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Thailand Bans YouTube
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Apr 05, 2007 08:56 AM
from the getting-to-be-popular dept.
from the getting-to-be-popular dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The new government of Thailand that forced its way into power last year has banned the website YouTube after a 44 second clip was found of someone spray painting on a picture of Thailand's king. When Google refused to remove the 'offending' clip the website was redirected to a different page. This comes days after a Swiss man was jailed 10 years for spray painting on pictures of the king while drunk, and is the same government that earlier this year slammed open source software for being useless and buggy."
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Now if only... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now if only... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Now if only... (Score:5, Insightful)
According to Thai standards, that dress is considerably worse than that superbowl nipple flash you americans got. And if you read the page you linked to, you'd have seen that the punishment wasn't a hundred million bucks, but reading to blind children for a few days. For me, I consider that a lot more enlightened than a few millions because the chiiiildren will be soooo damaged by seing a picture of something they sucked on a few years ago.
Parent
Re:Now if only... (Score:4, Insightful)
Whatever you want to call it, "Ass-Backwards" looks the same in any culture.
Parent
Re:Now if only... (Score:5, Insightful)
If there's one thing that always drive me up a wall, it's all of this relativism when it comes to matters of culture. At least in America. For some strange reason, it's become taboo to flat out say, "in my eyes, this culture is fucking insane".
I mean, think about it: there are parts of the world where they believe that the grain that America gives them is giving them AIDS. There are parts of the world where people believe that raping a virgin (babies included) can cure AIDS. There are parts of the world where they execute/impose life sentences on drug dealers (of those who they believe to be drug dealers), yet child prostitution runs rampant, in a semi-open manner. The list goes on. I'll be honest, as far as I'm concerned, it's all fucking backwards.
(PS - I'm not saying America is above reproach, either. Not for a second. Hell, the rest of the world has no problem pointing out what they perceive to be our flaws. Why is it that we can never point out theirs?)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Using materialism/utilitarianism to judge what "backwards" means in terms of moral code is nonsense. We in the West have become habituated to certain phenomenae that were simply unthinkable to us before, and which, after years of religion losing its meaning, are perfectly acceptable to us now. I have Eastern-European friends who have lived in the middle ea
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Now if only... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because that's the nature of making a judgement. If my neighbour thinks it's fine to have sex with children and I don't I'll judge them by my standards. You don't give up making ethical judgements about someone simply because they have different standards. Similarly it seems entirely reasonable to me for people of one culture to critique the ethics of another. And it seems entirely reasonable for people of a culture to use convenient landmarks in their own history to express those critiques.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Thailand isn't "medieval" when it comes to morality - it is thai. Why do you think it is proper to judge a foreign country in terms of our history? They have a different morale, yeah. Now lets hear your objective definition of what makes "better" morales.
Hold on. The grandparent post didn't say Thai morality was any worse; he said it was medieval. Are you saying that medieval morality is worse than modern western morality? Why do you think it is proper to judge a past time in terms of our modern sensibilities?
Hypocrisy aside, posts like these are a real source of irritation to me. If the grandparent poster has no right to judge the Thai government on morality, what right does the Thai government have to judge others, even those within its own borders?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The government should serve its people, not the other way around. The king is hugely popular, AFAIK. If this action offends the people of the country, then the law should reflect this accordingly.
That said, I am also quite shocked by this specific lack of a basic freedom of expression.
But, again, it's their country and their law. If they don't like the way they are, they could try to change that. Countries do it from time to time. I think that's why US citizens have the right to bear firearms
Re:Now if only... (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably.
Then again, the US legal system condones punishments for modifying your own hardware in defiance of the DMCA that exceed what you'd get for assault or auto theft. That same system recently had the potential to lock some guy in prison for 55 years for the crime of 'computer intrusion' -- making it a crime on par with murder.
More telling perhaps, a big chunk of the US is constantly trying to pass legislation to make burning a particular piece of cloth illegal. Is that any less absurd than a law against spray-painting a picture?
I'm not saying I think the Thai law is sensible, but you don't have to go to Thailand to see "ass-backwards".
