E-Passport In the Works 300
ExE122 writes "In an attempt to curb falsification of passports, the United States has placed an order for millions of embedded ID chips. 'The chips carry an encrypted digital photograph of the passport holder. The chip is designed to be read by a special device that will be used by U.S. government workers who check passports when travelers come through border crossings. The State Department began issuing what are being called e-passports to tourists last week and will gradually increase production. State Department spokeswoman Janelle Hironimus said existing passports will remain valid until they expire but, eventually, all U.S. passports — about 13 million will be issued in 2006 — will contain such chips.'"
10 years (Score:3, Interesting)
If anything, this will raise the value of existing non-RFID passports, since they are more easily modified to indentify someone else.
Americans traveling to other countries. (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, I went to New Mexico twice in the last 6 years. That's fairly often, I think.
Re:Americans traveling to other countries. (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, us backwards wierdo liberal faggy Europeans get 6 weeks holiday
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Well, we 'take' 2 weeks (or 1 week, or whatever) a year. We do not 'get' 2 weeks a year. Americans can arrange their vacation vs. work time quite easily. As a nation, though, our cultural habits come down to preferring about 2 weeks per year.
Wow, who pays for that?
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If I lived in the EU I would get 4 to 6 weeks of paid vacat
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Re:Americans traveling to other countries. (Score:4, Funny)
You say this like it's a bad thing. Employees need to stop worrying about their little personal lives and worry more about providing shareholder value. Not taking any vacation, working unpaid overtime, etc. are all great ways to achieve this. How about some volunteer work? Volunteer to work weekends, for no pay. Or volunteer with your spare time to do chores, like yardwork, for your boss so that he can concentrate on providing more shareholder value.
Won't somebody please think about the shareholders??!!
Re:Americans traveling to other countries. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Prefer?" I prefer quite a bit more time off. I would imagine most people do. The problem is, U.S. corporate behavior is geared toward maximizing profits at the expense of the employees and an imaginary work ethic that drives people into the ground and causes them to change jobs on an average of every two or three years and careers on an average of every 10 or 15 years. You ask, stupidly, who pays for Europeans' 6 weeks holiday -- obviously as a cultural norm the employer shells it out. It's a quality of life issue.
But please, don't insinuate that just because you're a driven workaholic with nothing better to do that the rest of us would 'prefer' that lifestyle. I think, given 6 weeks of guilt-free holiday, most Americans would take it gladly.
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Re:Americans traveling to other countries. (Score:4, Informative)
One of my clients is a developer company, based in Mexico City, but with offices in most of the vacation hot spots in the US (because they own high rises in all those cities). There were having issues with their ERM, because it was a fixit session it was scheduled between other trips, and I only had two days on site. Well that wouldn't have been an issue, if they didn't stop working everyday for 3 hours to have lunch and watch the World Cup.
I don't know what it is, but the way we work versus the way that work is done in Europe and Latin America, is hugely different. I like to relate, to the Super Market that was across the street from where I was staying in Amsterdam, they were open M-F 10am-5pm, for an American that is unfathomable, Europeans are used to it, and adept to it, and I did too (by adept I mean I mostly ate at restraunts that were open later in the evening) when I was there for 3 months on a project. But it's quite strange for someone who's last job involved making a 1am Taco Bell run during my 11pm - 11am shift.
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"The problem is, U.S. corporate behavior is geared toward maximizing profits at the expense of the employees and an imaginary work ethic that drives people into the ground"
Which clearly indicates you believe that U.S. Citizens are pushed against their will to work as much as they do, because the CEOs and other corporate bigwigs want to increase the amount in their already overfull pockets. Then you say...
"But please, don't insinuate that
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Sounds like you're either a workaholic, or you need a new job. I had 2 in my first job, 5 in my second job (state government; paid better than the private companies in the area were paying too!), and 3 in my third (current) job. And I've always been able to actually use that time. And in my current job, I get an additional 8 weeks off every 7 years. Not quite up to European standards, but much bet
Re:Americans traveling to other countries. (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you kidding me? "As a nation", we take what we can get. And all we can get is 2 weeks per year or less.
I don't think there's a man, woman or child alive that wouldn't want more than 2 weeks vacation. This is not a "cultural habit", this is just the dynamic of our employer/employee relationship. Employers want to ride their employees as hard as they can and employees are just doing all they can not to get fired.
Of course, us backwards wierdo liberal faggy Europeans get 6 weeks holiday.
Wow, who pays for that?
If the entire society accepts that this is normal, then no one pays for it.
