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Alaa Has Been Detained
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon May 08, 2006 06:42 AM
from the behind-bars dept.
from the behind-bars dept.
ahmed saad writes "Alaa (read the slashdot interview) was detained yesterday for activism while in a protest to support Egyptian judges . He's one of the most well known Egyptian activists in human rights, free software (leading Egypt LUG) and free speech in Egypt and worldwide. The Egyptian regime is currently trying to suffocate any movements that are active against it's highly inhuman and dirty practices to keep holding power in Egypt yet are trying to fool the world about their support for democracy and free speech.
Please don't let that happen! Contact to the Egyptian embassy in your country and/or your country's embassy here in egypt, tell your congressmen and thanks in advance for your support!"
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Interviews: Egyptian Linux Advocates' Replies 539 comments
Alaa and his friends at Linux-Egypt put a lot of thought into answering your questions. Alaa wrote, "we felt there was much misinformation or lack of information about egypt while reading the comments so I kinda used each question to inject some extra info," which makes this Q&A worth reading for insight into Egyptian society even if you have no particular interest in Linux. Thanks, Alaa and Linux-Egypt.
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Word Replace (Score:3, Interesting)
Just replace 'Egyptian' with 'Bush' and 'Egypt' with 'America'.
Kinda creepy, how well it fits.
Re:This is why Bush retains power (Score:2, Funny)
Really, really pathetic.
Re:Word Replace (Score:2, Interesting)
Really? An American president is trying to eliminate discourse [wikipedia.org]? That's totally a new concept [crf-usa.org]. Surely the Bush Administration is biggest threat [wikipedia.org] to the constitution [tobyinkster.co.uk] in American [wikipedia.org] history.
Well at least we can get rid of this problem by voting [zdnet.com] Democrat [reason.com], right? After all, th
Re:Word Replace (Score:5, Insightful)
So save your invectives. Most of the people you're arguing with didn't like Clinton much either, but can at least recognize the lesser of two evils.
Parent
That's a little bit too much. (Score:2)
Honestly -- degrees, people. It's a matter of degrees.
Re:That's a little bit too much. (Score:2)
Re:That's a little bit too much. (Score:2)
Straw man argument. I'm comparing apples to apples. The Muslim Brotherhood -- the largest opposition group in Egypt -- is a banned party but is the largest political competitor to the President's Party at 20% of the seats in the last election with all the candiates running as independents.
Anyway, well fine. Just to be politically correct for you. As long as members of the Democratic / Libertarian / Green / Constitional / Prohibition / Reform /
Re:That's a little bit too much. (Score:2)
Re:That's a little bit too much. (Score:2)
Re:That's a little bit too much. (Score:3, Insightful)
You have to give him credit for trying. Without a real coup, you can't just march into the White House and announce that you're starting a dictatorship. It takes time, extreme nationalism, an "enemy" that we're always at war with, and the gradual erosion of rights in the name of security and patriotism. Bush and Mubarak aren't in the same position, but you might consider them of a common mind.
Amazing (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's do that word replace, shall we?
The Bush regime is currently trying to suffocate any movements that are active against it's highly inhuman and dirty practices to keep holding power in America yet are trying to fool the world about their support for democracy and free speech.
1) I see no attempts by the administration to "suffocate" those vocal against it. Seen the approval ratings lately? For that matter...are you being suffocated for this criticism?
2) I've yet to se
Re:Amazing (Score:2)
You forgot about the mercenaries planted in the press rooms?
Propaganda != suffocation.
You forgot about expert scientists being stifled just because they don't tow the party line?
Politics as usual. They all pick and choose who they listen to and who they endorse, especially as science is concerned. There have been plenty of experts ignored by every administration, ever. I don't consider that unusual or oppressive, just stupid.
Remember when the administration was casting the
Re:Amazing (Score:2)
Actually, no. Historically, the administration has ignored any scientific reports it didn't want to support. Bush has taken the unusual step of having the scientists who disagree with his point of view replaced by those who are willing to change their conclus
I call bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny, that, liberals and Europe want intervention in places like Darfur and Iran but when it came to US securing itself, it was somehow unjustified, even though Saddam was a genocidal maniac and just as ruthless as anyone else in the region.