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You suppose? (Score:3, Funny)
Okay, now we're curious:
Enquiring minds must know! :-)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Bah!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Good question (Score:4, Informative)
As the American Embassy says to all staff visiting Thailand for the first time: If you find yourself in a bar chatting up a girl who is WAY out of your league, chances are it's a man.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
..and... (Score:5, Funny)
Lots slam OSS for being useless and buggy (Score:3, Insightful)
In my day, we called that kind of stuff flamebait.
You know, like how Apple sucks and everyone who owns a Mac is a faggot.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Does this mean that Zonk is going to lose some karma over this?
Seriously, I agree with you. To include that Thailand (or whomever) is not real OSS friendly on an article about YouTube makes about as much sense as including a budget revision for the VA on a gun ban bill.
Opps! Did I say that out loud?
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
Mod Parent Up! (-1, Flamebait) (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
child prostitution: yeah, yeah, so what?
free speech restrictions: yawn...
censorship: zzzzzzz...
Thailand says OSS is "useless and buggy": WHAT!!!! Those sons of bitches!!
Respect and Freedom? (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been to Thailand. It's a great place where the king is held in very high esteem. This isn't a tyranny cracking down on opposition, almost all Thais would be very shocked to see a spray-painted picture of the king. Try a stunt like that and you'll be lucky if the police gets you before the enraged mob does.
Now let's wait for the trolls to swarm in and claim that any culture that doesn
Re:Respect and Freedom? (Score:4, Insightful)
I realize that female circumcision is much different than banning YouTube, but I don't consider people "trolls" if they disagree with the Thai government's decision to try to control the public arena, just as I wouldn't consider people "trolls" if they criticized the current U.S. administration for practices they found offensive.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Respect and Freedom? (Score:5, Insightful)
As for smegma. It looks like you havn't looked it up very well. Smegma itself is hygenic. It is the accumulation of smegma by not washing it away at regular intervals that can cause problems. If males aren't learning how to wash their penises correctly, something is seriously wrong with their eduction, and replacing it with a medical procedure is bullshit.
Finally, you claim that uncircumcised penises look goofy? If anything it is circumcised penises that have an unnatural look. Besides, arguing for a medical procedure based on the looks of an organ that is mostly hidden is laughable.
Parent
Re:Respect and Freedom? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any people that would beat or kill you for insulting someone are not enlightened, cultural superiors. They simple zealous lunatics.
The real test would be their reaction to some Danish cartoons.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Depends how you view it - I'd argue that the cult of personality he has built around himself is totally fucking crazy, and not at all healthy for the nation. The military coup of the elected leader was headed by the head of the king's private council, while the coup happened it replaced television and radio broadcasting with images and pro-monarchy messages. Later, the king pledged his support to the military coup.
Also it's hard to support a guy who has m
Re:Respect and Freedom? (Score:4, Interesting)
You might have missed the news, but Thailand was overtaken by a military coup last year and is now being run as a military dictatorship. "Their own morality" is irrelevent, particularly when the dictator is a Muslim.
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, and that among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absoltue despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
There, go argue your bullshit with Jefferson, he'll kick you around the room.
Parent
Re:Respect and Freedom? (Score:4, Insightful)
And yes, we hold those things to be self-evident. That doesn't mean others have to as well, does it? Is there a place for diversity in your world of freedom and pursuit of happiness? Or can I only be free and pursue my happiness as long as I follow your code of ethics?
Parent
This just in... (Score:2, Funny)
Touchy (Score:5, Funny)
Breaking News.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok so it's censorship and we should all care as we are "free." However, that wasn't really my point. This is hardly news. What do you expect from countries like this. For a place like Thailand banning YouTube is hardly their worst crime. Let's take an example from a week ago that was in the news. Main Jailed for 10 Years for Insulting King [express.co.uk] -- ok and we care about them blocking YouTube? I think there's a tons of worse things they do. Blocking YouTube is probably making them more productive if anything. Not saying it's not wrong or outrageous.. but in comparison to other things that go on there.. it most certainly is.
Fucking monarchies (Score:5, Funny)
Let's show them what we and the Gimp think of them throwing people in prison for 10 years for vandalism.
Ministry of Truth??? (Score:3, Funny)
Why the archived version? (Score:3, Informative)
"When Google refused to remove the 'offending' clip the website was redirected to a different page"
Oh by the way I'm in Thailand right now and YouTube isn't redirecting anywhere - it's just failing. (ISP is TTTMaxnet.)