Let's face it - the world works the way it does because we accept that the world works that way. If it worked differently, we'd accept that too. I mean, who's "paying" for the fact that you're sleeping 8 hours a day rather than working? You, and the rest of American society (at least to this point) has drawn the line at having at least enough time off every day to sleep. Nobody "pays" for that; that's just the way society has chosen to work. Could companies make more money if all of their employees worked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Sure. But you don't "pay" for something that never existed in the first place. That downtime is just downtime, not a debt that needs to be paid.
We Americans are overworked. We work more hours, on average, than any other nation in the world (yes, including places like Japan, which lets its employees have an average of 25 non-weekend days off per year). But it's not by and large because we want to, it's because we're demanded to and because employers have decided for us that this is the cultural norm. Someday, maybe we'll get in step with the rest of the world and realize that there are more important things in life than work.
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I disagree. I know a lot of people who don't even take their available 14 days/year of vacation, even though they're not at any risk of being fired if they did.
Actually, very few people in my line of w
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Out of the people who I've encountered who don't take their full 10 days (14 days? What country do you live in?), nearly all are concerned that either their work will pile up and overwhelm them on their return, or will get piggybacked onto their already overworked coworkers (and in return, they'll be picking up the slack for the coworkers.) Thus,
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This, of course, runs contrary to the common view that American workers are lazy and unproductive. However, there is an interesting catch. Because workers in the US tend to put in more hours than their European counterparts, the rankings change when you look at productivity per hour worked.
Norwegians lead the world with an output of $38 per hour worked last year. French workers were in second place, averaging $35 an hour, the report said. Belgians were third at $34, followed by Americans at $
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Germany is a modern industrial nation that has worked hard to overcome the disaster that was WWII. It was the first of the Axis nations to pay off its war debt, and has done all it could to counteract the influence of the National Socialist Party and all it did to the people of Europe.
The people of Germany suffered as much as the rest of Europe did (exclusive of the victims of the Holocaust) from the horrors of t
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This is true. In fact, I live in upstate NY and feel it would take a lifetime just to fully explore my own state let alone the rest of the coutry. There is a whole lot to do in the U.S. and not nearly enough time to do it in.
Re:Americans traveling to other countries. (Score:5, Funny)
oh, never mind.
passports soon required for mexico and canada (Score:2)
Renewable (Score:2)
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Also, it ignores the fact that all the Sept 11 terrorists had valid passports / drivers licenses. How exactly does this help us again?
WHY? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WHY? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:WHY? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:WHY? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Doesn't really sound like it. From the TFA:
Anti-skimming/eavesdropping measures (Score:5, Informative)
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Not quite that easy. (Score:2)
More importantly though, if they can pick your pocket, they can just steal your passport and then do anything with it that they want, so I think that's really not a grea
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Frankly, I'd be worried about a magstripe even. Why not use a 2D barcode, like DataMatrix? It'd speed up the process, not susceptable to interference, corruption or loss, and it's just as secure.
Technology is not a miracle cure, but they keep treating it as such. What'll happen if power goes down to their fancy RFID readers, cause power NEVER goes out at LAX...
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If the power goes down, they won't authenticate passports. Perhaps at the Mexican border, they'll stop anyone who looks Hispanic until the power returns. Perhaps at LAX, they'll stop anyone who speaks with a non-American accent (those who have American accents have either
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If it's done properly it would be harder to produce. Anyone can write to a mag-stripe, but the Chip and Pin system in the UK, for instance, is more secure.
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That'll be the one where the PIN terminals let everyone else in the queue watch you type in your number because the so called protective sides are so small or badly positioned as to be useless.
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Because Joe Public will see the govt are doing *something* and be happy. The fact that those of us with half a brain know it's a waste of time is irrelevent.
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It has TECHNOLOGY! The technology will solve all out problems! Next we can add encryption to the technology so that it will be even more technological! And because Americans can't even wrap their heads around evolution, there's no way this nation of idiots will figure out what a load of BS this is and demand that politicians stop wasting resources on pork like this and actually get something done!
Re:WHY? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I just agree with the comments that it's probably a more inefficient way to handle it than others.
What, in your opinion, would be more efficient? I actually have thought about it, and it seems like a reasonably good idea.
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RFID passports have foil covers (Score:2)
Completly uterly false (Score:2)
But if you had comparied to a bar-code tag (2D or 1D) then you would have been right : this bring nothing.
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Isn't the purpose of adding a photo within the hash forcing a visual check?
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It's to help the terrorists target Americans, adding fuel to the fire of the War on Terror. And once the encryption is broken, not only will they know there's an American in their midst, they'll also be able to identify the specific target from the photo.
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BECAUSE! (Score:3, Interesting)
Ah, but what if the 'Thief' doesn't want to so much steal your identity, as pick an American tourist out of a crowd of hundreds of other tourists? This isn't giving you a secure digital picture. It's painting a huge bulls-eye on your forehead...