Iraq has never attacked America. Saddam's regime was no threat whatsoever to Americans. If you're going to try to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq on humanitarian grounds, then go ahead and do so, but in case you haven't been reading the papers, the total number of WMDs (the ostensible reason we attacked in the first place) discovered in Iraq remains zero.
Civil liberties in America are no different today than they were pre-9/11.
Nice astroturfing, but all a reasonable person need do to know just how many of their 'inalienable' rights have been stripped away by the current administration is to read it [rickieleejones.com], your smokescreening notwithstanding.
Parent
Re:I call bullshit. (Score:4, Informative)
Unless you count continued attempts to shoot down US planes patrolling the UN-sanctioned no-fly zone. Or the continued development of weapons that violated UN restrictions in terms of range. Then there's the financial support for the families of suicide bombers...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the USA PATRIOT act and other sorts of legislature. It makes me sick that, at least in the initial bill, only 1 (one) person voted against it. But Saddam was far from a downtrodden lamb.
Parent
Re:I call bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
The no-fly zones were illegal creations of the U.S. and Great Britain [prospect.org]; a sovereign nation shooting at hostile aircraft that violate its airspace is not creating a threat to the violating nation.
Yes, Saddam was a bad guy. That does not mean that anything done to oppose him therefore automatically becomes legal, ethical, or smart.
Parent
Re:I call bullshit. (Score:2)
Saddam did not have terrorist networks operating in the US. Saddam was the defiant leader of a country that was falling to pieces and only bound together by a strong and ruthless government. Saddam was a definate thr
None of those are threats to us. (Score:5, Insightful)
How does trying to shoot our military planes out of the sky of their territory threaten the people of the US? Not that we didn't have really good reasons for the no-fly zone and not that Iraq is some sort of innocent victim, but how does standing up for the defense of their own territory count? Any threat that posed would be eliminated by not being there.
Or the continued development of weapons that violated UN restrictions in terms of range.
The al-Samoud II missile only had a range of 183 km. [bbc.co.uk] This isn't enough to even reach Israel or Europe, much less the US and they were thus not enough to count as a threat to the US.
Then there's the financial support for the families of suicide bombers...
This aid was provided exclusively to Palestinian suicide bombers, and not to Al Qaeda or any other terrorist movement. In general, Saddam was wary of religious zealots as he wasn't a very dedicated Muslim himself (despite peppering his speech with religious phraseology post Gulf War) but saw the Palestinian movement as both a movement that posed no threat to him and a good way to earn political capital with other Arab neighbors. This was a threat to Israel and not the US.
But Saddam was far from a downtrodden lamb.
Saddam was a bad guy, but he was hardly a threat to the US. Heck, he was barely a threat to Israel which was the enemy within closest striking distance and provided most of that threat by easing the burdens left to their families by suicide bombers.
If we were looking to take on actual threats capable of delivering a nuclear attack on the US, topple a cruel and sadistic tyrant, and damn the consequences internationally, then why is Kim Jong-Il still in power? Why the paper tiger instead of the guy that has missles capable of reaching the US -- the guy that has nuclear warheads? Even the argument of "saving the Iraqis" pales compared to the intimidation, brainwashing, and malnourishment that the North Koreans are suffering.
Parent
Re:None of those are threats to us. (Score:4, Insightful)
Question (probably rhetorical), meet answer. We didn't attack North Korea because North Korea is actually scary. Hell, it's the same reason we haven't done anything to Iran, who is far more scary and far more of a threat to us than Iraq ever was. Not even our delusional administration could convince themselves that invading Iran was a good idea.
No, we invaded Iraq because it wasn't a serious threat. It was a convenient target. Much like the intelligence that said Iraq had WMD -- the surest sign this wasn't true being our willingness to invade -- all of our stated reasons for invading are false.
Parent
Re:I call bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps because the newspapers only print stories that promote their own agenda.
Oh...you mean like Fox News [outfoxed.org]?
WMD actually have been found in Iraq as well as the intent to manufacture them.
Liar. Cite proof of this or admit your lie.