Re:Why the archived version? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Thais take this very seriously (Score:5, Informative)
However, there is an exception. In Thailand, you do not insult the King. I repeat, you do not insult the King.
If you do insult the King (yes, spraypainting a mustache on him is insulting), those always-smiling Thais will stop smiling, gouge your eyes out, rip you limb from limb, slit your throat from ear to ear, and rip out all of your internal organs. When the police arrive, they will help the mob, and everyone from the police to the ambulance driver to the attending physician to the coroner to the undertaker will all swear that you died of a sudden heart attack.
I am not kidding about this. Thais take their King very seriously.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Forced it's way into power (Score:4, Informative)
Thailand is a Constitutional Monarchy, but it is ruled by
a Military group. There have been dozens of bloodless coups
over the years.
There IS NO FORCING THEIR WAY TO POWER, the various Military
people take TURNS running the government. Hence the bloodless
coups. Pull your head out of your asses and learn about what
you speak about.
Thailand is always taking the 'conservative' position to help
impress other countries. Such is life in the real world.
It's Like Calling Your Sister a Slut... (Score:4, Insightful)
Should a governmental body have the right to censor material that a large majority of its population finds offensive? Should Germany be allowed to block Nazi hate sites? Should China be allowed to block porn sites? Should any country be able to block material that depicts or encourages actions illegal in that country?
I lived in Thailand for a year and though I have never seen or met the king, I helped teach English at a school he funded and have been on the palace grounds where he lived many times. I can attest that the pride and admiration they have for the king runs deep and this action by the government is the equivalent of punching the guy who called your sister a slut. It may be that the whole episode is forgotten in a few days or it may create a lifelong grudge, but action to defend honor must be taken. And if you don't think defending honor is worth punching someone in the face, you're not going to understand this move by the Thai government.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Also just because not everyone in the US blindly respects the same person doesn't mean that each individual doesn't have respect for some figure or another.
Re:It's Like Calling Your Sister a Slut... (Score:4, Insightful)
Should a governmental body have the right to censor material that a large majority of its population finds offensive?
No.
Should Germany be allowed to block Nazi hate sites?
No.
Should China be allowed to block porn sites?
No.
Should any country be able to block material that depicts or encourages actions illegal in that country?
No.
If you need any more clarifications of the concept of self-evident freedoms, just shout out.
but action to defend honor must be taken.
Remember that when someone punches *you* in the face.
Maybe a person's "honor" shouldn't be so fragile, or dependent on the opinion of a drunken man with a can of paint.
And if you don't think defending honor is worth punching someone in the face
I guess I don't. I guess I live in the 21st century. But you just keep banging those rocks together, Ugg.
And your sister is a slut. :)
Parent
A little perspective from an Ex-Pat (Score:5, Informative)
It's kind of like that a-hole Phelps character with his god-hates-fags rallies at soldier's funerals. Insulting the King in Thailand is that inflammatory. I told my (Thai) wife about this yesterday, and she couldn't sleep that night, and was trying to find this clip on YouTube in a righteous rage. (couldn't find it). It's hard for westerners to grasp the concept of a powerful person who is universally beloved, without cynicism.
I feel absolutely no sympathy with that Swiss idiot who spray-painted the King's picture. He's 50 years old, lived in Thailand for 10 years. He knew what he was doing. He got drunk, and decided to be 16 again. Imagine if a drunk vandal went around spraypainting the grave stone of your Grandfather.
In the end this will be a tempest in a tea-pot, as the king will most assuredly pardon the man, and he'll be kicked out of the country to go to back home. The king has publicly come out and said what a silly law the lesse-majesty law is, and how he is not above criticism, and how he welcomes people to tell him what they think.
However the law stands, because the Thai's they love them some King.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
How is it absurd? They are both physical representations of a human being. Vandalizing the grave stone, is not going to hurt your grandfather, but it will piss off your family. You just have to understand that in Thailand, they feel the King is everyone's grandfather.
Second of all, you suggest the correct thing to do: appeal to the law to punish the vandal. That's exactly what they're doing here, appealing to the law to punish the vandal. It just so happens that this law punishes a mor
Re:But is the under-age sex still available? (Score:4, Informative)
Lady boys... But mostly perverts who like the child sex slaves.
Parent