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Seriously; even in most Western countries, the "average American" sticks out like a recently-hammered thumb; doubly so when they start talking.
Only a very small percentage of Americans will ever pass as a native in any other country except their own.
Already customs lines at SFO for this (Score:3, Interesting)
American Made (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do we always have to get everything from the Germans? (beer & cars for example) Why can't the government contract this out to good ol' American workers? Especially since it deals with National Security?
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Gee, that's funny -- GM (American) is the largest automaker in the world, and the largest supplier of autos domestically. InBev is the world's largest brewer, it's headquarters are in Belgium but it is a truly global company.
Because gool ol' American workers don't exist anymore. Actually, that's not quite right -- good ol' American manufacturing p
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Infineon has plants in Asia, North America, Europe, and Africa. They have representative offices in 42 states in the USA, as well as in many different countries around the globe. Why shouldn't they be allowed to bid for the project?
Infineon's USA plan
encrypted? (Score:5, Insightful)
But simply encrypting the message with a symmetric key (as seems indicated by the blurb) would be bad for security, because many people would have the key, and so it would provide a false sense of security.
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Scene at the customs office (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I blame it on the lack of logic today (Score:4, Interesting)
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More Lack of Logic (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, according to the TFA: The chips carry an encrypted digital photograph of the passport holder..
Remember everyone, just by going out in public you are letting the world know what you look like! Time to start investing in brown paper bags
You seem to be missing the whole point here. According to logic, it doesn't really matter what contents are being stored on this chip. It could be an encrypted random number for all anyone cares, since (as the GP correctly noted) the very existence of any such
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This seriously got mod'ed up?
Come
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That's called the CIA.
anti-pirate passports! (Score:3, Funny)
Heh heh (Score:5, Interesting)
And if we're already on the subject of the government, why are they spending all this money to make sure passports can't be faked, greencards can't be faked, etc., if there is absolutely positively nothing being done to stop the flood of immigrants, criminals, drugs, and terrorists that are crossing our totally unprotected borders into this country every day? Every time this issue comes up, idiots say it's racism. Sorry, it's not racism to stop people and things that shouldn't be here illegally from coming here illegally.
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Off topic: Funny how most anti-immigration crusaders seem to be either rustic yokels or recently naturalized citizens. We welcomed you into th
Renewed my passport last month (Score:2)
bomb makers can now target americans (Score:5, Funny)
They don't need to correctly talk to the passports only determine that they are american passports.
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This could potentially become a huge problem for Americans traveling overseas, especially considering that the Government advises Americans abroad to not advertise the fact, while at the same time, they're equipping us with radio beacons that scream "HEY! OVER HERE! THAT'S RIGHT! HERE! LOOK! AMERICAN! AMERICAN!"
US Department of State announcement (Score:4, Informative)
Been thinking about this one. (Score:3, Interesting)
Take a standard Credit Card sized plastic card.
Put a chip on it like credit cards use - not an RFID tag, just a simple chip that can store ONE piece of info.
That piece of data will be unique to that person, and is their ID in the system.
On the card we print a photograph, their name and date of birth.
When the card is presented at an appropriate terminal, a database lookup is done for the ID. The card reader then displays a "virtual" version of the card.
Visual inspection will allow the person doing the Identity Check to confirm the persons ID.
ID cards to be updated every 5 years, replacements for lost/stolen/damaged to be charged at cost, and be available within 2 working days, with designated places (like police stations) being able to print out temporary ID papers until replacement card arrives.
As long as downloads to terminals are encrypted, and the credentials of the operatives inputting data onto the system are checked, we have a secure system with no privacy concerns that SHOULD be cheap to implement.
Other systems, Passport Control etc could be tied to the database with your ID reference number becoming your Passport number - Give each person a pin number (or if you really insist use biometric information) and you have a bank/credit card that should also help prevent fraud.
Anyone see any holes in my plan?
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Yep. Reliance on a very large central database. What if the database goes down? What if the database gets hacked? With the very large number of people you would have to have entering data into the system, chances are one or more those people will allow unauthorized access into the system, either intentionally or unintentionally.
What if the person checking ID loses connectivity to the database?
Example: I want to steal $25,000 out of your account. I forge your passport, c
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Put more than one thinking caps on.
I have a chipped UK passport (Score:2, Informative)
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As (one of) the definitions of biometric is : A measurable, physical characteristic or personal behavioral trait used to recognize the identity, or verify the claimed identity, of an enrollee.