Ties to Al Qaeda have also been found.
See response to above.
BUt I doubt the media is trumpeting that much.
If WMDs were actually found in Iraq (or ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda were discovered), do you really think the current administration would spare any expense 'trumpeting' this information? And seeing how the new White House Press Secretary, Tony Snow, was a former White House news anchor [newshounds.us], your cute little fantasy about the 'liberal media' keeping the American public in the dark to promote 'their agenda' is revealed as the bullshit right-wing propaganda it is.
I could respond to the rest of your 'points' in the same manner, but this is already getting too long, and I don't feel like wading through two more paragraphs of non-sequeturs, ad homenim attacks, and outright lies. Take your astroturfing elsewhere...most readers here are smart enough to not watch Fox News.
Parent
Re:I call bullshit. (Score:2)
[Fox News] is hardly a bastion of Conservative thought.
What a joke. Especially since the bias has been admitted [slate.com] by Fox itself.
But perhaps you're right...perhaps I should peruse Powerline, Opinion Journal, American Spectator or National Review. As I am a bit short on time, could you please provide links to articles in said blogs and magazines reporting the discovery of WMDs in Iraq or proof of links between Saddam and Al Qaeda?
After all, these publications couldn't possibly be muzzled by the 'liberal media
I call you naive (Score:3, Insightful)
So because a news organiziation admits bias, that automatically moots all their points?
In a word, yes.
A news organization that is biased is no longer objective, and is therefore worth much less than an unbiased news source. Fox News is demonstrably biased, so much so that their 'news' is worthless.
Check here [outfoxed.org] to see just how much Rupert Murdoch has prostituted his 'news' program in the service of his right-wing ideology.
Re:I call you naive (Score:2)
Wow...all those words, and you managed to say absolutely nothing. You do know that the White House Press Secretary position has already been filled, right?
If you actually watched OutFOXed [outfoxed.org], you wouldn't bother trying to maintain that FOX News is capable of generating an unbiased story.
Here's a downloadable version (Part 1 [question911.com] Part 2 [question911.com]). Watch it and get back to me...and then try to tell me that my language regarding Rupert Murdoch was inappropriate.
(P.S. If your opponent has truly 'lost', then you shouldn't hav
Re:I call you naive (Score:2)
Our other measure found that Fox News' Special Report is the most centrist.
What a joke. This sentence alone shows the worthlessness of this 'study'.
Re:I call bullshit. (Score:2)
After a huge effort with teams of experts and complete freedom to inspect sites and empty out filing cabinets, this is what we found:
The Duelfer Report [cia.gov]
>Iraq harbored terrorists and in fact supported the 9/11 attacks.
President Bush says differently. On September 18 2003 he told reports in DC "We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks" [bbc.co.uk]. Do you disbelieve the President?
If you disbelie
Re:Word Replace (Score:2)
A couple weeks ago the "miss utility" folks came out and marked where all the fiber optic lines are buried near where I work. The water company wanted to install a new water main without breaking anything.
I want a better Internet link, so I printed a couple satellite pictures off google and went out with a clipboard and pen to mark down where they were.
So here I am, an overweight white guy walking down a public street making notations
You hit the nail on the head, bud. (Score:2)
Now THAT, I can agree with. So, when do we invade Israel and Saudi Arabia?
Re:Word Replace (Score:2)
Did anyone catch this? It's always BUSH's policies when something marginally good happens anywhere, for any reason. If anything bad happens, it's always because of the UN or the evil media (that should be replaced by government-controlled media to "go over the heads" of the American people, as Bush so frankly put it).
It's really amazing to see the angry neocons act as though Bush is a god deserving of everyone's endless affection. They even believe tha
Re:Word Replace (Score:2)
This is what big government does (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is what big government does (Score:5, Insightful)
I would bet that the governments of the western, industrialized nations, including most of Europe, The US and Canada, Australia and Japan, are "bigger" than Egypts' in any sense you can think of ( budget, tax revenue, number of employees, number of laws, etc. ). However, because their representatives are elected and the government employees consider themselves servants instead of power brokers, the "big governments" in those countries aren't locking up political prisoners.
