time (there were multiple groups fighting them), and bin Laden was getting his support from the Saudis and other Islamists. That's part of the reason he dislikes the US so much - we were funding his competition.
Re:Not quite true... Urban legend time (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Although being rather similar in design, one can not say AK-47 would be a rip-off of Sturmgewehr-44 (I suppose that's what you meant with "MP44").
Even wikipedia.de states your oppinion as merely a theory supported by some, not as a commonly accepted fact.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Russia MAY have been headed towards communism for a few years under Lenin. Never since then has it even tried to be communist. They used the rhetoric, but that's something different.
FWIW, this was probably wise of them. I may not like dictatorships, but at least they can be made to, sort of, work. I'm not convinced that communism could ever be made to work on larger than a village scale. Even then it's iffy. And I doubt that Marxism could ever work on ANY scale. Groups that I'm awa
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Same tech, different caliber (Score:3, Interesting)
(Anyway, mine's legal: I own a Saiga-12, a 12-gauge semi-auto Kalashnikov shotgun manufactured by Ishmash in Izhevsk. It's the fastest, most reliable semi-auto shotgun on God's gray Earth, for only about $400. Even in that huge caliber, it's pretty much the same gun).