I
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From www.passport.gov.uk
"How will facial biometrics work? Facial recognition will map various features on the face, for example, the distances between eyes, nose, mouth and ears. The measurements will be digitally coded and held on an electronic chip secured in the passport page."
Your passport required a picture, right? Congradulations! You have been biometricized!
It's a revenue plot (Score:2, Insightful)
2) wait for major security hole to be found
3) come up with a fix
4) ???
5) PROFIT!!!
Step 4 is to make people who want the fix to pay for a replacement passport.
The e-voting-machine vendors are taking the same approach. Ditto many other technology vendors.
I don't see the problem here... (Score:3, Insightful)
Will it eventually be hacked/copied? Yes. Does that mean we throw up our hands in the air and stop trying? Taking a defeatist attitude gets us nowhere. When this one gets hacked, we'll add more forgery deterrents. Take at look at the US currency; its the same thing.
It is just one more tool we can use to keep pace/ahead with those that want to forge them.
Re:I don't see the problem here... (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as anti-counterfeiting measures, the 9/11 terrorists had valid passports and IDs, so how exactly would this prevent terrorism? If an immigration official lets his guard down because a person has an RFID passport, he may be ignoring other tip-offs that would alert him to suspicious activity. This would probably only really effect illegal immigration.
Again, no one is saying that we shouldn't increase security measures. But let's not claim that this is a panacea, or going to do something that is actually can't. Americans seem to have the belief that some simple technology will solve any problem we encounter. The reality is that we have to hire and train competent personnel in immigration and security. Mass surveillance, face recognition, gait recognition, etc. will not keep us safe from terrorism; motivated terrorists will always outsmart the machine or system. What we need is human intelligence, building contacts and infiltrating groups. These sorts of technological fixes are just to pacify jittery Americans into thinking that something is being done.
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The idea is that the easiest method of passport forgery is just to alter the picture. You nab my passport, stick you
The Main Reason is it's Faster (Score:5, Insightful)
The objective is to be able to process more people through customs faster and with more data captured as they get off ever-bigger airplanes.
This doesn't address a control point failure (customs) which is inevitable, but it looks good on paper and sounds really good.
FYI: Yes it's possible to store a picture and a fingerprint template on the contactless modules in question, but more likely it's storing a hash that looks the data up in a DB. Sending a picture file or a fingerprint template across the reader would be pretty slow.
And the obvious problem is... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Oh," says the clerk, "the connection's been down the whole afternoon."
It's not even the first time something like that happens. It's not often, but it does happen.
So for purchasing games or groceries, ok, I can just pull some banknotes out of the wallet. But it kinda scares me that I'd have to depend on something like that at an airport.
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FYI: Yes it's possible to store a picture and a fingerprint template on the contactless modules in question, but more likely it's storing a hash that looks the data up in a DB. Sending a picture file or a fingerprint template across the reader would be pretty slow.
Actually, they not only store the photograph on the chip, but they store a fairly large, high-quality photograph (~30KB). The reference data set used for testing implementations of the ICAO electronic passport is almost 50KB in size, total. T
Already hacked, even before rollout (Score:2, Informative)
As featured a couple of weeks ago in this article [wired.com] on Wired, these RFID chips have already been hacked. From TFA:
National ID and passport--fingerprint, PIN etc. (Score:2, Interesting)
Not just your appearance, but your fingerprints, iris pattern, voice patterns and probably eventually unique DNA markers will be necessary. And a good long PIN or passphrase.
Those predicted bar codes on the forehead and arm look pretty likely, too.
"I'm sorry officer, my USB port is down. Could you use my saliva?"
Missing the point (Score:2, Informative)
How it works in Germany (Score:3, Interesting)
In my opinion, the e-passport was largely introduced to secretly subsidize the biometrics sector: The interior minister responsible for the e-passport, Otto Schily, joined two biometrics companies this month
Source (german only, sorry): http://www.silicon.de/enid/cio/21505 [silicon.de]
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Because when they clone it, then figure out how to add their photo to the passport, they end up with a valid passport, in your name, with their photo on it.
That's how. Or, do you believe that a government program is going to make a completely secure technology?
Cheers
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Of course they are. But, how long before people can duplicate your passport, and then update it with a new picture? (Or steal the original, and update the photo)
I find it highly unlikely they will be able to create secure technology which won't be subjected to both of these things. Especially since they're rushing it out and haven't tested or proven the technology yet
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Who knows? That depends entirely on the encryption. Point is, you brought up the fact that some guy cloned a passport RFID chip as if it was somesort of evidence that the scheme had been partially cracked or something. Bitwise copying is a trivial acomplishment. It's like saying "they've already opened the door and walked into the bank, how long can it be before they've pilfered the safe?"
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Yes, also (Score:3, Funny)
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