I agree that locking up political prisoners is bad, but you are attacking the wrong philosophy here. Facism and a police state is the problem, not "big government".
Parent
Police Power Risks (Score:2)
Re:Police Power Risks (Score:5, Informative)
I don't believe that the Patriot Act is truly trying to usher in a fascist state, but I can see where a later administration could really abuse it.
You might want to check out the following links:
Parent
Re:Police Power Risks (Score:2)
Ah, the sweet smell of platitudinous nonsense. I can see the police state growing already within the dank corners of, erm, the Social Security Administration, can't you? And NOAA! Oooh, wait, can't you hear the jack boots in Americorps?
Re:This is what big government does (Score:4, Insightful)
If you look at the history of the US representative government (specifically the Legislative and Administrative branches) since, say, the New Deal era, you will see that those elected representatives most certainly consider themselves anything but servants of the people who elected them and pay their salary. Instead, they peddle influence and contracts to the highest bidder (why do you think Porter Goss really retired? The current defense contract scandal/inquiry touches many of your alleged 'servants,' perhaps it even touches him?).
Big Government, Western style, is nothing more than legalized racketeering.
YMMV. HTH. HAND.
--
This sig intentionally left blank
Parent
There are always exceptions to the rule (Score:2)
And we do have a problem with "power brokers" in the US. The judiciary, the FCC, the FTC and other "high-level bureaucrats" frequently interject themselves into areas where they have no business. They just aren't a
Traditions of liberalsim (Score:2)
It's not strong enough to help, but there's a tradition within Islamic practice of disapproving of absolute government. First, the Quran requires things like due process and trials(*). Second, it's considered blasphemous for a mere human to claim absolute power. Coronation rituals used to include a crowd shouting "Sultan, be not proud, for God is greater than you!". (Don't
Re:This is what big government does (Score:2)
Re:This is what big government does (Score:5, Interesting)
I expect by 'all other big government' you meant Market Liberalism / Capitalism? Because the government sector in the US can compete with pretty much anything when it comes to size. How's your military? NSA/CIA/FBI etc? NASA? Research programs at universities? Medicare? Public Infrastructure... etc
Where do you think the US would be today without its socialist(ie government-funded) support of research through the universities? Or the space-program? Small-state advocates never give the government credit for what it does, and have done. I mean, seriously, barring Bell Labs (which basically was goverment anyways) have the all-glory no-guts private industry ever made any usefull discoveries in any way whatsover without goverment involvment? No?
So, my point is, how(who) you elect/choose your government (or not) is important when it comes to personal freedom. How you run your economy is not. All hyper-capatilistic projects so far have failed (see the world-bank, South America, Africa) (but still Americans advocate that other countries should use systems themselves refuse to adapt).
Parent
Oddly enough... (Score:2)
Re:This is what big government does (Score:2)
China is a communist state.
The USSR was a communist state.
N Korea is a communist state.
This is what happens when communism is applied in the real world. These places are real.
What you're talking about is how communism works in a book. Not in the real world. In a book.
These places are not ideal communist states, as happens in your fantasies
Re:This is what big government does (Score:2)
China might stop calling themselves communist soon, which should be interesting to watch, but for decades a billion Chinese agreed "this is communism
Re:This is what big government does (Score:2)
Of course, in order to abandon it they'll have some explaining to do, which will be entertaining to watch. Will it be "communism was never the permanent goal of the party" or "no, really, this capitalism is what Mar
London Egyptian Embassy contacted (Score:3, Funny)
Freedoms in other countries (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll skip the obvious one by just saying "Godwin's Law", you know what I mean. In the case of Iraq, for the first war when one country invades another and threatent others you can nolonger say it's an internal matter. As for the second Iraq war, you know the first war never realy ended. We were still sending planes over Iraq, still occasionaly attacking their SAM batteries and enforcing UN sanctions. People were still dying, and that situation couldn't go on forever. Again, it wasn't an internal issue regardless of what you might think about how things turned out doing nothing wasn't an option and don't believe those who say otherwise. At least if you disagree with what was done (it was completely screwed up after all), say what you think should have been done instead and don't dodge the issue.
Opression within a country inevitably has knock-on effects beyond the borders of that country. How to treat refugees? Do you extradite people who are criminals in their own country even though their 'crimes' aren't punishable in your own? What about your own companies doing business over there? What about the freedoms of your own reporters in that country? Toes are going to be stepped on, whatever you do and if the situation does spill over into violence who do you side with? Perhaps the 'terrorists' in that country have at least some legitimate complaints.
Saying "It's just their culture" also doesn't wash, the Egyptian government is highly un-islamic. They aren't even operating uder their own normal 'laws of the land'. The government has been operating using emergency laws for decades. What emergency? It's one of the government's own making!
It is our business. That doesn't mean we should invade now, or any such rubbish. It means we (I'm British) do have freedoms and rights. We can make our views known to the Egyptian Embassy. We can write letters to our democratic representatives. We can even write to the newspapers in our country, or just blog about our opinions and write about them here. Expressing our opinions can and does make a difference. Egypt in particular is highly dependent on wester tourism (I've been there for buisness and on holiday myself), and can't afford too much negative press especialy in the wake of the bombings. We can make a difference.
Simon Hibbs
Re:Allah has been detained?! (Score:3, Funny)
There is no god but Allah, and Fat Tony Varisco is his cellmate!
Re:Western Arrogance (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting. Would you have applied that to the Holocaust as well, respecting Germany's "right to its culture"? (Yeah, yeah, Godwin's Law; it's still a legitimate question.)
Should northern states have applied that to the Jim Crow South, respecting its "right" to a culture of rascism and segrega
Re:Western Arrogance (Score:4, Interesting)
You and your Chinese friend may make all of the sacrifices you want, but don't make them for me. Only through your own arrogance can you force others to make the same sacrifices when they do not wish to. What makes a practice "inhuman and dirty" is the assumption that some elses viewpoint is not valid -- notice that in this forum, you're allowed to espouse your view without censorship, whereas, in BlackRookSix's homeland, you can't.
States and societies don't have rights, individuals do. Each Egyption has a right to his or her culture, and respecting that right is the foundation for classical liberal "Western" views. Ignoring or suppressing dissent because "its not our culture" is making the stupid mistake that "our culture is fundamentally right" -- human beings are imperfect and so is anything, including the state, composed of them. American's also make this mistake, but the ability of the government to force it upon anyone is limited by the Constitution (when it is obeyed). Whether or not classical liberal views should be spread by force, thats debatable -- were we to successfully invade Egypt or China or many other nations, there are definitely some people -- specifically their large numbers of political prisonsers -- that should be freed. Of course, for the US government to take such a stance given policies like the Gitmo Concentration Camp* and extraordinary rendition would be quite hypocritical.
Legitimate government exists to allow each individual to act as morally as possible while minimizing the limitation on any else's ability to make moral choices. No government succeeds at this (they're imperfect) and governments like China and Egypt do not even make the attempt. Egyptian and Chinese cultures could thrive just as well in a ideal, western style democracy because the people would be allowed to adopt whatever culture they choose, just not force it on their neighbor.
"Dangerous people." *Shudder* I don't know that, you don't know that and BlackRookSix doesn't know that, either. The only way to know someone is dangerous is if they attempt to materially harm someone. Voicing your dissent is the exact opposite, its an attempt to change people's minds without harming them.
--sabre86
*Yes, it is a concentration camp.
Parent
Re:Western Arrogance (Score:2)
Great post.
The powers of the American government are limited not by the Constitution, but by the willingness of the people of the US to defend the Constitution. Unfortunately, there aren't many people who seem to be willing to defend the Constitution, and so the US government seems to have almost limitless power, especially the executive branch.
Oh, well. So it goes.
Great argument (Score:3, Interesting)
Since I agree on all your points, I'll just reiterate my support for your main one: "States and societies don't have rights, individuals do". A state without people does not exist. A society without people does not exist. As a result, it is ludicrous to argue that actions designed to save the state while sacrificing individuals is anything but tyranny designed to satisfy a small subgroup of people.
I've had a number of discussion with various chines